How Believers Are Clothed
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Hi Skinski
Can I ask?
What are the deeds/works you do for God to prove you have put your flesh to death and have a pure heart?
Do you give all your spare money to the poor?
Do you put people up in your home who have nowhere to live?
Do you run a soup kitchen maybe for the homeless?
Do you encourage the crushed, blind, lame, oppressed, who are burdened by Pahariseeical types?
Or do you just come on the internet and write pamphlets telling others how YOU have put YOUR flesh to death, and YOU have a completely pure heart.
Just curious
Can I ask?
What are the deeds/works you do for God to prove you have put your flesh to death and have a pure heart?
Do you give all your spare money to the poor?
Do you put people up in your home who have nowhere to live?
Do you run a soup kitchen maybe for the homeless?
Do you encourage the crushed, blind, lame, oppressed, who are burdened by Pahariseeical types?
Or do you just come on the internet and write pamphlets telling others how YOU have put YOUR flesh to death, and YOU have a completely pure heart.
Just curious
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P
Isaiah 42:3, speaking of Jesus, says,
"a bruised reed He will not break, and a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish."Thank God. ♥
"a bruised reed He will not break, and a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish."Thank God. ♥
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To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: [SUP]10 [/SUP]“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[SUP][a][/SUP] himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Luke 18:9-14
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Luke 18:9-14
no his goal in life is to crush again those who have looked to and been saved and healed; or are looking to Jesus for salvation and healing.
they are relentless in it, and i imagine they've managed to maim and injure untold numbers. scattering them. separating them from the flock and dragging them down.
they have a little club who send out frame-up letters to pastors to get pastors to respond to something like:
"can an axe-murdering child molestor be saved in the midst of committing his crime"...< a sliding scale of this, usually about porn, which is quite amusing - i think they protest too much.
then when the pastor attempts to answer in any fashion other than - "all sin must cease (sinlessness) before a man may be saved" (we're never sure what salvation is)...the pastors private communications are complied and then posted online under the scarlet letter of LICENTIOUS DECEIVERS or some other thing. they hate the church.
they have made an idol of a barely literate lone wolf 'teacher' who rejects all orthodoxy, based on his willful sin of willfully never learning what willful sin is - rebellion.
they don't believe willful sin/rebellion forgiven.
they're putting all their money on this single presupposition.
the heavier they can make the burden, the better.
their claims are that they are among the tiny few who stopped sinning (when pressed they'll say they mean willful sin/rebellion); and they suffered at the hands of the evil church until they finally put 2 and 2 together and discovered they had to be sinless before God would stop breathing fire on them and let them anywhere near Jesus.
we're not sure what they need Jesus for, since they purified themsleves and became sinless before they were justified. apparently Christ died for no purpose.
this has been actually articulated, as they admit they don't understand the Atonement.
it's been postulated God paid off our sin debt to satan. things like that.
it appears, naturally, since they are 'arminians' (an insult to classical arminians who do believe in Christ's Righteousness), that in some mysterious way one is either:
1) justified, then has to keep being justified over and over (self-justification)
2) justification and sanctification are synonymous and instant and happen before salvation (figure that out) otherwise the sinner (or saint?) is deceived and going to hell.
3) even though any combination of the above is true....they themselves are the exception. we're never told how to verify this.
4) when asked if they sin, the answer is no: they make mistakes. how making mistakes are possible when one is sinless and perfect (change that to heart purity when cornered) we're never really told.
5) since they are finneyite pelagians...who don't have a sinful or fallen nature; who have stopped their willful sin (any other kind are mistakes) before they were saved, we still can't figure out WHY CHRIST LIVED UNDER THE LAW AND DIED ON THE CROSS.
since man isn't fallen, and with a lot of hard work is able to be sinless (according to Law) before coming to Christ, Christ died for no reason. that's where they kinda struggle to explain the Atonement. maybe it was satan who God owed something to.
Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
pasha: to rebel, transgress
Original Word: פָּשַׁע
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pasha
Phonetic Spelling: (paw-shah')
Short Definition: transgressed
to rebel, transgress
been in rebellion (1), committed (1), offended (1), rebel (1), rebelled (6), rebellion (1), revolted (7), transgress (3), transgressed (10), transgressing (1), transgression (1), transgressors (8).
offend, rebel, revolt, transgression,
A primitive root (identical with pasa' through the idea of expansion); to break away (from just authority), i.e. Trespass, apostatize, quarrel -- offend, rebel, revolt, transgress(-ion, -or).
Isaiah 53:12
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great and he shall divide the spoil with the strong because he hath poured out his soul unto death and he was numbered with the transgressors and he bare the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors
~
this little group hates these passages. whenever they are brought out to show that Christ died for transgressors and makes intercession for transgressors, and forgives transgressions which are confessed, they fall back into their default mantra "you're just looking for excuses to sin".
nothing new. they're Pharisees. they take delight in crushing the wounded.
Psalm 32:5
Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD"--and you forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
adikos: unjust, unrighteous
Original Word: ἄδικος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: adikos
Phonetic Spelling: (ad'-ee-kos)
Short Definition: unjust, unrighteous
Definition: unjust, unrighteous, wicked.
they are relentless in it, and i imagine they've managed to maim and injure untold numbers. scattering them. separating them from the flock and dragging them down.
they have a little club who send out frame-up letters to pastors to get pastors to respond to something like:
"can an axe-murdering child molestor be saved in the midst of committing his crime"...< a sliding scale of this, usually about porn, which is quite amusing - i think they protest too much.
then when the pastor attempts to answer in any fashion other than - "all sin must cease (sinlessness) before a man may be saved" (we're never sure what salvation is)...the pastors private communications are complied and then posted online under the scarlet letter of LICENTIOUS DECEIVERS or some other thing. they hate the church.
they have made an idol of a barely literate lone wolf 'teacher' who rejects all orthodoxy, based on his willful sin of willfully never learning what willful sin is - rebellion.
they don't believe willful sin/rebellion forgiven.
they're putting all their money on this single presupposition.
the heavier they can make the burden, the better.
their claims are that they are among the tiny few who stopped sinning (when pressed they'll say they mean willful sin/rebellion); and they suffered at the hands of the evil church until they finally put 2 and 2 together and discovered they had to be sinless before God would stop breathing fire on them and let them anywhere near Jesus.
we're not sure what they need Jesus for, since they purified themsleves and became sinless before they were justified. apparently Christ died for no purpose.
this has been actually articulated, as they admit they don't understand the Atonement.
it's been postulated God paid off our sin debt to satan. things like that.
it appears, naturally, since they are 'arminians' (an insult to classical arminians who do believe in Christ's Righteousness), that in some mysterious way one is either:
1) justified, then has to keep being justified over and over (self-justification)
2) justification and sanctification are synonymous and instant and happen before salvation (figure that out) otherwise the sinner (or saint?) is deceived and going to hell.
3) even though any combination of the above is true....they themselves are the exception. we're never told how to verify this.
4) when asked if they sin, the answer is no: they make mistakes. how making mistakes are possible when one is sinless and perfect (change that to heart purity when cornered) we're never really told.
5) since they are finneyite pelagians...who don't have a sinful or fallen nature; who have stopped their willful sin (any other kind are mistakes) before they were saved, we still can't figure out WHY CHRIST LIVED UNDER THE LAW AND DIED ON THE CROSS.
since man isn't fallen, and with a lot of hard work is able to be sinless (according to Law) before coming to Christ, Christ died for no reason. that's where they kinda struggle to explain the Atonement. maybe it was satan who God owed something to.
Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
pasha: to rebel, transgress
Original Word: פָּשַׁע
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pasha
Phonetic Spelling: (paw-shah')
Short Definition: transgressed
to rebel, transgress
been in rebellion (1), committed (1), offended (1), rebel (1), rebelled (6), rebellion (1), revolted (7), transgress (3), transgressed (10), transgressing (1), transgression (1), transgressors (8).
offend, rebel, revolt, transgression,
A primitive root (identical with pasa' through the idea of expansion); to break away (from just authority), i.e. Trespass, apostatize, quarrel -- offend, rebel, revolt, transgress(-ion, -or).
Isaiah 53:12
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great and he shall divide the spoil with the strong because he hath poured out his soul unto death and he was numbered with the transgressors and he bare the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors
~
this little group hates these passages. whenever they are brought out to show that Christ died for transgressors and makes intercession for transgressors, and forgives transgressions which are confessed, they fall back into their default mantra "you're just looking for excuses to sin".
nothing new. they're Pharisees. they take delight in crushing the wounded.
Psalm 32:5
Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD"--and you forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
adikos: unjust, unrighteous
Original Word: ἄδικος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: adikos
Phonetic Spelling: (ad'-ee-kos)
Short Definition: unjust, unrighteous
Definition: unjust, unrighteous, wicked.
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It's all very subtle, but when you link salvation to deeds/works(which has to be of the law) You are telling someone in effect that salvation depends on works, obediance to the law. That places the convert under law. Thats why so many sincere of heart people end up in a worse mess than they were before they came to God. Such acceptance is beyond these people, for I am afraid their words simply speak to me of self promotion
IE
Look at me, I put my own flesh to death. I crucified my flesh. I have made my heart pure by my own effort. I am reminded of Paul's words for those who insisted on circumcision, I believe the same applies here for those who in effect place a person under law by what they write. The two go hand in hand:
See what large letters I use as I write to youwith my own hand!
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for thecross of Christ. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. [SUP]14 [/SUP]May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord JesusChrist, through which[SUP][b][/SUP] the world has been crucified to me, andI to the world. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision meansanything; what counts is a new creation. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Peace and mercy to allwho follow this rule, even to the Israel of God
IE
Look at me, I put my own flesh to death. I crucified my flesh. I have made my heart pure by my own effort. I am reminded of Paul's words for those who insisted on circumcision, I believe the same applies here for those who in effect place a person under law by what they write. The two go hand in hand:
See what large letters I use as I write to youwith my own hand!
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for thecross of Christ. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. [SUP]14 [/SUP]May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord JesusChrist, through which[SUP][b][/SUP] the world has been crucified to me, andI to the world. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision meansanything; what counts is a new creation. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Peace and mercy to allwho follow this rule, even to the Israel of God
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The obedience from us is to believe Him. If you aquaint never sinning ever again as a means to save yourself, then you are not believing Him to be your Saviour, let alone your Good Shepherd.
If we could not save ourselves for which we need the Saviour, then neither can we follow Him since His commandments are higher than the works of the law for which we need Him as our Good Shepherd. Both is done by His grace & by His help. That is why it is written that the just shall live by faith in Him & all His promises to us that we shall follow Him by faith.
If you say you have never sinned since you were saved, but just made mistakes, then you need to read the Book of 1 John 1st chapter where he was addressing believers that lived in sin because to them, sin was no longer sin and so they believed they have not sinned which was why they continued to walk in darkness, and thus out of fellowship with the Father & the Son.
You should know that if any believer bears witness of himself in seeking his own glory to receive praise from men, it is a false witness and thus he is defiling himself.
John 5:[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
John 7:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Matthew 15:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, [SUP]8 [/SUP]This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: [SUP]11 [/SUP]Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man....[SUP]18 [/SUP]But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: [SUP]20[/SUP]These are the things which defile a man:
Philippians 3:[SUP]9 [/SUP]And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
If we could not save ourselves for which we need the Saviour, then neither can we follow Him since His commandments are higher than the works of the law for which we need Him as our Good Shepherd. Both is done by His grace & by His help. That is why it is written that the just shall live by faith in Him & all His promises to us that we shall follow Him by faith.
If you say you have never sinned since you were saved, but just made mistakes, then you need to read the Book of 1 John 1st chapter where he was addressing believers that lived in sin because to them, sin was no longer sin and so they believed they have not sinned which was why they continued to walk in darkness, and thus out of fellowship with the Father & the Son.
You should know that if any believer bears witness of himself in seeking his own glory to receive praise from men, it is a false witness and thus he is defiling himself.
John 5:[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
John 7:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Matthew 15:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, [SUP]8 [/SUP]This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: [SUP]11 [/SUP]Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man....[SUP]18 [/SUP]But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: [SUP]20[/SUP]These are the things which defile a man:
Philippians 3:[SUP]9 [/SUP]And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
they don't believe in Christ's Substitutionary Death OR Life.
they don't understand why the Law was brought in and that it was for transgressions. that God added the Law OUT OF LOVE, so that through the types and shadows of the sacrificial system He could teach the people over hundreds of years how serious sin and rebellion is (eternally fatal)...AND point to the Coming Redeemer Who would live Perfectly under that Law, fulfilling all requirements, so God might be both Just, and the Justifier (full aquittal) of the ungodly.
they never understood the most basic Gospel.
their teacher so hates protitiation and imputed righteousness, not understanding the power of the God-breathed Scriptures, the Holy Spirit's Comission and power - all these things GIVEN for the salvation of souls and the delivering of men to eternal life....with a Merciful and Loving God.
they know He is angry with the wicked every day. they KNOW no sinner will enter His Presence and survive.
but they abhor the idea that God was pleased to crush His own Son for sinners. so much so they go to Judaism; Ante-Nicene gnostics; Catholicism...anywhere they can to get away from the idea that GOD call things that are not as though they were.
they don't understand they new birth.
they are like roving stars, foaming waves who have not even understood the simple Plan of God.
in their willful pride and willful sin and willful unbelief and willful fear they have suppressed the BEAUTIFUL truth in their willful unrighteousness.
Romans 4:17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
...
they don't understand why the Law was brought in and that it was for transgressions. that God added the Law OUT OF LOVE, so that through the types and shadows of the sacrificial system He could teach the people over hundreds of years how serious sin and rebellion is (eternally fatal)...AND point to the Coming Redeemer Who would live Perfectly under that Law, fulfilling all requirements, so God might be both Just, and the Justifier (full aquittal) of the ungodly.
they never understood the most basic Gospel.
their teacher so hates protitiation and imputed righteousness, not understanding the power of the God-breathed Scriptures, the Holy Spirit's Comission and power - all these things GIVEN for the salvation of souls and the delivering of men to eternal life....with a Merciful and Loving God.
they know He is angry with the wicked every day. they KNOW no sinner will enter His Presence and survive.
but they abhor the idea that God was pleased to crush His own Son for sinners. so much so they go to Judaism; Ante-Nicene gnostics; Catholicism...anywhere they can to get away from the idea that GOD call things that are not as though they were.
they don't understand they new birth.
they are like roving stars, foaming waves who have not even understood the simple Plan of God.
in their willful pride and willful sin and willful unbelief and willful fear they have suppressed the BEAUTIFUL truth in their willful unrighteousness.
Romans 4:17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
...
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Romans 5
Peace with God Through Faith
1Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, wea have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2Through him we have also obtained access by faithb into this grace in which we stand, and wec rejoiced in hope of the glory of God. 3More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5and hope does not put us to shame, because God
eh....chapter wont paste.
look it up skinski
Peace with God Through Faith
1Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, wea have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2Through him we have also obtained access by faithb into this grace in which we stand, and wec rejoiced in hope of the glory of God. 3More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5and hope does not put us to shame, because God
eh....chapter wont paste.
look it up skinski
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no, you're viewed as divisive heretics because that's what you are.
you feel opposed because you are divisive heretics.
you're not teaching what the Bible teaches at all.
you don't even know What Christ Came for or What He did.
you don't understand any of it.
so, i am against you.
again, i see guys like you ALL THE TIME.
you get smarter as time goes on and learn to cover up the more glaring contradictions and heresies.
OR, best case scenario, you ever DO come to the truth, you slink away, never come back and redress your wrongs against the brothers, or you appear later and pretend you never believed or said the things you did.
why would you?
you don't understand confession now - why would you do it later?
you feel opposed because you are divisive heretics.
you're not teaching what the Bible teaches at all.
you don't even know What Christ Came for or What He did.
you don't understand any of it.
so, i am against you.
again, i see guys like you ALL THE TIME.
you get smarter as time goes on and learn to cover up the more glaring contradictions and heresies.
OR, best case scenario, you ever DO come to the truth, you slink away, never come back and redress your wrongs against the brothers, or you appear later and pretend you never believed or said the things you did.
why would you?
you don't understand confession now - why would you do it later?
John was battling dualistic gnostic heresies.
see if there's any way you can grasp this SCOTT:
1 John 1
Walking in the Light
5This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
see if there's any way you can grasp this SCOTT:
1 John 1
Walking in the Light
5This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
You misunderstand me completely.
It is not an issue of doing deeds "to prove anything." Deeds are simply the fruit of being in Christ. Thus an individual who is in Christ walks by a faith which works by love and thus the conduct of their life will be manifested righteous conduct.
People can "feed the poor," "run a soup kitchen," "write pamphlets," etc. for all manner of reasons but those deeds MEAN NOTHING if they are not done in LOVE. Paul addressed this very issue in 1Cor 13.
1Cor 13:1-6
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Without love all else is vanity. Love is the root of true righteousness. Hence we are not justified by the law but by a FAITH THAT WORKS BY LOVE. When we abide in Jesus Christ it is God that manifests love through us. It is by His grace we are saved. The flesh apart from the grace of God is but a mere beast of passions, hence we have to be connected to our Creator.
Here is what the Bible teaches...
1John 3:9-11
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
Do you believe that passage Mark? Do you believe John when he plainly says that the manifested conduct of an individual reveals whether they are a child of God or a child of the devil?
There are those on here who cling to the doctrine of the "imputed righteousness of Christ" whereby it can be taught that one can be MANIFESTING WICKEDNESS and at the same time be a child of God and righteous in Christ. Verse 10 above clearly states that those who "doeth not righteousness is not of God" which is the same sentiment of this scripture...
1Joh 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Righteousness is in DOING. John warns in this verse for us not to be deceived about this. The outward conduct must match up with the profession. Any person who is professing Jesus Christ but walks in wickedness is lying to themselves and lying to others. We know Him IF we keep His commandments. These are not my words, this is what John taught...
1Joh 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Joh 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Joh 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Joh 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
The love of God is perfected in those who keep His word. I went over this in my previous posts.
Here is another passage from John...
1Joh 3:18-24
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
John clearly teaches us to love not just in word but rather to love in DEED and in TRUTH. In other words it must be REAL and the REALITY MUST BE MANIFEST in our ACTIONS. Otherwise it is mere lip service.
What is it that condemns a man? John speaks of the heart in verse 21 and how if our heart condemns us not we have confidence towards God. This is because the just "walk by faith," their heart is set on God, it has been purified, there is no ill intent towards their neighbour. They may fall short in ignorance, but they don't harbour selfishness, through Christ they have overcome the works of the devil.
We KNOW we abide in Him by the Spirit we have been given. We keep His commandments which simply means we abide in the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is what the Bible teaches.
There is not a single thing in the Bible about a "cloak of righteousness" which covers a person "while they are still wicked." God imputes people righteous yes but it is FAITH which is counted as righteousness, it has nothing to do with a the literal righteousness of Jesus Christ cloaking you while you remain defiled in your sin.
So instead of people addressing the points I raise they instead attempt to discredit the messenger. They attempt to divert attention away from what the Bible plainly teaches.
The doctrine of the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ To the Believer" is a doctrine which originated out of the Reformation and especially out of the works of Martin Luther. You won't find it taught before then.
It is not an issue of doing deeds "to prove anything." Deeds are simply the fruit of being in Christ. Thus an individual who is in Christ walks by a faith which works by love and thus the conduct of their life will be manifested righteous conduct.
People can "feed the poor," "run a soup kitchen," "write pamphlets," etc. for all manner of reasons but those deeds MEAN NOTHING if they are not done in LOVE. Paul addressed this very issue in 1Cor 13.
1Cor 13:1-6
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Without love all else is vanity. Love is the root of true righteousness. Hence we are not justified by the law but by a FAITH THAT WORKS BY LOVE. When we abide in Jesus Christ it is God that manifests love through us. It is by His grace we are saved. The flesh apart from the grace of God is but a mere beast of passions, hence we have to be connected to our Creator.
Here is what the Bible teaches...
1John 3:9-11
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
Do you believe that passage Mark? Do you believe John when he plainly says that the manifested conduct of an individual reveals whether they are a child of God or a child of the devil?
There are those on here who cling to the doctrine of the "imputed righteousness of Christ" whereby it can be taught that one can be MANIFESTING WICKEDNESS and at the same time be a child of God and righteous in Christ. Verse 10 above clearly states that those who "doeth not righteousness is not of God" which is the same sentiment of this scripture...
1Joh 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Righteousness is in DOING. John warns in this verse for us not to be deceived about this. The outward conduct must match up with the profession. Any person who is professing Jesus Christ but walks in wickedness is lying to themselves and lying to others. We know Him IF we keep His commandments. These are not my words, this is what John taught...
1Joh 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Joh 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Joh 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Joh 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
The love of God is perfected in those who keep His word. I went over this in my previous posts.
Here is another passage from John...
1Joh 3:18-24
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
John clearly teaches us to love not just in word but rather to love in DEED and in TRUTH. In other words it must be REAL and the REALITY MUST BE MANIFEST in our ACTIONS. Otherwise it is mere lip service.
What is it that condemns a man? John speaks of the heart in verse 21 and how if our heart condemns us not we have confidence towards God. This is because the just "walk by faith," their heart is set on God, it has been purified, there is no ill intent towards their neighbour. They may fall short in ignorance, but they don't harbour selfishness, through Christ they have overcome the works of the devil.
We KNOW we abide in Him by the Spirit we have been given. We keep His commandments which simply means we abide in the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is what the Bible teaches.
There is not a single thing in the Bible about a "cloak of righteousness" which covers a person "while they are still wicked." God imputes people righteous yes but it is FAITH which is counted as righteousness, it has nothing to do with a the literal righteousness of Jesus Christ cloaking you while you remain defiled in your sin.
So instead of people addressing the points I raise they instead attempt to discredit the messenger. They attempt to divert attention away from what the Bible plainly teaches.
The doctrine of the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ To the Believer" is a doctrine which originated out of the Reformation and especially out of the works of Martin Luther. You won't find it taught before then.
Don't let anyone know when you do a good deed(wherever possible) keep it between you and your Father in Heaven who will reward you.
When(if) you fast the same. Don't let others know,(if this is possible) keep it between you and your Heavenly Father, otherwise you are a hypocrite
Do not judge, or you too will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you
If you call someone a fool you are in danger iof the fires of hell.
Don't resist violence. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn the other too, with nothing in your heart but love for the person who hit you.
If anyone takes what belongs to you(steals from you) don't demand/expect it back, have nothing in your heart but love for the person who stole from you
Love your enemies, do good to them, lend to them(including money) without ever expecting to get anything back
Don't invite friends and family for a meal, instead invite the poor, crippled, lame and blind so you may be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.
When men hate you, exclude you, and insult you and reject your name as evil, rejoice and leap for joy(from your heart)
You must never even look at a woman with lust in your eye, for if you do you have already committed adultery with her in your heart, and broken one of the Ten Commandments.
If someone steals an item of your clothing, offer them more with nothing but love in your herart for the persoin stealing from you
Skinski
Can you confirm that you fully strive to obey all of the above of Christ's teachings ceaselessly, and succeed
You haven't told me what works you do to express your Christian love for others
Can I ask again?
Do you feed the homeless/run a soup kitchen?
Put people up who have nohere to live?
Give all your speare money to the poor?
Just examples
Or do you feel your work for the Lord is simply to post the stuff you do on the internet
Only if you have cruicified your flesh and completely live for God and not yourself, how do you do this practically in your life?
Thanks
When(if) you fast the same. Don't let others know,(if this is possible) keep it between you and your Heavenly Father, otherwise you are a hypocrite
Do not judge, or you too will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you
If you call someone a fool you are in danger iof the fires of hell.
Don't resist violence. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn the other too, with nothing in your heart but love for the person who hit you.
If anyone takes what belongs to you(steals from you) don't demand/expect it back, have nothing in your heart but love for the person who stole from you
Love your enemies, do good to them, lend to them(including money) without ever expecting to get anything back
Don't invite friends and family for a meal, instead invite the poor, crippled, lame and blind so you may be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.
When men hate you, exclude you, and insult you and reject your name as evil, rejoice and leap for joy(from your heart)
You must never even look at a woman with lust in your eye, for if you do you have already committed adultery with her in your heart, and broken one of the Ten Commandments.
If someone steals an item of your clothing, offer them more with nothing but love in your herart for the persoin stealing from you
Skinski
Can you confirm that you fully strive to obey all of the above of Christ's teachings ceaselessly, and succeed
You haven't told me what works you do to express your Christian love for others
Can I ask again?
Do you feed the homeless/run a soup kitchen?
Put people up who have nohere to live?
Give all your speare money to the poor?
Just examples
Or do you feel your work for the Lord is simply to post the stuff you do on the internet
Only if you have cruicified your flesh and completely live for God and not yourself, how do you do this practically in your life?
Thanks
Mark,
When Paul taught this...
Eph 5:1-7
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Was he like the Pharisee in the parable you mentioned?
The Pharisee was counting on OUTWARD WORKS APART FROM THE GRACE OF GOD as his righteousness. No-one can approach God that way and this is what Jesus was teaching. We have ALL SINNED and thus we have to approach God with a broken contrite heart seeking His mercy like the tax collector did.
Yet people twist that passage and use it to decry the preaching of the doctrine according to godliness. The bottom line of my message is repentance and faith proven bu deeds. In other words we have to be broken on the rock of Jesus Christ whereby we "forsake self," whereby we "forsake walking out own way" and instead choose to yield to God. In yielding to God (I am crucified with Christ, it is no longer I that live but Christ that lives in me) the righteousness of God is manifested through us. Grace being the provision of God freely provided which we access through an obedient faith and the two working in conjunction (working together with God 2Cor 6:1) produce purity of heart.
The Pharisee in the parable above did not approach God in that manner. He may have had all manner of outward good deeds but without heart purity it means nothing. He was still dead in his sins and had not been reconciled to God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
The tax collector on the other hand sought the mercy of God just like the Prodigal Son. He humbled himself and confessed his rebellion.
No one who persists in their rebellion to God has humbled themselves before Him. Sin does not humble you, being broken on the rock of Christ through godly sorrow is what humbles you. In other words one yields to the working of God, of the Spirit, which convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.
When Paul taught this...
Eph 5:1-7
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Was he like the Pharisee in the parable you mentioned?
The Pharisee was counting on OUTWARD WORKS APART FROM THE GRACE OF GOD as his righteousness. No-one can approach God that way and this is what Jesus was teaching. We have ALL SINNED and thus we have to approach God with a broken contrite heart seeking His mercy like the tax collector did.
Yet people twist that passage and use it to decry the preaching of the doctrine according to godliness. The bottom line of my message is repentance and faith proven bu deeds. In other words we have to be broken on the rock of Jesus Christ whereby we "forsake self," whereby we "forsake walking out own way" and instead choose to yield to God. In yielding to God (I am crucified with Christ, it is no longer I that live but Christ that lives in me) the righteousness of God is manifested through us. Grace being the provision of God freely provided which we access through an obedient faith and the two working in conjunction (working together with God 2Cor 6:1) produce purity of heart.
The Pharisee in the parable above did not approach God in that manner. He may have had all manner of outward good deeds but without heart purity it means nothing. He was still dead in his sins and had not been reconciled to God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
The tax collector on the other hand sought the mercy of God just like the Prodigal Son. He humbled himself and confessed his rebellion.
No one who persists in their rebellion to God has humbled themselves before Him. Sin does not humble you, being broken on the rock of Christ through godly sorrow is what humbles you. In other words one yields to the working of God, of the Spirit, which convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.
I simply live by faith with my focus on God. The things of the world no longer mean anything to me. God purged then from me. I used to love the world and the things in the world but the love of the Father was not in me.
Yes I strive and through Christ I can do all things. That does not mean I never fall short due to a misunderstanding or negligence, but I simply get up again and move on. God chastens me when I am doing something wrong so as perfect holiness in me. I am not there yet but I am growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Nevertheless what often happens in these forums is that people continually attempt to divert attention from what the Scripture actually teaches. I ask questions and people avoid them and try and find some means by which they can discredit the messenger.
The scriptures mean what they say.
Yes I strive and through Christ I can do all things. That does not mean I never fall short due to a misunderstanding or negligence, but I simply get up again and move on. God chastens me when I am doing something wrong so as perfect holiness in me. I am not there yet but I am growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Nevertheless what often happens in these forums is that people continually attempt to divert attention from what the Scripture actually teaches. I ask questions and people avoid them and try and find some means by which they can discredit the messenger.
The scriptures mean what they say.
You see Skinski. In your post you wrote ther following:
We KNOW we abide in Him by the Spirit we have been given. We keep His commandments which simply means we abide in the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is what the Bible teaches.
.
But you are not confirming you dtrive to obey each and every day some of the teacghings of Christ I placed before you
If you are not ceaselessly trying to obey those teachings of Christ, you are demanding of others what you yourself do not attwempt to do. That must be the truth
We KNOW we abide in Him by the Spirit we have been given. We keep His commandments which simply means we abide in the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is what the Bible teaches.
.
But you are not confirming you dtrive to obey each and every day some of the teacghings of Christ I placed before you
If you are not ceaselessly trying to obey those teachings of Christ, you are demanding of others what you yourself do not attwempt to do. That must be the truth
Scripture states the following Skinski:
Paul told the Corinthian church that though they used to be slaves to sin they wholeheartedly followed the form of teaching to which they had been entrusted, so now they are slaves to righteousness
What was the core of his teaching on this matter?
So, my brothers, you also died to the lawthrough the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who wasraised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Forwhen we were controlled by the sinful nature,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the lawwere at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Butnow, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so thatwe serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the writtencode.(Rom7:4-6)
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin,but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shaltnot covet.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment,(oneof the ten commandments)wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sinrevived, and I died.
[SUP]10[/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life,I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment,deceived me, and by it slew me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me?God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by thatwhich is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom7:7-11 KJV
Do you tell people Skinski, that in order for a person to bear fruit for God(real truit) they must die to the law?
Do you tell them that when the commandment came to Paul(one of the ten Commandments) sin, the basic human nature to rebel against the rules/that which is good, used what was good and Holy to wrought all manner of concupiscence in Paul(I am sure you know the dictionary definition of that word)
And do you tell them because of this man has to look away from trying to be good enough/pure enough for God(which must be according to the law) and to Christ, and cling to him, trusting all the time that he died for their sins.
For when they look to Christ and not the flesh they are living by faith in Him and not the law/their own personal goodness. And if they do this sin shall not be their master for they are not under law but under grace(does not mean they will be perfect in the flesh)
And do you explain they do this because the power of sin is the law(explained in ch7 of Romans.) So they must look away from any reliance on their own personal goodness and to Christ.
And do you explain that under the new coveannt God has softened the heart of the convert, so they in their heart want to obey, they could never use the above as a licence to sin. They are trusting Christ for their hearts desire, obediance to him
And do you explain to them they are sanctified by the spirit not their own effort?
And do you tell them they can have absolutely no confidence in themselves/their own flesh to achieve anything(Phil3:3) it is all of what is done for them by the Spirit within as they trust in Christ and not themselves?
Hence their work is to believe in the one God sent and look to him
If you don't tell them all of that, you cannot expect anyone to change and for sin not to be their master-according to Paul
If you lead anyone to believe it is what THEY must do, you lead them to sin and defeat
It is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus and who put no confidence in the flesh PHIL3:3
Paul told the Corinthian church that though they used to be slaves to sin they wholeheartedly followed the form of teaching to which they had been entrusted, so now they are slaves to righteousness
What was the core of his teaching on this matter?
So, my brothers, you also died to the lawthrough the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who wasraised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Forwhen we were controlled by the sinful nature,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the lawwere at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Butnow, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so thatwe serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the writtencode.(Rom7:4-6)
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin,but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shaltnot covet.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment,(oneof the ten commandments)wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sinrevived, and I died.
[SUP]10[/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life,I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment,deceived me, and by it slew me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me?God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by thatwhich is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom7:7-11 KJV
Do you tell people Skinski, that in order for a person to bear fruit for God(real truit) they must die to the law?
Do you tell them that when the commandment came to Paul(one of the ten Commandments) sin, the basic human nature to rebel against the rules/that which is good, used what was good and Holy to wrought all manner of concupiscence in Paul(I am sure you know the dictionary definition of that word)
And do you tell them because of this man has to look away from trying to be good enough/pure enough for God(which must be according to the law) and to Christ, and cling to him, trusting all the time that he died for their sins.
For when they look to Christ and not the flesh they are living by faith in Him and not the law/their own personal goodness. And if they do this sin shall not be their master for they are not under law but under grace(does not mean they will be perfect in the flesh)
And do you explain they do this because the power of sin is the law(explained in ch7 of Romans.) So they must look away from any reliance on their own personal goodness and to Christ.
And do you explain that under the new coveannt God has softened the heart of the convert, so they in their heart want to obey, they could never use the above as a licence to sin. They are trusting Christ for their hearts desire, obediance to him
And do you explain to them they are sanctified by the spirit not their own effort?
And do you tell them they can have absolutely no confidence in themselves/their own flesh to achieve anything(Phil3:3) it is all of what is done for them by the Spirit within as they trust in Christ and not themselves?
Hence their work is to believe in the one God sent and look to him
If you don't tell them all of that, you cannot expect anyone to change and for sin not to be their master-according to Paul
If you lead anyone to believe it is what THEY must do, you lead them to sin and defeat
It is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus and who put no confidence in the flesh PHIL3:3
is any of that SIN skinski?
God won't be chastening you if you are not sinning.
can't even say it, can you.
"I am not there yet but I am growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ"
not where yet?
i thought you said you stopped sinning. no sin.
that means you're there.
if you have a perfect holiness, a pure heart and no sin, you are there.
which is it?
are you ever going to repent of your lying about your condition while demanding others wear a yoke you yourself do not bear?
are you ever going to renounce that nut who is opposed to Christ's Church and go back and make amends for the outrageous crimes you've committed against untold pastors?
because you know, that Christ forgives.
and i suspect everyone of those pastors you've sinned against would forgive you also.
you'd have to want to do it though.
you'd have to see your desperate need.
i wonder if you do.
God won't be chastening you if you are not sinning.
can't even say it, can you.
"I am not there yet but I am growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ"
not where yet?
i thought you said you stopped sinning. no sin.
that means you're there.
if you have a perfect holiness, a pure heart and no sin, you are there.
which is it?
are you ever going to repent of your lying about your condition while demanding others wear a yoke you yourself do not bear?
are you ever going to renounce that nut who is opposed to Christ's Church and go back and make amends for the outrageous crimes you've committed against untold pastors?
because you know, that Christ forgives.
and i suspect everyone of those pastors you've sinned against would forgive you also.
you'd have to want to do it though.
you'd have to see your desperate need.
i wonder if you do.
Indeed he was.
John was teaching that the outward conduct must match the profession. Thus one cannot be WALKING in darkness and be in fellowship with God. In fact one cannot be WALKING in darkness and be cleansed of all sin.
The doctrine of the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ" teaches that one can be cleansed and yet be WALKING in darkness. It is the same Gnostic heresy dressed up in new clothes. There truly is nothing new under the sun.
That is why Billy Graham can get up on stage and claim that he is wicked, that he has never been righteous all his life, and yet he is clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Billy Graham believes in a doctrine where MANIFEST DEEDS have been disconnected from the STATE OF THE HEART.
The Gnostics taught that "matter" trapped "light" and thus the human soul was entrapped in a material body and that the flesh suppressed the light of the soul. Thus while the soul could be made pure through knowledge (Gnosis) it was not necessary for the purity to be reflected in deeds. John is refuting this concept by teaching that the deeds MUST MATCH.
1Joh 1:5-7
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
The condition of being cleansed is to be WALKING IN THE LIGHT. Your walk is your deeds. Your walk is what you do. We have to be in submission to the lead of God before the blood will cleanse. Hence the need for repentance.
Verses 8-10 are in the context of "how to walk in the light." We cannot approach God without confessing our sin as that is the very issue which cuts us us from God. Hence we must confess our sins just like the Prodigal Son did in Luke 15, just like Nineveh did in Jonah 3. We confess our sins and then forsake our sins that we may walk in the light and THEN the blood cleanses us of all sin. If we say we have not sinned we lie and the truth is not in us.
John then continues with his teaching that DEEDS MUST MATCH the PROFESSION.
1Joh 2:1-6
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Notice in verse 1 it says "IF ANYONE SIN." Not WHEN but IF. If 1Joh 1:8-10 was teaching that the sin never stops then verse 1 would say WHEN. John uses IF because SIN IS THE EXCEPTION and NOT THE RULE.
Zone you teach that SIN IS THE RULE and NOT THE EXCEPTION. You are in opposition to what the Bible plainly states. Right there in verse 1 your error is shown.
How do you explain that scripture in light of what you believe? Can you see the inconsistency?
Notice in verses 3-6 that the WALK must match the PROFESSION. How do those verses compare to the reformed doctrine of the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ" ? They state the complete opposite.
Enow in the original post of this thread asserts that one can be IN CHRIST and yet be IN REBELLION at the SAME TIME. John in this passage completely demolishes that assertion.
I agree with John. I agree with Jesus. I agree with Paul.
I can only conclude that people disagree with me because they must not really believe what the Bible teaches. I tend to think they have an emotional attachment to some doctrines of men that when they are shown to be in conflict with the Scripture the doctrines of men are upheld and the Scripture is then misapplied to prove the false doctrine.
John was teaching that the outward conduct must match the profession. Thus one cannot be WALKING in darkness and be in fellowship with God. In fact one cannot be WALKING in darkness and be cleansed of all sin.
The doctrine of the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ" teaches that one can be cleansed and yet be WALKING in darkness. It is the same Gnostic heresy dressed up in new clothes. There truly is nothing new under the sun.
That is why Billy Graham can get up on stage and claim that he is wicked, that he has never been righteous all his life, and yet he is clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Billy Graham believes in a doctrine where MANIFEST DEEDS have been disconnected from the STATE OF THE HEART.
The Gnostics taught that "matter" trapped "light" and thus the human soul was entrapped in a material body and that the flesh suppressed the light of the soul. Thus while the soul could be made pure through knowledge (Gnosis) it was not necessary for the purity to be reflected in deeds. John is refuting this concept by teaching that the deeds MUST MATCH.
1Joh 1:5-7
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
The condition of being cleansed is to be WALKING IN THE LIGHT. Your walk is your deeds. Your walk is what you do. We have to be in submission to the lead of God before the blood will cleanse. Hence the need for repentance.
Verses 8-10 are in the context of "how to walk in the light." We cannot approach God without confessing our sin as that is the very issue which cuts us us from God. Hence we must confess our sins just like the Prodigal Son did in Luke 15, just like Nineveh did in Jonah 3. We confess our sins and then forsake our sins that we may walk in the light and THEN the blood cleanses us of all sin. If we say we have not sinned we lie and the truth is not in us.
John then continues with his teaching that DEEDS MUST MATCH the PROFESSION.
1Joh 2:1-6
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Notice in verse 1 it says "IF ANYONE SIN." Not WHEN but IF. If 1Joh 1:8-10 was teaching that the sin never stops then verse 1 would say WHEN. John uses IF because SIN IS THE EXCEPTION and NOT THE RULE.
Zone you teach that SIN IS THE RULE and NOT THE EXCEPTION. You are in opposition to what the Bible plainly states. Right there in verse 1 your error is shown.
How do you explain that scripture in light of what you believe? Can you see the inconsistency?
Notice in verses 3-6 that the WALK must match the PROFESSION. How do those verses compare to the reformed doctrine of the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ" ? They state the complete opposite.
Enow in the original post of this thread asserts that one can be IN CHRIST and yet be IN REBELLION at the SAME TIME. John in this passage completely demolishes that assertion.
I agree with John. I agree with Jesus. I agree with Paul.
I can only conclude that people disagree with me because they must not really believe what the Bible teaches. I tend to think they have an emotional attachment to some doctrines of men that when they are shown to be in conflict with the Scripture the doctrines of men are upheld and the Scripture is then misapplied to prove the false doctrine.