Eve did not sin by eating of the tree.

[reneweddaybyday]

I don't know if I will even been compensated by God for anything that has been done to me.

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Eve confessed her own sin ; the serpent beguiled me and I did eat . The eating was the sin , she didn't need to confess that she gave it to Adam because giving it to Adam was not a sin .

yes. God confirms Eve was deceived in 1 Timothy.

We r not responsible for each others sins and , she did not sin by giving it to Adam , Adam chose to eat it of his own free will . Eve was beguiled , Adam was not .

yes. And God made coats of skins for Adam and Eve to cover their shame in having sinned.

And all these many years later, God covers those who believe with garments of salvation ...

Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.


.

 

[Aaron56]

Sarcasm and name-calling are not fruits of the Spirit. Looks like you failed the test.

So young....

Elijah: "And so it was, at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, “Cry aloud, for he is a god; either he is meditating, or he is busy, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is sleeping and must be awakened.”

Paul: "And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3for you are still carnal."

I get it: you are unable to understand why the Bible is not a moral book and why the gospel is not a moral gospel. Even GWH, in his advanced age, is not able to understand the nuance.

Unlike Sinai, salvation is a free gift received through faith in Jesus' completed work on the cross, rather than a reward for human effort. The gospel is not achieved. It is given as a free gift because of representation and relationship. These are elementary principles of the gospel. Too many use the New Testament as anther book of rules. Not only does it miss the mark, but it condemns people to inadequacy because it makes their efforts the linchpin of the good news.

 

[Aaron56]

The Scriptures I cited describe God as loving and summarize GRFS as faith in Jesus that produces love, so you should not view them as reducing to law.

In your mind where does morality come in: before or after one is in Christ?

 

[GWH]

Those verses (NKJV) say:

(Gen 3:6) So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.
(Gen 3:7) Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

I take those verses as meaning what they say, that Adam and Eve disobeyed God, and ate the fruit of the forbidden tree. As verse 6 says that Eve saw that the tree was good for food, when verse 7 talks of their eyes being opened, it cannot mean their physical eyes. As John Gill comments on v7:

"Their eyes were opened to see that they had been deceived by the serpent, that they had broke the commandment of God, and incurred the displeasure of their Creator and kind benefactor."

Physical nakedness had not caused them shame before, but now, they tried to sew fig leaves together to cover themselves.

Yes, THEY sinned TOGETHER.

 

[GWH]

In your mind where does morality come in: before or after one is in Christ?

The HS comes in the moment one is in Christ (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 8:9). Sin and guilt precede. Moral maturity follows.

 

[EmethAlethia]

You don't understand authority and delegation.

If a Lieutenant says to a Corporal "The General said we must move from position A to position B" the Corporal cannot say "Well, the General never told me that directly so it's not an order I need to follow".

See how silly that is?

Problem: Both Eve and Adam are both privates. No change in rank until AFTER the fall. Eve's needing to obey Adam occurs as a consequence of the fall. It does not apply "BEFORE" the reason for consequences occur. If you do not concur, point out where God commands Eve to obey Adam prior to the fall. I can point out where it happens as a consequence of the fall if you disagree.

Once the other private arrives, the first private, Adam, takes it upon himself to share what the commander in chief had to say to him alone prior to the second privates arrival. However, the first private leaves out the fact that the commander in chief gave the command to him alone. He also decides to make it sound like it was something all privates for all time were supposed to obey, adding meaning not found anywhere in the discussion. "Don't even touch it". Plus, the first private "puts the fear of God" into the second private with regards to ever even thinking of doing anything contrary to what the first private has to say. There are rules in the military about acting like you have authority you do not have and commanding equally ranked personal as if their commanded gave commands they didn't for a reason

On top of this, the first private repeats the command of the commander in chief incorrectly, leaving out the part that the commander in chief said it was only a command to him alone, "Literally", and adding in an additional command never even given to the first private. This is why there is a chain of command. No private of the same rank has a right to give orders to another private of the same rank.

The first private sharing has absolutely no authority to command the second private anything and expect ANY obedience. None. Again, this authority comes as a consequence God gives for the women's failures. Not one moment before that.

Unfortunately, the second soldier trusts the first one, without getting any confirmation, even though two commands are then given to the two of them together: be fruitful and multiply, and to subdue the earth. Thus, both privates have the two commands given to both of them by their commander and chief. Only one private was given the additional command before the "Other" private ever even arrives in camp.

The two privates are both obeying the two commands given to them both and have no reason for any consequences for bad behavior. The second private talks with a visitor who appears to know about when the command was given to the first private, but who is contradicting what the first private said. And, actually, when the account is looked at, the first private did add the part about it applying to everyone, or the command would have been given to everyone as the other commands have been. And secondly, they did add to the command given to him alone by adding the part about not touching it.

The visitor tells the truth when it states, "You shall not surely die", as the command was never meant for them both or it would have been given to them both, and even Adam could have touched the tree and its fruit all day long every day. The lie, on the part of the visitor was that the second private would gain the knowledge of good and evil. That information and promise only belonged to the first private. This is deception. The second private was deceived. The first private disobeyed a direct command.

Delegation only works when the commander instructs the other troupes to follow the orders of someone else. Or there is a difference in the chain of command. There is no command delegating authority to Adam. There is no command of God to share this information with anyone else, and there certainly isn't any command to say "Feel free to embellish what I have to say, and assume it is for others to obey as well.

Next, nothing at all happens when the second private touches and then eats from the tree. Eve ate first. Then she gave Adam and he ate. "Then" the eyes of both of them were opened.

Consequences occur they are aware they both screwed up and try to hide things lest the commander see. The commander, returning, notices the first privates behavior, and calls him on the carpet. "Have you(singular) violated the command I gave you(singular) to obey? Again affirming the command was for the first private alone. Not the second one. The response: The other private you put in the barracks with me got me to do it." The commander turns to the second private and asks, "What is this that you have done?".

The second private is now all nervous and upset thinking the only thing possible: "I'm going to receive consequences for having touched and eaten of the tree, just like the first private originally said. What he told me was accurate after all." So, what does the second private do? She states: "The visitor you allowed into camp twisted everything up and confused me. That's why I ate." After all, it's the only thing she was told would bring consequences down on both their heads, right? There is no other possible reason, from the second's private viewpoint, right? For this reason, the second private never answers the commanders' question at all.

"What is this that you have done?", according to context, is the second private gave the first private the fruit and got them to eat." But, from their perspective of the second private, the only thing they did wrong was touching and eating of the tree.

No further questioning is done. The commander in chief gives out consequences. The visitor receives theirs. The second private receives theirs without the commander giving any additional comment as to reasons, one of which is to obey the first private from here on out. And no mention at all is made with regards to the second privates eating or touching of the tree. Why? That command was never given to them in the first place, nor was it meant for them. The consequences received were for being deceived into helping the first private disobey a direct command of the commander in chief. Not for disobeying a command given directly to someone else, and an incorrectly repeated command at that.

Next the first private receives consequences for first, listening to the second privates convincing words in order to get him to disobey the commander in chiefs direct command, and secondly, for eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, again, using wording limiting the command to them alone. And you(Singular) ate of the tree of which I commanded you(singular) not to eat.

Thus, the first private sinned (Direct violation of a command given by the commander in chief) The second private "transgressed" by getting the first private to disobey a direct command of their commander in chief. Thus, sin entered into the camp/world through the first private/man/Adam.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Or sinned by ignoring GW/believing Satan’s lie?

There are two commands given to them both, together. There is one command given to Adam alone. When he violated it, both their eyes are opened at the same time. "Both" their eyes are opened when Adam ate. Since Eve's obedience to Adam only is required after the fall, as one of her consequences of the fall, how can Eve sin? She has no way to sin unless she fails to be fruitful and multiply, or she fails to subdue the earth. There is no other way for her to sin against God.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Yes, THEY sinned TOGETHER.

Again, point out how Eve violated a command God gave her. Point to it for me? Show me how she disobeyed a single command given to her by God or that she was commanded to obey Adam. Plus explain why nothing happened when she touched or ate, until she gave to Adam the Fruits and got him to eat. THEN "Both" of their eyes were opened. Then explain to me what the "THIS" refers to in God's question to Eve: "What is THIS that you have done?" Then explain why the scriptures never say Eve sinned, but that she was in transgression. Sin requires direct disobedience. Adam sinned. Eve was in transgression (Different word.)

I get the idea of having a belief and wanting to fit all the details into your belief, even if we need to add a little meaning not in the text, subtract some that is, and distort a bit to make everything fit nice. That's not my goal though. My job is to examine all the passages assuming they are all straightforward truths where the simplest, most logical view makes complete sense without trying to force things to align with any beliefs, even very popular and common ones.

 

[Aaron56]

Problem: Both Eve and Adam are both privates. No change in rank until AFTER the fall. Eve's needing to obey Adam occurs as a consequence of the fall. It does not apply "BEFORE" the reason for consequences occur. If you do not concur, point out where God commands Eve to obey Adam prior to the fall. I can point out where it happens as a consequence of the fall if you disagree.

Nope. You would make Christ and the church equals by your doctrine. Paul showed us that Adam + Woman displays the church, citing their union BEFORE the fall.

Genesis 2 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh"

Paul in Ephesians 5 “For we are members of His body, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Paul in Colossians tells us Christ is the head of the church “And He is the head of the body, the church..”

Next time just ask more questions before you type all that out. I could have saved you all the effort.

 

[Dino246]

Problem: Both Eve and Adam are both privates. No change in rank until AFTER the fall. Eve's needing to obey Adam occurs as a consequence of the fall. It does not apply "BEFORE" the reason for consequences occur. If you do not concur, point out where God commands Eve to obey Adam prior to the fall. I can point out where it happens as a consequence of the fall if you disagree.

I definitely disagree. You are probably referring to Genesis 3:16:

“To the woman he said, “… Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NIV‬‬

God did not tell Eve to obey Adam. He told her the consequences for her sin: “he will rule over you.” Not, “He has authority over you “, not, “you are his subject”, but a sure statement of what would happen.

Similarly, God told Adam that he would fight thorns and thistles in the growing of food.

God did not err. He did not give now-sinful men Adam authority over his wife, and by extension , all husbands authority over their wives. Rather, He knew that Adam, being sinful, would force Eve to do what he wanted.

Many “Christian” husbands today think God gave them authority that He did not.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

However, the first private leaves out the fact that the commander in chief gave the command to him alone. He also decides to make it sound like it was something all privates for all time were supposed to obey, adding meaning not found anywhere in the discussion. "Don't even touch it".

What God said to Adam:

Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


What Eve said to satan:

Genesis 3:2-3 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


please provide chapter and verse which tells us Adam decided "to make it sound like it was something all privates for all time were supposed to obey, adding meaning not found anywhere in the discussion. "Don't even touch it"."

If anyone is "adding meaning not found anywhere" in Scripture, it would be the one who claims to know specifically what Adam said to Eve.


bonus: the lie believed by Eve was what satan told her "Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:4-5).

When Eve heard that, she "saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise" (Genesis 3:6).

Eve didn't eat of the tree until satan put it in her head that she "shall not surely die", that her "eyes shall be opened", and she "shall be as gods, knowing good and evil".

Eve was deceived by satan. This truth is corroborated in Scripture (1) when Eve confessed (Genesis 3:13) and (2) when Paul wrote Eve was deceived (1 Timothy 2:14).

.

 

[EmethAlethia]

please provide chapter and verse which tells us Adam decided "to make it sound like it was something all privates for all time were supposed to obey, adding meaning not found anywhere in the discussion. "Don't even touch it"."

Gen 2:16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

True or False: This command is ONLY for Adam. If it's for someone else as well, please point where in scripture the word of God says so. If not, no one else is included in the command God gave Adam alone.

God never said this to Eve:

Gen 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; 3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"

Eve's use of the word "we" means she is using the plural "you" in verse 3. Which is completely inaccurate. God commanded "the man", not Eve, not all future generations that might have been born in the garden, "the man", "You (Singular), the one man, Adam, alone.

If i want to make sure my kids don't ingest a poison, say from a rat trap, I wouldn't just say, "Don't eat it." I'd add, don't even touch it lest you die. Now here's the thing. Touching rat bait won't kill anyone, or no one could put it out for the rats. I know touching it won't kill. But if my kids did "touch" it, or mess it, they could get the poison on them, so I stress all those points.

All of what was presented to Eve, that she repeats is a lie. There is no "we". Touching it matters not one bit for anyone, and God says Adam alone is responsible for obedience, or He would have waited to give it to both of them when He commands them to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth, and to put the entire world in subjection.

If anyone is "adding meaning not found anywhere" in Scripture, it would be the one who claims to know specifically what Adam said to Eve.

If there was someone else that was present when God gave Adam alone the command, please point him/her out. Obviously, it wasn't the serpent or the discussion with Eve wouldn't exist.

Also, if you have doubt that Eve was created with the ability to remember what "some being" said to her, then doubt what it says she was told by the "some being" who was there to hear what God commanded.

I have no problem at all with you proving from scripture it wasn't Adam who told Eve about God's command. Just show me the proof. Otherwise, Adam is the only one in the garden who would have known anything about it. And Eve is capable of remembering what she was told by him.

Prove it was someone else. Otherwise form the context, unless we are trying to be obtuse, there is only one option: Adam?

bonus: the lie believed by Eve was what satan told her "Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:4-5).

Nope: God never commanded Eve not to do anything with the tree at all. Nor did God claim anyone "Other than Adam", could die by eating it. Check the text. God only told Adam HE would die if HE ate it. Please correct me using scripture if this is not the case.

If you have a separate place where God commanded Adam or Eve anything, other than to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth (Given to both) and to the man "alone", that He, Himself, should not eat of the tree lest HE die, wonderful! Point out the verse. If not, it is as the word of God says. It was for Adam alone. Scripture. stick to scripture.

Sorry, you do not get consequences for my disobedience to God's commands, and I don't get your consequences either. Same with rewards. God gave well over 100 commands for individuals no one else was ever even meant to obey. "Moses strike the rock" "Moses raise your hands and part the Red Sea", "Gideon choose out from amongst you, ..." A command for one does not make it a command for all. If you disagree, prove it from scripture.

I get that you don't like what I see from scripture. Prove all things, over and over again, always hold fast to what is being proven good/true. Disprove the points I make.

Prove God wanted Eve to obey the command He only gave to Adam before her creation. Or,

Prove Eve was commanded to Obey Adam, no matter what he said prior to the fall. or

Prove God gave Eve a different command regarding eating of the tree while she was alone somewhere in scripture. I offer proof at every point and ask for your evidence, not your feelings or opinion.

 

[EmethAlethia]

When Eve heard that, she "saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise" (Genesis 3:6).

Yes, and that was the serpents lie or deception. Eve wasn't promised this outcome if she ate at all. Not a single thing in God's command to Adam alone, applied to her. Again, if a command to one individual makes anyone else responsible to obey that command, show me where that is true. There are commands for all, like "be fruitful and multiply" was for all humanity at that point. But there are also commands just for one individual not for everyone else. To Judas: "What you do, do quickly.", for example.

Yes, Eve believed it would make her wise. That "unknown being" who you say wasn't Adam, told her so, and now the serpent verified it. Both have deceived her at the point. Adam sinned. Eve, being deceived was in transgression.

Additional proof. Eve ate. event one. Nothing of consequence happened. Eve gave to her husband and he ate. (Separate events) When he ate, BOTH their eyes are opened, BOTH of them received the knowledge of good and evil.

I don't have a problem with disagreement. I have a problem with disagreeing without dealing with the evidence and facts presented to the contrary, and without you bringing up any evidence proving contrary to what I am sharing. It almost seems you are trampling what I am sharing under foot, and your eyes and ears are completely closed to considering your beliefs might, in any way, be wrong.

All I am asking is for you to show me how you are right, and I am wrong, from the text, without adding meaning not present, without subtracting meaning that is present, and without distorting anything to hold fast to a belief or belief set. Proof.

Eve didn't eat of the tree until satan put it in her head that she "shall not surely die", that her "eyes shall be opened", and she "shall be as gods, knowing good and evil".

More accurately, Eve didn't die until she got Adam to eat. God cannot justly give consequences to anyone for disobeying a command He never gave to them. I don't receive the consequences Moses received for striking the rock God commanded him to strike only once, nor did anyone else. It was a command only for him.

Again, if you are saying Eve was required to obey a command scripture says was only to Adam, only for Adam, ... wonderful. Prove it.

Eve was deceived by satan. This truth is corroborated in Scripture (1) when Eve confessed (Genesis 3:13) and (2) when Paul wrote Eve was deceived (1 Timothy 2:14)..

Well then, proving the command was for Adam and Eve, and not just Adam, should be easy for you. I await your proof.

Proving Eve received the same command, and thus received the same consequences at the moment she ate, not when she gave to Adam and he ate, should be easy for you. I await your proof.

Proving God does not refer to Adam alone, "You" singular, and not both Adam and Eve, the next two times God says, "Adam have YOU (singular) eaten of the tree of which I told YOU (singular) not to eat of." and not to both him and Eve, should be easy for you. I await your proof.

Proving that God was referring to Eve's eating, and touching, the fruit of the tree of knowledge when he asks her, "What is "THIS" that thou hast done?" and not to Adam's statement, "The woman that Thou gavest to me gave to me, and I ate.", should be easy for you. I await your evidence.

Proving that God responded at all to Eve's statement that she ate by stating, anything related to her statement of eating or touching the tree, and not to the only thing He does reference, "what is THIS that thou hast done?", should be easy. Prove it.

Prove that God can be just and give commands to one individual and giving consequences to anyone else for not obeying commands given only to them.

Eve was deceived by Satan/the serpent. By implying God's command to Adam was for anyone else but him. The statement to her about her not surely dying, just happened to be truth. Nothing happened because the command wasn't for her. But all of this started with whoever you can prove, who was present to hear what God said, told Eve what she says that being told her.

Eve was deceived. Adam sinned. Eve transgressed. Adam sinned. Only one command for one man. And when Eve transgressed, not sinned, as there was no command of God for her to violate, her eyes were opened. Through one man sin entered into the world. Not one woman. Mine is a straightforward interpretation of the passage. I have no idea what convoluted hermeneutical contortionism needs to be done to get that to mean, Eve sinned first, but that somehow gets set aside and not being attributed to her, or it jumps to Adam and her sin is his and she didn't sin till after that... to get that, and many other passages pertaining to Adam's sin, to work. But, by gosh, if you have a way to make it work, I'll examine your scriptural evidence, piece by piece.

Again, I offer a ton of what I see as proof. You have not offered proof against these things. Please reply as to the scriptures you believe disprove each point.

 

[GWH]

Again, point out how Eve violated a command God gave her. Point to it for me? Show me how she disobeyed a single command given to her by God or that she was commanded to obey Adam. Plus explain why nothing happened when she touched or ate, until she gave to Adam the Fruits and got him to eat. THEN "Both" of their eyes were opened. Then explain to me what the "THIS" refers to in God's question to Eve: "What is THIS that you have done?" Then explain why the scriptures never say Eve sinned, but that she was in transgression. Sin requires direct disobedience. Adam sinned. Eve was in transgression (Different word.)

I get the idea of having a belief and wanting to fit all the details into your belief, even if we need to add a little meaning not in the text, subtract some that is, and distort a bit to make everything fit nice. That's not my goal though. My job is to examine all the passages assuming they are all straightforward truths where the simplest, most logical view makes complete sense without trying to force things to align with any beliefs, even very popular and common ones.

Gen. 3:6-7 is self-explanatory. Pointing out that the point was they sinned together should be unnecessary. Can't you answer your own questions simply be reading it? Sin and transgression are synonyms!

You are overthinking and committing the sin of eisegesis: having a belief and wanting to fit all the details into your belief,
even if you need to add a little meaning not in the text, subtract some that is, and distort a bit to make everything fit.

 

[Dino246]

Yes, and that was the serpents lie or deception. Eve wasn't promised this outcome if she ate at all. Not a single thing in God's command to Adam alone, applied to her. Again, if a command to one individual makes anyone else responsible to obey that command, show me where that is true. There are commands for all, like "be fruitful and multiply" was for all humanity at that point. But there are also commands just for one individual not for everyone else. To Judas: "What you do, do quickly.", for example.

Yes, Eve believed it would make her wise. That "unknown being" who you say wasn't Adam, told her so, and now the serpent verified it. Both have deceived her at the point. Adam sinned. Eve, being deceived was in transgression.

Additional proof. Eve ate. event one. Nothing of consequence happened. Eve gave to her husband and he ate. (Separate events) When he ate, BOTH their eyes are opened, BOTH of them received the knowledge of good and evil.

I don't have a problem with disagreement. I have a problem with disagreeing without dealing with the evidence and facts presented to the contrary, and without you bringing up any evidence proving contrary to what I am sharing. It almost seems you are trampling what I am sharing under foot, and your eyes and ears are completely closed to considering your beliefs might, in any way, be wrong.

All I am asking is for you to show me how you are right, and I am wrong, from the text, without adding meaning not present, without subtracting meaning that is present, and without distorting anything to hold fast to a belief or belief set. Proof.

More accurately, Eve didn't die until she got Adam to eat. God cannot justly give consequences to anyone for disobeying a command He never gave to them. I don't receive the consequences Moses received for striking the rock God commanded him to strike only once, nor did anyone else. It was a command only for him.

Again, if you are saying Eve was required to obey a command scripture says was only to Adam, only for Adam, ... wonderful. Prove it.

Well then, proving the command was for Adam and Eve, and not just Adam, should be easy for you. I await your proof.

Proving Eve received the same command, and thus received the same consequences at the moment she ate, not when she gave to Adam and he ate, should be easy for you. I await your proof.


Again, I offer a ton of what I see as proof. You have not offered proof against these things. Please reply as to the scriptures you believe disprove each point.

You use "proof" like it is a mathematical certainty. It isn't. This is a logical, rational argument for which evidence is the currency; "proof" is only what it takes to be convinced, and you are convinced you are right while others are wrong. Therefore, demanding "proof" is like demanding that 2 + 2 = 5. It ain't gonna happen.

As for evidence, plenty has been presented to refute your unbiblical assertions, and you have ignored it.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

please provide chapter and verse which tells us Adam decided "to make it sound like it was something all privates for all time were supposed to obey, adding meaning not found anywhere in the discussion. "Don't even touch it"."​

Gen 2:16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

True or False: This command is ONLY for Adam. If it's for someone else as well, please point where in scripture the word of God says so. If not, no one else is included in the command God gave Adam alone.

no chapter/verse for your continued insistence that Adam lied to Eve ... got it

God never said this to Eve:

Gen 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; 3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"

no one posting in this thread has said God said what Eve told satan.

Eve's use of the word "we" means she is using the plural "you" in verse 3. Which is completely inaccurate. God commanded "the man", not Eve, not all future generations that might have been born in the garden, "the man", "You (Singular), the one man, Adam, alone.

the reason "you" is singular in Genesis 2:17 is because Eve had not yet been formed from Adam's rib. After God brought "every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air" to Adam to see what Adam would call them (Genesis 2:19-20), then Eve was formed from Adam's rib (Genesis 2:21).

If i want to make sure my kids don't ingest a poison, say from a rat trap, I wouldn't just say, "Don't eat it." I'd add, don't even touch it lest you die. Now here's the thing. Touching rat bait won't kill anyone, or no one could put it out for the rats. I know touching it won't kill. But if my kids did "touch" it, or mess it, they could get the poison on them, so I stress all those points.

All of what was presented to Eve, that she repeats is a lie.

You do not know "what was presented to Eve".

You only know what Eve told satan ... and you do not know that Eve "repeats" verbatim what Adam told Eve.

There is no "we". Touching it matters not one bit for anyone, and God says Adam alone is responsible for obedience, or He would have waited to give it to both of them when He commands them to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth, and to put the entire world in subjection.

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Do you believe Eve was to "dress it and to keep it" alongside Adam??? ... or was only Adam tasked with that???




reneweddaybyday said:

If anyone is "adding meaning not found anywhere" in Scripture, it would be the one who claims to know specifically what Adam said to Eve.​

If there was someone else that was present when God gave Adam alone the command, please point him/her out.

I never said anyone else was present ... that's just more unproven conjecture on your part. I have maintained that no one knows what Adam said to Eve and for you to insist Adam lied to Eve is error.

Obviously, it wasn't the serpent or the discussion with Eve wouldn't exist.

Also, if you have doubt that Eve was created with the ability to remember what "some being" said to her, then doubt what it says she was told by the "some being" who was there to hear what God commanded.

I have no problem at all with you proving from scripture it wasn't Adam who told Eve about God's command. Just show me the proof. Otherwise, Adam is the only one in the garden who would have known anything about it. And Eve is capable of remembering what she was told by him.

God hath said – Genesis 3:6.

Eve did not say "Adam said" ... nor did Eve say "Adam said God said". Eve said "God said" ... and I'm not saying God said that to Eve. I'm only saying what is stated in Scripture. period.

Prove it was someone else. Otherwise form the context, unless we are trying to be obtuse, there is only one option: Adam?

there is more than one option ... i.e. "someone else" is saying something that cannot be proven in the text and "someone else" believes what "someone else" says (and I'm not referring to Eve).




reneweddaybyday said:

bonus: the lie believed by Eve was what satan told her "Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:4-5).​

Nope: God never commanded Eve not to do anything with the tree at all. Nor did God claim anyone "Other than Adam", could die by eating it. Check the text. God only told Adam HE would die if HE ate it. Please correct me using scripture if this is not the case.

God made it very clear that Eve was deceived – 1 Timothy 2:14.

You believe Adam deceived Eve.

I believe satan deceived Eve.

You and I are not in agreement on this point.

If you have a separate place where God commanded Adam or Eve anything, other than to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth (Given to both) and to the man "alone", that He, Himself, should not eat of the tree lest HE die, wonderful! Point out the verse. If not, it is as the word of God says. It was for Adam alone. Scripture. stick to scripture.

I pray you will heed your own advice ... "Scripture. stick to scripture".

Sorry, you do not get consequences for my disobedience to God's commands, and I don't get your consequences either. Same with rewards. God gave well over 100 commands for individuals no one else was ever even meant to obey. "Moses strike the rock" "Moses raise your hands and part the Red Sea", "Gideon choose out from amongst you, ..." A command for one does not make it a command for all. If you disagree, prove it from scripture.

I get that you don't like what I see from scripture. Prove all things, over and over again, always hold fast to what is being proven good/true. Disprove the points I make.

I have provided more than enough Scripture to counter your claim that "Adam lied to Eve" ... but you refuse to heed your own advice again ... Prove all things, hold fast that which is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

You have not proven your claim, yet you refuse to let it go.

Prove God wanted Eve to obey the command He only gave to Adam before her creation. Or,

Prove Eve was commanded to Obey Adam, no matter what he said prior to the fall. or

there you go again ... you want me to prove your point. It is up to you to prove your own point.

You need to provide Scripture which tells us exactly what Adam said to Eve before you can claim without a doubt that "Adam lied to Eve".

Prove God gave Eve a different command regarding eating of the tree while she was alone somewhere in scripture. I offer proof at every point and ask for your evidence, not your feelings or opinion.

Scriptural evidence has been provided ... not "feelings or opinion" but actual Scripture. you refuse to believe what Scripture tells you outright. So who is relying on "feelings or opinion"?

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

When Eve heard that, she "saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise" (Genesis 3:6).​

Yes, Eve believed it would make her wise. That "unknown being" who you say wasn't Adam, told her so, and now the serpent verified it. Both have deceived her at the point. Adam sinned. Eve, being deceived was in transgression.

You have yet to provide Scriptural support for your contention that anyone told Eve what Eve said to satan.

Scripture is silent on that point ... why aren't you?

Additional proof. Eve ate. event one. Nothing of consequence happened.

you do not know that "nothing of consequence happened" when Eve ate.

Eve gave to her husband and he ate. (Separate events) When he ate, BOTH their eyes are opened, BOTH of them received the knowledge of good and evil.

I agree that Adam was not with Eve when satan deceived her and she ate.

I believe Eve's eyes were opened the moment she ate and the reason the verse says "both" is because Adam's eyes were opened the moment he ate.

I don't have a problem with disagreement. I have a problem with disagreeing without dealing with the evidence and facts presented to the contrary, and without you bringing up any evidence proving contrary to what I am sharing. It almost seems you are trampling what I am sharing under foot, and your eyes and ears are completely closed to considering your beliefs might, in any way, be wrong.

I have considered your claim and do not believe you have provided Scriptural support for your claim. that you "feel" I am "trampling what [you] are sharing under foot" does not equal my "trampling what [you] are sharing under foot".

You have been shown Scripture by me and others which you sweep aside in holding to your unfounded claim.

All I am asking is for you to show me how you are right, and I am wrong, from the text, without adding meaning not present, without subtracting meaning that is present, and without distorting anything to hold fast to a belief or belief set. Proof.

what God told Adam:

Genesis 2:16-17

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


what Eve told satan:

Genesis 3:2-3

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


That is all we know concerning what God said to Adam and what Eve said to satan "from the text, without adding meaning not present, without subtracting meaning that is present, and without distorting anything".




reneweddaybyday said:

Eve didn't eat of the tree until satan put it in her head that she "shall not surely die", that her "eyes shall be opened", and she "shall be as gods, knowing good and evil".​

More accurately, Eve didn't die until she got Adam to eat. God cannot justly give consequences to anyone for disobeying a command He never gave to them. I don't receive the consequences Moses received for striking the rock God commanded him to strike only once, nor did anyone else. It was a command only for him.

Again, if you are saying Eve was required to obey a command scripture says was only to Adam, only for Adam, ... wonderful. Prove it.

You don't know Eve did not die the moment she ate.

I believe Eve died spiritually the moment she ate. you do not believe that and I am fine with not arguing over this point.

Where is the command from God to Eve that if she gives to Adam, she will die?




reneweddaybyday said:

Eve was deceived by satan. This truth is corroborated in Scripture (1) when Eve confessed (Genesis 3:13) and (2) when Paul wrote Eve was deceived (1 Timothy 2:14).​

Proving that God responded at all to Eve's statement that she ate by stating, anything related to her statement of eating or touching the tree, and not to the only thing He does reference, "what is THIS that thou hast done?", should be easy. Prove it.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Eve was there at the time. She answered the question God asked her. She did not confess "the serpent beguiled me, and I gave to Adam".

She knew what God was asking and she confessed she ate. God did not correct her and tell her she was being judged for giving to Adam.

Eve was deceived. Adam sinned. Eve transgressed. Adam sinned. Only one command for one man. And when Eve transgressed, not sinned, as there was no command of God for her to violate, her eyes were opened. Through one man sin entered into the world. Not one woman. Mine is a straightforward interpretation of the passage. I have no idea what convoluted hermeneutical contortionism needs to be done to get that to mean, Eve sinned first, but that somehow gets set aside and not being attributed to her, or it jumps to Adam and her sin is his and she didn't sin till after that... to get that, and many other passages pertaining to Adam's sin, to work.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Romans 5:12 is clear that sin [Greek = hamartia] entered into the world through Adam. What was passed down to descendants of Adam was death ... for all have sinned i.e. all die due to their own sin, not due to Adam's sin.

1 Timothy 2:14 is clear that Eve transgressed. The word "transgression" in 1 Timothy 2:14 is translated from the Greek word parabasis which means overstepping, a stepping over the line. Eve knew of the "line", yet ate of the tree when satan deceived her.


You say you "have no idea what convoluted hermeneutical contortionism needs to be done to get that to mean, Eve sinned first" ... yet Scripture is clear that Eve ate before Adam ate. Eve transgressed ... she stepped over the line.

Adam was not deceived ... Adam freely ate of the tree and joined his wife in her fallen state (Genesis 2:24). Adam sinned.

Again, I offer a ton of what I see as proof. You have not offered proof against these things. Please reply as to the scriptures you believe disprove each point.

Just because I refuse to prove your point ... which is something you have failed to do yet you insist that is something I must do for you ... does not mean I have not provided Scripture which disproves your conjecture.

.

 

[TMS]

When did Eve sin?

I think it was the moment she ate of the forbidden fruit.

 

[TMS]

How do you explain this verse?
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Eve was deceived and was a transgressor.

She sinned.