False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture
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Glad to hear that most of your prayers weren't answered, whilst you were disobedient to God. We don't know what's best for us, but God does so we should thank Him for not giving us everything we ask for.
Thank God, the Holy Spirit was still working in you, otherwise you would have fallen away permanently. Your testimony is very encouraging.
A member of our Church recently left and renounced his faith in Christ. He was praying about a matter for over 12 months without an answer or resolution. He now claims that God didn't hear his prayers or He just didn't care about his problem.
We prayed for him and the Elders reached out to him, but he never responded to any of their attempts. We have officially excommunicated him and we won't ever reach out to him again. We now consider him to be an infidel.
If the Holy Spirit was working in this man, he wouldn't have renounced his faith in Christ.
Hebrews 6:6 has to be teaching that Christ's atonement was a once and for all event. And if someone claims to believe in Him and then falls away, it means they never truly believed and they will never find any other way of salvation, apart from the one they rejected.
If someone rejects the gospel, they have rejected the only way of salvation and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. They can never find forgiveness after blaspheming the Holy Spirit, so they are reprobate (sealed for eternity in hell).
So, you think this where you and OMC differ? You believe they were never really saved and you think OMC thinks they were truly saved but rejected the salvation?
Hebrews 6:4–6 doesn’t overturn those texts—it explains false profession, not loss of true salvation.
The people there are “partakers” of external privileges (light, taste, powers), but the writer never says they are regenerated, justified, or sealed; when they fall away, he calls it “impossible…to renew them again unto repentance,” which matches apostasy, not a justified man becoming unjustified.
Scripture is explicit: all the Father gives to the Son come and are kept (John 6:37–39), Christ’s sheep “shall never perish” and “no man is able to pluck them” from His and the Father’s hand (John 10:28–29), the justified are unbreakably carried from foreknowledge to glorification (Rom 8:29–30), and the elect are “kept by the power of God” (1 Pet 1:5).
When some depart, John says they “went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19), and Hebrews itself defines the real believer as one who “holds the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end” (Heb 3:14).
So the principle stands: the elect never lose salvation; Hebrews 6 describes those who were near the gospel and its gifts, yet never truly united to Christ.
You are trying to do an "either <> or"
I am going by experience and what THE WORD SAYS.
Paul said in Galatians "walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh."
Your version is what I call mechanical.
Its not that your version is wrong.
It is simply lacking what the bible laid out, as a nuclear bomb against a person being found in, or, relenting to, sin.
Also Paul said "i pick up my cross daily "
Crucify the flesh; walk in the spirit.
(The "one, two punch" Paul used against sin.)
I won't try to invoke speaking in tongues, as people here will not know what I am talking about.
You claim your version "aligns with scripture"
But you reframed the parable, most likely to fit "once saved aleays saved"
Am i close?
Why change the parable?
If it destroys doctrine, change your doctrine.
The parable starts off, with the prodigal being part of the family. His father is representing the heavenly father.
So the parable starts off with a saved person. Not a sinner whose father is the devil.
You got the entire deal wrong.
I was encouraged to read your reply, I'm glad you explained your position clearly. I was somewhat confused earlier, as I got the sense that you believe human efforts contribute something to the work of salvation.
As I read through some of our posts, I realize I may have been to rigid with my "salvation is 100% of the Lord and 0% of man". Some could come away thinking that my view of the bible doctrine of "predestination and election to salvation and OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), means that I can now enjoy sin with impunity, since I'm already saved and nothing can change that fact.
I'm sure all true believers know that our battle against the enemy is always raging, the enemy doesn't sleep or go on holidays. We are in a constant struggle to remain faithful and resist temptation. Yes the Lord Jesus won the battle over sin and Satan. But that's no reason to take our ease and enjoy the tings of this world.
We lose some of the battles but the Lord Jesus has already secured the ultimate victory for Gods people. We still get wounded and we pierce ourselves through with many sorrows, when we wilfully disobey God. The sorrow and pain we feel causes us to repent and turn back to God and He is always faithful to forgive us and restore us.
If salvation is 100% of the Lord, then it's not ours to lose. It's all of the Lord and He never fails to achieve anything He sets out to do.
When I think about Satan and sin being defeated, I am reminded of what a professor told our class one time. If a python gets in a room it can be a grave danger to anyone in the room, so you shoot it. But even a fatally shot python can thrash around and cause a whole lot of damage before it is finally still. Satan and sin might be dealt with an in their death struggles, but that does not mean that they cannot cause a great deal of harm.
I may have to borrow that analogy from you.
A great illustration
It made me think of a story where a man cut the head off a rattlesnake and it bit a shovel when they put it to its mouth.
( my grandma's father).
But beyond that it is even deeper.
That defeated devil is still the god of this world, in that MOST of the world serves him.
That is where his remnant power lies.
( in those followers)...and the mischief we allow him to do.
Even with a renewed heart, believers retain a remaining sin nature (the "flesh") until physical death or glorification. Holiness is a lifelong process of mortifying sin and relying on grace, not a one-time achievement of complete sinlessness.
In Galatians 5:17, Paul states that the flesh and the Spirit oppose each other, creating an internal conflict that continues throughout a believer's earthly life. Paul was not teaching that believers can achieve total sinlessness in this life by walking in the Spirit.
Paul never claimed victory over sin, but he did admit that sin overpowers him. Romans 7:19 "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice." As you can see, Paul practiced evil, while he was trying to walk in the spirit. Your "one two punch" method is fantasy.
You're assuming Romans 7 is describing the normal Christian life under the power of the Spirit, but the context argues otherwise.
In Romans 7, Paul says sin dwells in him, brings him into captivity, and causes him to do what he hates (Rom. 7:14-23).
Then in Romans 8, he contrasts that bondage with those who walk after the Spirit and are set free from the law of sin and death (Rom. 8:1-4).
Galatians 5:17 does teach conflict between the flesh and the Spirit, but conflict is not the same thing as defeat.
Just a few verses later Paul says, "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh" (Gal. 5:16).
Nobody is claiming sinless perfection.
The issue is whether the believer is doomed to continual defeat.
Paul certainly was not. He could say, "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 7:25), "sin shall not have dominion over you" (Rom. 6:14), and "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me" (Phil. 4:13).
So Romans 7 cannot be isolated from Romans 6 and 8.
Paul acknowledged the reality of the struggle, but he also proclaimed victory through Christ rather than perpetual bondage to sin.
You haven't identified any of my supposed errors and you haven't given any reason for rejecting the Bible doctrine of "eternal security", nor have you justified your rejection of Gods Word regarding "election and predestination onto salvation".
You claim that the "Prodigal Son was a saved person", while he was fornicating with prostitutes and getting drunk. This can't be true as it would make a mockery of the work of the Holy Spirit, in regeneration and the transformation that comes with being born again.
So the parable does not "start of with a saved person", instead it starts off with a person who is enslaved to his sin nature and Satan. Your interpretation of the parable doesn't line up with what the Bible reveals about the matter. It sounds like your Shepherd failed to teach you the true meaning of the parable.
While regeneration (the new birth) breaks the absolute tyranny and supreme rule of the old sin nature over a person. The legal and moral hold of the "old man" was crucified with Christ (Romans 6:6), meaning believers are no longer slaves legally bound to obey sin.
Believers remain simultaneously justified saints and struggling sinners. Because remnants of indwelling sin remain, we must engage in lifelong "mortification"—actively putting sin to death through the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:13).
Christ decisively crushed the head of the serpent and stripped Satan of his ultimate condemning and enslaving power over God's elect. Satan is still active as a roaring lion (1 Peter 5:8), tempting, accusing, and trying deceiving believers.
The devil can entice, harass, and exploit the remaining weakness of the flesh, but he cannot force a regenerated believer to sin, nor can he possess or re-ensnare the heart of one who belongs to Christ.
The Holy Spirit residing within the believer is infinitely greater than any opposing spirit in the world (1 John 4:4), ensuring the believer's final perseverance.
Romans 8 does not teach that believers are set free from sin and death.
Verse 1 ("there is therefore now no condemnation") is a legal declaration of justification. God does not overlook sin, but executes the legal sentence of the Law upon Christ as the substitute. God achieved what human weakness could not (v. 3) by sending His Son. Christ bore the penalty (passive obedience) and fulfilled the perfect moral demands of the Law (active obedience) on behalf of the elect.
So Romans 7 does describe the normal Christian life under the power of the Holy Spirit. Let me remind you once again that Paul was indwelt by the Holy Spirit when he declared that he was still overpowered by his will to do evil. The murderer and adulterer, David was also a born again believer when he committed those sins.
The conflict in Galatians 5:17 is not teaching that believers win the conflict over sin and Satan in this life. This is why you, me and every other person on the planet sins every day of our lives. You can't deny this awful truth.
Gal 5:16 is only an exhortation, it's not a command or a condition for salvation. The writer knew very well that he doesn't always walk in the Spirit, so why would he set such a condition for salvation while he knows it's impossible to meet.
I think you're reading more into my position than I've actually said.
First, I never argued that Galatians 5:16 is a condition for salvation.
Paul is writing to believers and exhorting believers how to live.
The issue is sanctification, not justification.
Second, Romans 8 does not merely repeat the legal declaration of justification.
Romans 8:2 says, "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
Romans 8:4 goes on to describe those "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
Paul is not only discussing a change of verdict.
He is discussing a change of life produced by the Spirit.
Third, saying believers still sin is not the same thing as saying believers remain in perpetual captivity to sin.
Romans 7 describes a man crying, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me?"
Romans 8 answers that cry with the Spirit's liberating work.
If Romans 7 and Romans 8 describe exactly the same condition, Paul's contrast loses much of its force.
David's adultery and murder prove that believers can fall into serious sin.
They do not prove that sin remains the believer's master.
In fact, David's repentance demonstrates the opposite.
Likewise, Galatians 5:17 teaches conflict between flesh and Spirit.
But conflict is not defeat.
Paul immediately follows with, "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh" (Gal. 5:16).
If victory over the flesh were impossible, the exhortation would be meaningless.
So the question is not whether Christians still sin.
We all agree they do.
The question is whether the New Testament presents the normal Christian life as ongoing bondage to sin or as a Spirit-empowered struggle in which sin no longer has dominion.
Romans 6:14 explicitly says, "sin shall not have dominion over you."
That seems difficult to reconcile with the idea that Romans 7's captivity is the permanent norm for every Spirit-filled believer.
Sounds like your doctrine can not handle that the prodigal started off in the family.
Sad that you need that rewritten.
Lay aside doctrine and understand the parable.
Hello, that same father in tge parable REPRESENTS the heavenly Father.
Before you were saved your father was the devil.
You, changed the parable to say the prodigal lived down the street and started FROM ANOTHER FAMILY.
Your problem is in not understanding COVENANT.
The prodigal STARTED off in the family.
He sat at HIS HEAVENLY FATHERS TABLE.
Ahem...he left his heaveny father.
How on earth could you change the bible honestly???????
You walked up to the barn with a shotgun, fired both barrels at it, and missed from 2 ft away.
Fire that baptist pastor immediately.
Galatians 5:16 does not teach that believers are sanctified by choosing to obey the command to walk in the Spirit. Believers lack any inherent spiritual power to produce holiness or conquer sin.
Believers stand in constant need of the actual aid of the Holy Spirit for every act of obedience. The command to "walk" does not imply human self-sufficiency; rather, it is a summons to rely on God's active, internal provision. The Holy Spirit is the ultimate agent who mortifies the flesh and bears fruit in the Christian.
Romans 8:2 teaches that believers are permanently freed from the penalty and ruling power of sin and death, but not yet free from the presence of daily sin. Romans 8:2 flows directly from 8:1 ("there is therefore now no condemnation").
Believers are legally and eternally freed from the guilt of sin and the ultimate punishment of spiritual death.
As seen in Romans 7, indwelling sin remains in the Christian. Believers are still overcome by temptation and commit sins daily, in a lifelong war against the flesh.
So Romans 7 describes the reality of being overwhelmed by temptation everyday. While Romans 8 declares that believers are forgiven for all of our past, present and future sins. So we don't need to fear any judgement or punishment. That's the good news, which is cause for great joy.
Nobody claimed that sin was David's or Pauls master, the claim is that we can rejoice in the knowledge that Christ has already paid for every sin so none of us will be punished for them. If you're at war with the enemy, then the enemy is not your master. The enemy can only be your master if they have the final victory.
You never have the final victory in this life, because it's impossible. Your enemy is infinitely more powerful than you are so you have no chance of victory against the enemy.
The exhortation in Romans 8 is to fight, it's not to give you false hope of some non existent victory against the flesh.