There is nothing childish in speaking the truth and it is not fantasizing as you say when i am quoting scripture to support my arguments . I suggest practicing exegesis when studying Gods word, rather than eisegesis- which is evident by your posting on this forum and your continued pattern of isolating verses.
Does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 Teach Jesus Will Return With Dead Saints Now With Him In Heaven?
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Actually, I'm not. What you can't find in the Bible is ANY mention of "soul sleep". So you HAVE TO imagine that any mention of "sleep" in regards to a dead person MEANS the soul is sleeping.
Jesus used the word "dead" regarding Lazarus in John 11 as a euphemism for physical death. He was NOT speaking of Lazarus' soul.
Lie. I don't ignore verses. I address them.
Just get over it already. Rev 20:10 proves that souls will exist day and night for ever and ever.
You need some explaining. God is ETERNAL. No beginning and no ending. Man HAS a beginning, but will have NO ending. That's everlasting life.
Well, you just don't understand clear words then. Gen 2:7 says nothing different than what I believe.
Does the verse say that God DOES annihilate souls? No, it doesn't. It says He CAN. Not that He does.
Jesus used the word "dead" regarding Lazarus in John 11 as a euphemism for physical death. He was NOT speaking of Lazarus' soul.
Lie. I don't ignore verses. I address them.
Just get over it already. Rev 20:10 proves that souls will exist day and night for ever and ever.
You need some explaining. God is ETERNAL. No beginning and no ending. Man HAS a beginning, but will have NO ending. That's everlasting life.
Well, you just don't understand clear words then. Gen 2:7 says nothing different than what I believe.
Does the verse say that God DOES annihilate souls? No, it doesn't. It says He CAN. Not that He does.
I have discovered by being on these forums that the majority prefer to hold to the false doctrine theyve been taught, rather than like the Bereans studying the scriptures for themselves to see if what theyve been taught aligns with Gods Word.
I am now leaving this forum and will not respond further.
I am now leaving this forum and will not respond further.
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How do you see it?[/QUOTE]
Short story, (as short as possible)
I see the return of Christ as the 'ending of an age', (sunmoonstarsgodark) and I take a hint from 'flesh and blood cannot inherit' and Heaven is basically coming to set up permanent house on earth. We are also told that 'And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly' and I believe that means everyone will.
Another reason I believe all will be in heavenly bodies is because at the end of the 1000 years when Judgment comes there should be no 'excuse' for why you are evil. You are in a body that doesn't age, doesn't die, doesn't have mental, emotional or physical issues and it is the SPIRIT/SOUL of that person that is either GOOD or BAD. No one could blame their circumstances on GOD not being fair and just.
ANGELS are coming with the Lord and GOD really doesn't mixing. STRANGE flesh He calls it. We know John was talking with an angel and the angels said 'he was his brethren and of the prophets' proving men in heaven as angels. So I think that is another reason for the spiritual bodies eliminating all those issues before they happen. We have heavenly bodies and heaven is here!
We wont be 'a little lower' anymore we also know this because we will be judging them. Angels don't take or give in marriage or die, so no kids, no death, for the Lords day. ALL men die once and judgment. So it all has to end at the same time. And we have to remember there is a set number of people.
I believe there are those who were given an opportunity to hear truth and those who weren't. Those who did and didn't rise to judgment in lake of fire. Those who didn't, will rise from the grave and receive their new body when Christ returns to spend the 1000 years learning (these being the 'dead who don't live for the 1000 years' as in NOT YET SAVED/not yet condemned to the lake of fire crowd.
Simple look,
1) The judged to death - to remain dead in their graves, rise up to be judged at the GWT lake of fire (non believer by choice, synagogue of Satan, fallen angels) at the end of millennium
2) The 'nations' aka 'raised from the grave' - didn't find salvation in Christ/the never heard truth group here NOT because they CHOSE poorly but never had a choice - maybe part of second resurrect or second death depending on how well the Lords Day goes. Either the preaching will give them dry bones life or they will perish
3) The called and chosen - passed through death and on to the Father and returned with Christ now JOINED with the ALIVE and remaining 'caught up' to that group WHO will rule and reign for the 1000 years
The nations - the newly dead and the long dead raised in 'heavenly bodies' (no more murder rapes thefts etc) to learn Gods truth and discipline. In the very beginning all knees will bow but by the end of the 1000 years even with Christ- the Head and the Body ruling, when Satan is let out, the hearts of the children will for the last time be given to their fathers.
WHEN these go into the lake of fire, it isn't in a body that just easily 'perishes'. Spiritual bodies are incorruptible. You can bet that death is a death you and I can't imagine at this time. God says He will recompense.
Think about this. Those being judged to death MUST HAVE WRITTEN BY THEIR NAMES EVIL DEEDS.
Who do you believe those 'evil deeds' come upon? US.
Have you not yet realized that though SOME of the things that happen to us are chastisement to get ourselves back on the narrow path
but some of those evil things we have received will be USED BY GOD in condemning them to death. That means when these evil things come upon you, Gods work is being done and judgment day, and as this life is oh so temporary, something we are just 'partakers' in for a short time. FREE WILL has its consequences but with the knowledge of GOD life is so much easier.
How happy the LORD must be when one suffers in well doing. There is no questioning what is going on and there is the knowledge what comes on the back side more than makes up for it, and that is forever....
We stand in the power and wisdom of GOD. Knowing what they don't know. Seeing the truth taking place and finding the joy and peace even in this most temp situation THE only time in eternity in which we will ever be able to serve as we do in this age. ONCE it is gone there is no coming back to do it better.
SCRIPTURES
1 Corinth 15:50 This now I say, brothers that flesh and blood kingdom of God to inherit not is able nor the decay the immortality does inherit
Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and He that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Short story, (as short as possible)
I see the return of Christ as the 'ending of an age', (sunmoonstarsgodark) and I take a hint from 'flesh and blood cannot inherit' and Heaven is basically coming to set up permanent house on earth. We are also told that 'And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly' and I believe that means everyone will.
Another reason I believe all will be in heavenly bodies is because at the end of the 1000 years when Judgment comes there should be no 'excuse' for why you are evil. You are in a body that doesn't age, doesn't die, doesn't have mental, emotional or physical issues and it is the SPIRIT/SOUL of that person that is either GOOD or BAD. No one could blame their circumstances on GOD not being fair and just.
ANGELS are coming with the Lord and GOD really doesn't mixing. STRANGE flesh He calls it. We know John was talking with an angel and the angels said 'he was his brethren and of the prophets' proving men in heaven as angels. So I think that is another reason for the spiritual bodies eliminating all those issues before they happen. We have heavenly bodies and heaven is here!
We wont be 'a little lower' anymore we also know this because we will be judging them. Angels don't take or give in marriage or die, so no kids, no death, for the Lords day. ALL men die once and judgment. So it all has to end at the same time. And we have to remember there is a set number of people.
I believe there are those who were given an opportunity to hear truth and those who weren't. Those who did and didn't rise to judgment in lake of fire. Those who didn't, will rise from the grave and receive their new body when Christ returns to spend the 1000 years learning (these being the 'dead who don't live for the 1000 years' as in NOT YET SAVED/not yet condemned to the lake of fire crowd.
Simple look,
1) The judged to death - to remain dead in their graves, rise up to be judged at the GWT lake of fire (non believer by choice, synagogue of Satan, fallen angels) at the end of millennium
2) The 'nations' aka 'raised from the grave' - didn't find salvation in Christ/the never heard truth group here NOT because they CHOSE poorly but never had a choice - maybe part of second resurrect or second death depending on how well the Lords Day goes. Either the preaching will give them dry bones life or they will perish
3) The called and chosen - passed through death and on to the Father and returned with Christ now JOINED with the ALIVE and remaining 'caught up' to that group WHO will rule and reign for the 1000 years
The nations - the newly dead and the long dead raised in 'heavenly bodies' (no more murder rapes thefts etc) to learn Gods truth and discipline. In the very beginning all knees will bow but by the end of the 1000 years even with Christ- the Head and the Body ruling, when Satan is let out, the hearts of the children will for the last time be given to their fathers.
WHEN these go into the lake of fire, it isn't in a body that just easily 'perishes'. Spiritual bodies are incorruptible. You can bet that death is a death you and I can't imagine at this time. God says He will recompense.
Think about this. Those being judged to death MUST HAVE WRITTEN BY THEIR NAMES EVIL DEEDS.
Who do you believe those 'evil deeds' come upon? US.
Have you not yet realized that though SOME of the things that happen to us are chastisement to get ourselves back on the narrow path
but some of those evil things we have received will be USED BY GOD in condemning them to death. That means when these evil things come upon you, Gods work is being done and judgment day, and as this life is oh so temporary, something we are just 'partakers' in for a short time. FREE WILL has its consequences but with the knowledge of GOD life is so much easier.
How happy the LORD must be when one suffers in well doing. There is no questioning what is going on and there is the knowledge what comes on the back side more than makes up for it, and that is forever....
We stand in the power and wisdom of GOD. Knowing what they don't know. Seeing the truth taking place and finding the joy and peace even in this most temp situation THE only time in eternity in which we will ever be able to serve as we do in this age. ONCE it is gone there is no coming back to do it better.
SCRIPTURES
1 Corinth 15:50 This now I say, brothers that flesh and blood kingdom of God to inherit not is able nor the decay the immortality does inherit
Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and He that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
I asked:
"How do you see it?"
Do you mean "everyone" as in both the saved and the unsaved?
I believe the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10) occurs when King Jesus returns at the Second Advent. All believers since Adam on will receive their reward, if any. Then, all believers in their glorified bodies will serve in the King's reign. Some of the reward will be one's position in the King's kingdom.
Not sure what you mean. Rev 19 has all the dead saints in heaven accompanying the King for the Second Advent. 1 Thess 4 clearly says that the dead with come with Christ and meet the living in the air.
Titus 2:11 says the grace of God offers salvation to everyone.
All believers throughout history will receive a glorified body at the Second Advent and serve in the 1,000 year kingdom. The subjects of this kingdom are all unbelievers who survived the Tribulation. I doubt that any of them will place their faith in Christ because of their extreme resentment for being held accountable for the spirit of the law, rather than just the letter of the law.
And these same people are described in Revelation as refusing to repent even as God's wrath rains down on them. This will be a hostile crowd. And Rev 20 shows it in the fact that at the end of the reign, there will be a global rebellion against Christ.
Seems you have some Calvinism in you.
I believe Titus 2:11 and Rom 1:19-20 show that no one will have the excuse that they "never heard the gospel" or "never had a chance to believe". As to #1, I don't believe in soul sleep. At physical death, all souls go immediately to the presence of God or Hades. No sleeping in graves.
Since there will be bodily resurrection of all unbelievers, I believe it will be their earthly body. And that will surely be destroyed in the lake of fire, leaving the soul, which is immaterial, to be tormented "day and night for ever and ever". Rev 20:10.
Are you referring to the book of deeds in Rev 20? I believe unbelievers will be judged according to their good deeds, not evil, even though any deed from the flesh stinks to God (Isa 64:6).
Jesus made some interesting comments about being "more bearable" for the people of Sodom and Gomorrha than for citizens in His day in Israel. Matt 12:10, 11:22. My guess is that based on the deeds in the books will determine just how "bearable" it will be for each of them. iow, the evil and violent people will experience LESS bearable conditions, while the moral types will expereince MORE bearable conditions.
Absolutely. 1 Peter and Heb 12. Divine discipline.
[QUOTEbut some of those evil things we have received will be USED BY GOD in condemning them to death. That means when these evil things come upon you, Gods work is being done and judgment day, and as this life is oh so temporary, something we are just 'partakers' in for a short time. FREE WILL has its consequences but with the knowledge of GOD life is so much easier. [/QUOTE]
Interesting idea.
"How do you see it?"
Do you mean "everyone" as in both the saved and the unsaved?
I believe the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10) occurs when King Jesus returns at the Second Advent. All believers since Adam on will receive their reward, if any. Then, all believers in their glorified bodies will serve in the King's reign. Some of the reward will be one's position in the King's kingdom.
Not sure what you mean. Rev 19 has all the dead saints in heaven accompanying the King for the Second Advent. 1 Thess 4 clearly says that the dead with come with Christ and meet the living in the air.
Titus 2:11 says the grace of God offers salvation to everyone.
All believers throughout history will receive a glorified body at the Second Advent and serve in the 1,000 year kingdom. The subjects of this kingdom are all unbelievers who survived the Tribulation. I doubt that any of them will place their faith in Christ because of their extreme resentment for being held accountable for the spirit of the law, rather than just the letter of the law.
And these same people are described in Revelation as refusing to repent even as God's wrath rains down on them. This will be a hostile crowd. And Rev 20 shows it in the fact that at the end of the reign, there will be a global rebellion against Christ.
Seems you have some Calvinism in you.
I believe Titus 2:11 and Rom 1:19-20 show that no one will have the excuse that they "never heard the gospel" or "never had a chance to believe". As to #1, I don't believe in soul sleep. At physical death, all souls go immediately to the presence of God or Hades. No sleeping in graves.Since there will be bodily resurrection of all unbelievers, I believe it will be their earthly body. And that will surely be destroyed in the lake of fire, leaving the soul, which is immaterial, to be tormented "day and night for ever and ever". Rev 20:10.
Are you referring to the book of deeds in Rev 20? I believe unbelievers will be judged according to their good deeds, not evil, even though any deed from the flesh stinks to God (Isa 64:6).
Jesus made some interesting comments about being "more bearable" for the people of Sodom and Gomorrha than for citizens in His day in Israel. Matt 12:10, 11:22. My guess is that based on the deeds in the books will determine just how "bearable" it will be for each of them. iow, the evil and violent people will experience LESS bearable conditions, while the moral types will expereince MORE bearable conditions.
Absolutely. 1 Peter and Heb 12. Divine discipline.
[QUOTEbut some of those evil things we have received will be USED BY GOD in condemning them to death. That means when these evil things come upon you, Gods work is being done and judgment day, and as this life is oh so temporary, something we are just 'partakers' in for a short time. FREE WILL has its consequences but with the knowledge of GOD life is so much easier. [/QUOTE]
Interesting idea.
It won't feel very quick to them.
It is a scary thing to know will happen to you.
That isn't evidence. It's human reasoning which is irrelevant. Scripture says unsaved will not see life and says they will be destroyed. No amount of flawed reasoning changes what the bible says.
John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
"shall not see life" means will not be alive.
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .
Being destroyed means they are Annihilated.
Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.
This is just a small offering of what the bible actually teaches on this subject.
It is a scary thing to know will happen to you.
That isn't evidence. It's human reasoning which is irrelevant. Scripture says unsaved will not see life and says they will be destroyed. No amount of flawed reasoning changes what the bible says.
John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
"shall not see life" means will not be alive.
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .
Being destroyed means they are Annihilated.
Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.
This is just a small offering of what the bible actually teaches on this subject.
Another problem with this is that it contraduicts scripture.
You claim the body is burned in the lake of fire but the soul remains to be tortured but scripture says something else:
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .
Being destroyed means both body and soul are Annihilated.
Yes, I believe the 'flesh' age has ended and the beginnings of the spiritual one begins. I don't believe everyone receives immortality though. Important distinction
YES, that is absolutely true. I agree 100 percent, I just believe there is more to the story...
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;
Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for My sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of Me and of My words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when He cometh in the glory of His Father with the HOLY ANGELS
Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of
His glory:
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
1Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
Matthew 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Hence the MILLENNIUM
Agreed
I am not able to believe this because we are told
1Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
YES, that is absolutely true. I agree 100 percent, I just believe there is more to the story...
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;
Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for My sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of Me and of My words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when He cometh in the glory of His Father with the HOLY ANGELS
Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of
His glory:
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
1Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
Matthew 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Hence the MILLENNIUM
Agreed
I am not able to believe this because we are told
1Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
So, you are saying Christ ascended right after speaking to Mary, then returned quickly to meet the disciples and remain for 40 days and then another ascension? So an ascension no one saw, then one they all saw?
Never have heard of this before but I checked the verse in John and he does use the verb in the present tense so no real way to argue against this. Thanks for teaching me something new.
Never have heard of this before but I checked the verse in John and he does use the verb in the present tense so no real way to argue against this. Thanks for teaching me something new.
Isaiah 26:1 In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We have a strong city; salvation will God appoint for walls and bulwarks.
2 Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in.
3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on Thee: because he trusteth in thee.
4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:
5 For He bringeth down them that dwell on high; the lofty city, He layeth it low; He layeth it low, even to the ground; He bringeth it even to the dust.
6 The foot shall tread it down, even the feet of the poor, and the steps of the needy.
7 The way of the just is uprightness: thou, most upright, dost weigh the path of the just.
8 Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O LORD, have we waited for thee; the desire of our soul is to Thy name, and to the remembrance of Thee.
9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.
11 LORD, when thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see, and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them.
12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.
13 O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name.
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
15 Thou hast increased the nation, O LORD, Thou hast increased the nation: Thou art glorified: thou hadst removed it far unto all the ends of the earth.
16 LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when Thy chastening was upon them.
17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.
18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
19 THY DEAD MEN SHALL LIVE, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE. AWAKE AND SING YE THAT DWELL IN THE DUST FOR THY DEW IS AS THE DEW OF HERBS AND THE EARTH SHALL CAST OUT THE DEAD.
20 Come, My people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
1 In that day the LORD with His sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
2 Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in.
3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on Thee: because he trusteth in thee.
4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:
5 For He bringeth down them that dwell on high; the lofty city, He layeth it low; He layeth it low, even to the ground; He bringeth it even to the dust.
6 The foot shall tread it down, even the feet of the poor, and the steps of the needy.
7 The way of the just is uprightness: thou, most upright, dost weigh the path of the just.
8 Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O LORD, have we waited for thee; the desire of our soul is to Thy name, and to the remembrance of Thee.
9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.
11 LORD, when thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see, and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them.
12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.
13 O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name.
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
15 Thou hast increased the nation, O LORD, Thou hast increased the nation: Thou art glorified: thou hadst removed it far unto all the ends of the earth.
16 LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when Thy chastening was upon them.
17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.
18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
19 THY DEAD MEN SHALL LIVE, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE. AWAKE AND SING YE THAT DWELL IN THE DUST FOR THY DEW IS AS THE DEW OF HERBS AND THE EARTH SHALL CAST OUT THE DEAD.
20 Come, My people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
1 In that day the LORD with His sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
No, this is why the Rapture understanding is very important. Its why you guys are wrong on many other things also. The Rapture is pre trib, not post trib, else everyone would know the exact day of the Second Coming, because the Beast/Anti-Christ can only rule 1260 days. God placed all of these facts in the scriptures, but Jesus only came fir the lost sheep of Israel, so if he would barley heal the Samaritan Woman who had great faith, why would he teach about a coming Rapture of the Gentiles, which would have doomed his own ministry by not gaining a following, and hence not being able to send men out to the hole world later. if he had no followers. He wouldn't even allow the 70 he sent out to go unto the Gentiles, he gave that ministry unto Paul. So, if you want to hear about the coming Rapture you have to dig it out. Matt. 24:4-6 is about the 70 AD events, Matt. 24:7-14 is about the Church Age we are now in. Matthew 24:15-31 is about the 70th week tribulation period. Matt. 24:32-35 is the parable of the Fig Tree which tells us what too look for, and Matt. 24:36-51 is about the coming Pre Trib Rapture. You see, Jesus answered ALL of the Jews fate, those who will go through the 70th week, and those who are in Christ Jesus a his return.
You assume its either or, the Anti-Crist will not rule the entire world, that is fiction, he will rule the exact same territory as the Roman Empire Map shows Rome ruled. ALL the Whole earth means the WHOLE KAND being spoken of. Now if you doubt this turn to Daniel and you will see Nebuchadnezzar ruled over ALL MEN and the 3rd Beast Alexander the Great ruled over the WHOLE EARTH.
Every Christian I know understand the 1000 years are populated by MEN, if not how does Satan get the Nations to follow him after he is released?
Not felling well the last few days, you guys pray for Ron. Really dehydrated every morning.
You assume its either or, the Anti-Crist will not rule the entire world, that is fiction, he will rule the exact same territory as the Roman Empire Map shows Rome ruled. ALL the Whole earth means the WHOLE KAND being spoken of. Now if you doubt this turn to Daniel and you will see Nebuchadnezzar ruled over ALL MEN and the 3rd Beast Alexander the Great ruled over the WHOLE EARTH.
Every Christian I know understand the 1000 years are populated by MEN, if not how does Satan get the Nations to follow him after he is released?
Not felling well the last few days, you guys pray for Ron. Really dehydrated every morning.
Yes, Paul says they who live in sin are dead while they live, and will suffer the 2nd Death.
Most people don't get it that in order to die a 2nd death, you must be resurrected to a 2nd Life, which happens in the resurrections, the righteous coming forth to 2nd Life forevermore while the wicked come forth to suffer the 2nd Death.
"Forever" is translated from the word "aionios" which means "duration, either undefined but not endless or undefined because endless" and when appled to the affairs of men it means "not endless" but when applied to God is means "endless".
Most people don't get it that in order to die a 2nd death, you must be resurrected to a 2nd Life, which happens in the resurrections, the righteous coming forth to 2nd Life forevermore while the wicked come forth to suffer the 2nd Death.
"Forever" is translated from the word "aionios" which means "duration, either undefined but not endless or undefined because endless" and when appled to the affairs of men it means "not endless" but when applied to God is means "endless".
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Not necessarily. The Early church fathers all understood that "ye know what withholdeth" and "he who now letteth" were phrases Paul used in 2 Thess. in reference to the Roman Empire which was preventing the rise of the Antichrist - the reason being that if Paul would have just come out and said "until the Roman Empire be taken out of the way..." (2 Thessalonians 2:7 KJV) the Christian church would be on record as insurrectionist and would likely have been totally wiped out by Rome.