For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?

[Kerry]

What does all that illustration and the law point to? Answer the cross.

 

[Kerry]

Notice the size of the alter which represent mercy and the size of the holy of holies which represents judgement . The are the same. Gods mercy is as big as His judgement.

 

[Isdaniel]

What does all that illustration and the law point to? Answer the cross.

hmm God law is in the heavens and he sit on it just like the one in the tabernacle hmm cherubs surroud the mercy seat hmm in the tabernacle and in the heavens

And many say what law the commandments are done away hmm God does not say that

 

[Isdaniel]

[h=3]Deuteronomy 10[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

1 “At that time the Lord said unto me, ‘Hew thee two tablets of stone like unto the first, and come up unto Me onto the mount, and make thee an ark of wood.
2 And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets which thou didst break, and thou shalt put them in the ark.’
3 And I made an ark of shittim wood and hewed two tablets of stone like unto the first, and went up onto the mount, having the two tablets in mine hand.
4 And He wrote on the tablets, according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the Lord spoke unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the Lord gave them unto me.
5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the Lord commanded me.”

 

[Kerry]

Umm those ten simple rules you cannot keep try as you may. Thats why we need the cross or did God make a mistake?

 

[Isdaniel]

Umm those ten simple rules you cannot keep try as you may. Thats why we need the cross or did God make a mistake?

The Holy Spirit help us to keep them hmmm what is the cross to thee ?

 

[Kerry]

What law did the THIEF on the cross keep? The cross is the means and the way, there is no other way.

 

[JaumeJ]

In hope, he believed Yeshua, and this is Salvation for anyone for Jesus is Salvation.

 

[just-me]

If you read the Bible close, the tables of stone are instructions for the priesthood and the building of the temple, not the ten commandments. The ten commandments were the very first of the law given, and much more reading in Exodus chapters 20 thru 23. Moses wrote then down after telling Israel what God had said. They were moral laws. The tablets of stone were given to Moses starting 2 days after that in the time frame of 40 days and 40 nights. Starting in chapter 25.

Deut. 4:13. And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

I stand corrected. I will have to look into that more because it appears in Exodus 25 that God said that He would then write on stones after the ten commandments, and much more than them were given starting with tee Ten Commandments in Exodus 20.

I still say that the law, by itself is not a covenant. A covenant is an agreement between two parties promising to live up to the words that it contains. *Exodus 24:3

Exodus chapters 20 through 24 are the words which this agreement contains. This is what happened on the third day of the third month. There was smoke on the mountain with lightning and all. In chronological order, this is how it is recorded in Exodus.
1. The Ten Commandment were given Exodus 20:1-17
2. Directions of making an altar Exodus 20: 24-26
3. Directions of master servant relations Exodus 21:1-11
4. Directions about personal injury Exodus 21:12-36
5. Directions of property rights Exodus 22:1-15
6. Directions of crimes against humanity Exodus 22:16-31, and 23:1-9
7. Directions of how to take care of the promised land and the Sabbath years Exodus 23:10-13
8. Directions for the 3 annual feasts (described in more detail in Leviticus chapter 23) Exodus 23:14-19
9. Directions of the promise of conquering the promised land Exodus 23:20-33
10. Directions of order and worship Exodus 24:1-2

One probably might want to consider these ten directives that were given all at the same time, rather than just chapter 20. Ya think? After all that, the people agreed to these directives, and that agreement is a covenant.

*Exodus 24:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

After these agreement was complete, Moses wrote the words thereof.

Exodus 24:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

Then God said that Moses should come up the mountain where He would give the tablets of stone.

Exodus 24:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

I should have said that the directions given previously might have also been written on these tables of stone. There seems to be a contradiction with this and Deuteronomy 4:13, but there really isn't. One would have to acknowledge that what Moses wrote down was also put on tablets of stone. The final day of the feast of weeks is the day that this next verse describes. The 5th day of the 3rd month which happens to be a Sabbath day.

Exodus 24:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and Moses went up into the mount of God.

The Sabbath following is described in this scripture which happens to be the 12th day of the month, and is also a Sabbath day.

Exodus 24:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

As I see it, all that would be given to Moses within the next 40 days were to be put into the ark of the covenant. So the Ark contains the agreement the people promised to keep, but they didn't. People broke the covenant, but God will never negate His own words that the covenant contains. The Ark contains the agreement, and the agreement contains the law.



Exodus 25:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

The agreement becomes annulled, or disannulled because of the failure from one or both parties. God didn't fail, and neither did His words that are contained in this covenant. Mankind failed, so this agreement didn't work, even though the words with this agreement are God's Holy Word. If He wasn't merciful to forgive, and provide to us one who can hold up to the agreement, where would we be?

Romans 7:24-25 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul didn't neglect the law as some professing Christians do, he thought about it, and contemplated it's rightful purpose. If we are going to believe what he taught, shouldn't we strive to do the same?

 

[john832]

What does all that illustration and the law point to? Answer the cross.

No, it does not. The stake is not the completion of God's plan by a long shot. The death of Christ on the stake was only one (a very important one) step in the plan of God. There is the early harvest at His return. There is the latter and great harvest at the end of the age. There is the Lake of Fire to purge the earth of all sin and the result of sin. Then there is the New Heavens and New Earth and the Father bringing His Throne to the earth. Of the Feast Days, only the Passover and Wave Sheaf complete. The world is yet to be unleavened, yet to have the early harvest of Pentecost. The Feast of Trumpets (the return of Christ and the Day (year) of the Lord) certainly has not yet been fulfilled. The world is not at one with God (Atonement). The MIllenium has surely not been fulfilled, neither has the Last Great Day (the GWTJ).

The stake was but one step in the awesome plan of God.

 

[TheAristocat]

ya mean there's no FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK IN GOD'S PLAN?

mkay.

Pentecost happened on the first day of the week! The Church was born on the first day of the week! That doesn't make Sunday the Sabbath, it just tells you that after the resurrection of Jesus, the Sabbath is not emphasized.

When a day is mentioned in connection with the appearances of the risen Lord Jesus, it is always the first day of the week. Look at the extremely important events that occurred in the life of the first followers of Christ on the first day of the week.

1). Jesus startled them by appearing to them on the first day (John 20:19).

2). Jesus received worship from Thomas (John 20:27-28).

3). Sunday evening Jesus took bread and blessed it and broke it and gave it to His disciples evidently like He had in instituting the communion meal (Luke 22:19) and their "eyes were opened and they recognized Him" (Luke 24:31).

4). Sunday evening Jesus blessed His disciples twice saying "Peace be with you" (John 20:20; 26).

5). That same Sunday evening Jesus "...breathed on them and said, 'receive the Holy Spirit'" John 20:22.

6). On Sunday evening Jesus gave His disciples the ecclesiastical authority to proclaim forgiveness to those who believe in Him through the Gospel (John 20:23).

The Sabbath & Sunday

Sounds like nothing was done on the Sabbath. I guess that means we're supposed to rest on it.

 

[Isdaniel]

What law did the THIEF on the cross keep? The cross is the means and the way, there is no other way.

hm that was one special thief hmmmWhat law did the other break ?

 

[danschance]

I wonder thru all the many, many posts on keeping the sabbath or not if a single person's mind has been changed.

 

[morninglory]

Dissembling means to deceive.

Reversal of circumcision (Epispasm) was actually a medical procedure performed in Roman times on Jews who were ashamed to perform naked in the gymnasiums because the Romans made fun of their circumcised units. So yes, they could become uncircumcised.

For your reading pleasure: Epispasm: Circumcision in Reverse

Sorry, but I have already defeated "the winds of doctrine" by familiarizing myself with the whole and express word of God, so save your links that do nothing but distract. And you need to look up the word "dissemble", because Peter was the minister to the circumcison, and when he was feasting with the Gentiles, Paul said he and other Jews were dissembling. The first definition of dissembling is "to conceal under a false appearance".

And by-the-way, you cannot put the foreskin back on once it has been cut off, so the reference was for the unruly Believers not to co-mingle with the disciplined Believers. That was the work of the Holy Spirit in the fulness of times. Sorry you are against his works...

 

[john832]

This is a non sequitur (the conclusion does not follow from the premise). It doesn't follow that just because something is spiritual, holy and good GOD won't do away with it. The law has served its spiritual, holy and good purpose, but since it is powerless to help man's condition, GOD did away with the old to bring in the new that is better.

For what was impossible for the law in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the requirement of the law would be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4

But now [Christ] has attained a more excellent ministry, by as much as he is also mediator of a better covenant which has been enacted upon better promises. For if that first [old] covenant had been faultless, occasion would not have been sought for a second [new covenant]. Hebrews 8:6-7​

OK, what was the problem? The Law?


Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

The fault was not the Law, the fault was the people did not have the heart to obey God...

Deu 29:4 Yet the LORD has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.

Deu 5:29 Oh, that they had such a heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My commandments, that it might be well with them and with their children forever!

And here is where we differ. You believe that the fix is to do away with the Law. I believe what God says...

Deu 30:1 "Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the LORD your God drives you,
Deu 30:2 and you return to the LORD your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul,
Deu 30:3 that the LORD your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the LORD your God has scattered you.
Deu 30:4 If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you.
Deu 30:5 Then the LORD your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.
Deu 30:6 And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

Which is the New Covenant...

Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

(NKJV throughout)

 

[just-me]

I wonder thru all the many, many posts on keeping the sabbath or not if a single person's mind has been changed.

Hasn't done a thing to edify. Too much pride, and more fear of admitting ones mistakes than the fear of the Lord.

Proverbs 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 1:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Proverbs 9:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Isaiah 33:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.

Acts 17:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

It all has to do with getting the point across more than the heart of love that instigates edification. There's a lot of talking about love being the fullness of the law, but very little action given to that which God commands. Ever notice some people comparing scriptures with old and new, and others just using one or the other? If the law is spiritual, then we should understand that stuff in relation to the new. No one can convince me that they are speaking the truth when they cannot comprehend the spiritual concepts of the Mosaic Law as relative to Christ. He didn't take it away by His own words, what gives some people the right thinking they can do what Jesus didn't? If Moses' writings are not current, neither is Jesus.

John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[JaumeJ]

A multitude of minds have been changed since our Father taught us which day is the Seventh, but not one person will ever change the mind of the Father. Six days He worked, and on the Seventh Day He rested. To rest with Him is an honor, a privilege and a commandment.

I wonder thru all the many, many posts on keeping the sabbath or not if a single person's mind

has been changed.

 

[john832]

A multitude of minds have been changed since our Father taught us which day is the Seventh, but not one person will ever change the mind of the Father. Six days He worked, and on the Seventh Day He rested. To rest with Him is an honor, a privilege and a commandment.

What a stunningly brilliant comment. Thanks my friend. (Could I use this in the future?)

 

[JaumeJ]

If I ever post anything here that is truly what you say, it is not from me, you know where it is from, and that is public domain....

What a stunningly brilliant comment. Thanks my friend. (Could I use this in the future?)

 

[morninglory]

What Holy days ?

All of the feasts and Sabbaths that God gave his children are Holy days.