False teachers, is it our duty to rebuke them?

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D

DBurrage

Banned
#81
Apr 21, 2020
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#81
DWR said:
Because of what many on this forum have testified they believe is necessary for salvation, I believe that they may be in that very group that Matthew 7:21 speaks about.

A true believe will try to keep God's commands because a true believe will love his Lord and Savior.

You are saying that a person can believe and be saved but lose that salvation if they willfully sin.
That is placing eternal security in the individuals hands, not it the hands of the Savior.
Deny it all you want, but that is salvation based on works, not on the grace, mercy, and love of the Father and the price the Son paid when He died on the cross for the sins of all man.
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Ok, I accept the angle you're coming from.

This does raise a question for me and I'd appreciate your help working through it:

We are told to keep God's commandments - John 14:15

My reading of Hebrews tells me that if we accept Jesus into our lives to cover our sin, but continue sinning DELIBERATELY, that we will be judged on those sins because they will not be covered by Jesus' sacrifice:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

Why, exactly, is this understanding false?
 
G

garee

Banned
#82
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#82
DWR said:
Because of what many on this forum have testified they believe is necessary for salvation, I believe that they may be in that very group that Matthew 7:21 speaks about.

A true believe will try to keep God's commands because a true believe will love his Lord and Savior.

You are saying that a person can believe and be saved but lose that salvation if they willfully sin.
That is placing eternal security in the individuals hands, not it the hands of the Savior.
Deny it all you want, but that is salvation based on works, not on the grace, mercy, and love of the Father and the price the Son paid when He died on the cross for the sins of all man.
Click to expand...
One thing I noticed. In that parable it does not say those works were not performed and did not cast out demons as a gift of salvation , But rather I never knew you. . by moving you . . . you worker of iniquity.

Worker of iniquity = natural unconverted mankind (self righteous) .

God can use a unbeliever to plant and water the incorruptible seed just as easily as one that does walk by faith. His unseen spirit causes growth if any. He is not served by human hands. He moves them according to the good purpose of his will as he works in us with us to make our burden lighter.

“He is the God who made the whole world and everything in it. He is the Lord of the land and the sky. He does not live in temples built by human hands. He is the one who gives people life, breath, and everything else they need. He does not need any help from them. He has everything he needs. Acts 17-24-25
 
D

DWR

Guest
#83
#83
DBurrage said:
Ok, I accept the angle you're coming from.

This does raise a question for me and I'd appreciate your help working through it:

We are told to keep God's commandments - John 14:15

My reading of Hebrews tells me that if we accept Jesus into our lives to cover our sin, but continue sinning DELIBERATELY, that we will be judged on those sins because they will not be covered by Jesus' sacrifice:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

Why, exactly, is this understanding false?
Click to expand...
Help me understand where you are coming from.
Do you believe a person can be saved but lose that salvation because of deliberate sin?
The night that Peter denied Jesus three times, was that not deliberate sin?
Did Peter lose his salvation?

Every believer has deliberately sinned at some point in his life and to deny that fact is a deliberate sin.
There are many on this forum that deliberately did not assemble with other believers Sunday as Scripture instructs us to do.
Did they lose their salvation?
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#84
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#84
DWR said:
Help me understand where you are coming from.
Do you believe a person can be saved but lose that salvation because of deliberate sin?
The night that Peter denied Jesus three times, was that not deliberate sin?
Did Peter lose his salvation?

Every believer has deliberately sinned at some point in his life and to deny that fact is a deliberate sin.
There are many on this forum that deliberately did not assemble with other believers Sunday as Scripture instructs us to do.
Did they lose their salvation?
Click to expand...
Thank you for your continued help, I appreciate it.

I believe that salvation is not given to us in this life, rather that it is given to us in the next life based on the decisions we make in this life (i.e. the decision to follow Jesus).
Therefore I do not believe that we swap from a state of being saved to not being saved, in this life.

I DO believe that our lives can be on a trajectory towards salvation or 'non-salvation', and that the trajectory can change.

I believe that by allowing the Holy Spirit to change our hearts and choosing to follow Jesus, we put our life on a trajectory for salvation.
But if we choose to change that trajectory to one of deliberate sin and rebelliousness against God, then yes our trajectory changes.

I do not know what happened to Peter as I am not God.

Scripture obviously provided in previous posts.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#85
#85
Have you ever listened to someone and said to yourself.
DBurrage said:
Within the last few days I started a thread about Westboro Baptist Church.

Despite how members of the Church behave, I asked whether they are correct in some of their teachings.
In answer to this question I was given a resounding *NO!".
I was even attacked by other users of this forum, who asked whether I am a Westboro member.

The thread can be viewed here:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/westboro.192419/

The reason I'm starting this particular thread is because I want to know if the Christian community will rise with a similar zeal in refuting other false teachers and heathens...

For instance:

- The new wave of so called 'mega-churches' that are light on scriptural teaching but heavily promote the so called 'prosperity gospel'.
These so called churches generally use the money that people give to enrich the lifestyle of the leaders.
Examples include Hillsong and C3.
Both of these organisations have been hit with child sexual abuse scandals.

- What about the Catholic 'church'?
What is the Biblical justification for the pope, cardinals, etc?
What is the Biblical justification for their traditions for example confessing sins TO THEIR 'FATHER' as oppose to Jesus, the hail Mary beads as a form of punishment, etc?
This so called 'church' has also been very heavily embroiled in a child sexual abuse scandal, and the Catholic hierarchy acted to cover it up.

Will my brothers and sisters in Christ act to rebuke these false teachings and un-Christ like deeds?
Click to expand...
So you think that Jesus is calling you to preach against the Hillsong Fellowships? Really? That is the Gospel message as you understand it? To stand against All those "on fire for Jesus" , In Love with Jesus, holy living, "here am I Jesus, do with me as you please, send me anywhere you want, to do whatever you say," hands raised, worshiping Jesus in Spirit and in truth, tears streaming down their faces in joy as they lift up holy hand to know Jesus more and more everyday, saints," are somehow deceived by too much prosperity message mixture in some of their preachers (even though Hillsong has its roots in the AOG and is far from prosperity message) You really think this is the blight on our world that must be exposed and preached against at the moment?

This is what Jesus is telling you to stand up against? Really? And you think that the Roman Catholic Church has not already been thoroughly exposed with myriads of books and messages hundreds of years before you were born? Who do you even know that gives any credibilty to the RCC? The job has been completed bro, it was already exposed before you came on the scene. Not your calling.

No! this is not what God is calling believers to stand against. You are called to preach the Gospel. Focus on the message the Paul and Peter preached. Become so familiar with the person of Jesus Christ that all you want to do is expound upon Him and the Father will draw men to Christ through your preaching. Getting people to agree with your criticism of Hillsong will simply be causing them to sin along with you. Every word of you speak you will give account for.

Ever heard of Wood, Hay and Stubble? The Bema Seat of Christ? Take a closer look at that passage and get back with me after you have understood it.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#86
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
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#86
DBurrage said:
I DO believe that our lives can be on a trajectory towards salvation or 'non-salvation', and that the trajectory can change.
Click to expand...
This does not square up with:

Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift)

"having been saved" is the literal rendition of the Greek. It is a trajectory
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#87
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#87
Edit to the post above - it is NOT a trajectory

This does not square up with:

Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift)

"having been saved" is the literal rendition of the Greek. It is NOT a trajectory.

DBurrage said:
I DO believe that our lives can be on a trajectory towards salvation or 'non-salvation', and that the trajectory can change.
Click to expand...
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#88
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#88
azamzimtoti said:
This does not square up with:

Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift)

"having been saved" is the literal rendition of the Greek. It is a trajectory
Click to expand...
Not my reading of it.
azamzimtoti said:
Edit to the post above - it is NOT a trajectory

This does not square up with:

Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift)

"having been saved" is the literal rendition of the Greek. It is NOT a trajectory.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, can you tell me what you think I'm saying here?
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#89
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#89
DBurrage said:
Not my reading of it.

Hmmm, can you tell me what you think I'm saying here?
Click to expand...
You want me to think what you think you are saying?

As I said your statement is in direct contradiction to Eph 2:8 therefore I rebuke you in the name of your thread for being a false teacher.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#90
Mar 13, 2014
41,299
16,294
113
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Tennessee
#90
Dino246 said:
Your thread title asks, "Is it our duty to rebuke them?" as though you want a discussion about that question. Your opening post makes it clear that you have already answered the question and are looking for affirmation and support in doing so. If you want to be a heresy hunter, go right ahead; you'll get all the affirmation you need.

I'll just ask you one question: Who would you rather emulate: Jesus, or pre-conversion Saul? Think on that before your next hunting expedition. :)
Click to expand...
Personally, I'm trending towards Jesus.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#91
Mar 13, 2014
41,299
16,294
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Tennessee
#91
Dino246 said:
Okay so far. Now, what do you propose is a workable and effective way to "hold others to account"?
Click to expand...
The approved form of punishment in New Testament times is to throw stones. Of course, you would have to be without sin to cast the first one.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#92
#92
1590438027812.jpeg 1590438040148.jpeg
Way Too Many people in love with Jesus at the same location. Something must be done to tell them they are not allowed to have such a big crowd. (sarcasm)
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#93
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#93
Scribe said:
Have you ever listened to someone and said to yourself.


So you think that Jesus is calling you to preach against the Hillsong Fellowships? Really? That is the Gospel message as you understand it? To stand against All those "on fire for Jesus" , In Love with Jesus, holy living, "here am I Jesus, do with me as you please, send me anywhere you want, to do whatever you say," hands raised, worshiping Jesus in Spirit and in truth, tears streaming down their faces in joy as they lift up holy hand to know Jesus more and more everyday, saints," are somehow deceived by too much prosperity message mixture in some of their preachers (even though Hillsong has its roots in the AOG and is far from prosperity message) You really think this is the blight on our world that must be exposed and preached against at the moment?

This is what Jesus is telling you to stand up against? Really? And you think that the Roman Catholic Church has not already been thoroughly exposed with myriads of books and messages hundreds of years before you were born? Who do you even know that gives any credibilty to the RCC? The job has been completed bro, it was already exposed before you came on the scene. Not your calling.

No! this is not what God is calling believers to stand against. You are called to preach the Gospel. Focus on the message the Paul and Peter preached. Become so familiar with the person of Jesus Christ that all you want to do is expound upon Him and the Father will draw men to Christ through your preaching. Getting people to agree with your criticism of Hillsong will simply be causing them to sin along with you. Every word of you speak you will give account for.

Ever heard of Wood, Hay and Stubble? The Bema Seat of Christ? Take a closer look at that passage and get back with me after you have understood it.
Click to expand...
Sorry, are you saying that we don't have responsibility to challenge false doctrine?

https://www.openbible.info/topics/false_teachings
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#94
Mar 13, 2014
41,299
16,294
113
69
Tennessee
#94
Scribe said:
View attachment 217078 View attachment 217079
Way Too Many people in love with Jesus at the same location. Something must be done to tell them they are not allowed to have such a big crowd. (sarcasm)
Click to expand...
Even though you have been a member since 2009 I haven't seen a post of yours until today. Consider becoming a frequent contributor to the forums.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#98
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
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#98
It's late here in the UK so I'm going to have to turn in for the night, but before I do I just want to say this:

We are repeatedly warned about false teachers and false prophets.
We must not mock what the Bible tells us.

Regarding Hillsong, I need to turn in now so I'll just leave this here, and encourage each of us to do our own research.
BTW I was once at a Hillsong Church and left because of false prosperity teaching (see my 'tithing' thread)

https://www.gotquestions.org/Hillsong-Church.html
 
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