Is There a Way to Stop Seeing Singles as "The Enemy"? (Part 1.)

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

A few things both in the threads and in real life have me thinking about this, and I've tried to sort my thoughts into 3 separate threads. They might very well overlap each other, but I couldn't think of a way to try to mash them all into one thread, so let's see what happens.

Something I have noticed in my own single life is that single people often seem to be made out to be "something to look out for" as a possible threat. Here are some examples I've seen in my own life:

~ I've often seen male neighbors out it the yard working, but never their wives. I have often run into problems where people think I'm a snob because I didn't make an effort to go over and introduce myself. But I believe the Holy Spirit actually told me that if I can help it, to never be seen talking to a married man, even in public, unless there were plenty of other mixed company around, so that an angry wife couldn't accuse me of trying to talk to her husband. And so, since I never saw the women outside, I never tried to introduce myself, and the whole neighborhood just whispered that I was a snob who thought I was too good to talk to anyone.

~ When my single friends find someone, I know that in many cases, the friendship is now over. If it's a guy, their new girl sees a single female friend as a possible competitor who must be done away with (and I understand that, I honestly do.)

The same thing has happened with some female friends, but in a different way: they want you around because they need someone to tell all their "I'm so happy I have someone" stories, and they also want to show their man, "Look! I have friends! I'm popular and hanging with my girls!", but at the same time, they don't want you around TOO much... because (in their minds) you might try to steal their man.

~ Some of my family's lifelong friends have lost their spouses, and as soon as they find themselves alone, all their lifelong married friends abandon them because they have now become SINGLE, and could possible steal away, or be competition for those who still have a spouse.

~ Single women over a certain age are assumed to be impossibly spoiled Disney princesses; single men over a certain age are assumed to gay, desperate stalkers, or socially dangerous.


* Has anyone else observed this as well? Please don't get me wrong. I understand why married people would want to cut off or limit friendships with single people.

* But is there any other way to treat, or relate to singles in a way that doesn't scream, "

 

[seoulsearch]

Sorry everyone, I accidentally hit the Post button without finishing, and wasn't done in time for an edit to apply.

The last statement should read:

* But is there any other way to treat, or relate to singles in a way that doesn't scream, "SINGLES ARE DANGEROUS PREDATORS THAT MUST BE KEPT IN THEIR PLACE AT ALL TIMES!!!"

* Has anyone else noticed this, or felt this way? (Or is it just me...)

* And, if so... Can anything be done about it?

Most of us singles are just trying to live out God's will in our lives. How can we be seen as normal people who have our own God-given callings that might put our presence in a more positive light?

I'm certainly not suggesting that singles should rush out and make friends with or hang out with opposite gender friends who are married or taken.

But at the same time, is there ANY way to help singles be seen in a more positive light?

 

[Didymous]

I've been to many churches, and seen many with people acting as you wrote, but I only go to the ones now where everyone-especially single folks are welcomed and made to feel very much at home. I guess if I was in a church where folks acted like that, id probably talk to the pastor about teaching all to show love for single brothers and sisters-rather than judgment. Now I'm thinking about that Casting Crowns song.

 

[tourist]

I would say that I agree with you in that, say for example, a single woman talking to a married man, even to just say hello, could possibly be perceived as a threat by the man's wife. I suppose that it is a matter of trust, without which, there can be no foundation for a relationship.

 

[Didymous]

I've been to many churches, and seen many with people acting as you wrote, but I only go to the ones now where everyone-especially single folks are welcomed and made to feel very much at home. I guess if I was in a church where folks acted like that, id probably talk to the pastor about teaching all to show love for single brothers and sisters-rather than judgment. Now I'm thinking about that Casting Crowns song.

'Does anybody hear her?' is the song.

 

[LadyInWaiting]

Sorry everyone, I accidentally hit the Post button without finishing, and wasn't done in time for an edit to apply.

The last statement should read:

* But is there any other way to treat, or relate to singles in a way that doesn't scream, "SINGLES ARE DANGEROUS PREDATORS THAT MUST BE KEPT IN THEIR PLACE AT ALL TIMES!!!"

* Has anyone else noticed this, or felt this way? (Or is it just me...)

* And, if so... Can anything be done about it?

Most of us singles are just trying to live out God's will in our lives. How can we be seen as normal people who have our own God-given callings that might put our presence in a more positive light?

I'm certainly not suggesting that singles should rush out and make friends with or hang out with opposite gender friends who are married or taken.

But at the same time, is there ANY way to help singles be seen in a more positive light?

With all due respect, Sister...I actually think the bolded part is not true. I don't think most Christian singles are like that at all. I think if given the opportunity or temptation, most singles would/might think about being with a married person. Being single is difficult and it's more so for other people who are used to being in relationships. When an attractive person you know and love as a friend tells you that their "marriage is over," you might take the bait and fall for it.

I usually attend smaller churches that focus on bringing in new sheep. This is great, don't get me wrong, but because of their focus, the sheep are usually not spiritually mature. I have seen many couples get divorced or cheat or have side families because they are young spiritually. So even though they are Christians, they don't necessarily have the wisdom and discernment to stop something before it happens. Everyone is tempted and we all make mistakes.

I think this is kind of like when Christians stay away from bars or clubs. Being at a bar or club is not bad in and of itself and neither is drinking...but the atmosphere can cause a believer to stumble very easily in a number of ways. I think when married people choose not to have friends with those of the opposite sex it's for the very same reason.

Also, imagine being married and your neighbor is very very attractive. He also has extra time during the week while you are home and both of your spouses are at work. Wouldn't you want to put up a boundary in that friendship? I'm not saying to ignore the guy if he says hello...but maybe just hold off longer conversations until your husband is around.

I think affairs start way before the sex actually happens. Keeping boundaries is a way of preventing the affair from developing.

I do see what you are saying. I've been to some churches or around certain people that did not want my company because I am single. It's a sad situation all around and I don't know the answer. I guess what we could do is try to being mostly friendly with the women only? I hardly talk to the married men at my congregation because of all this. However, I feel totally okay with that. LOL

 

[seoulsearch]

With all due respect, Sister...I actually think the bolded part is not true. I don't think most Christian singles are like that at all. I think if given the opportunity or temptation, most singles would/might think about being with a married person. Being single is difficult and it's more so for other people who are used to being in relationships. When an attractive person you know and love as a friend tells you that their "marriage is over," you might take the bait and fall for it.

I usually attend smaller churches that focus on bringing in new sheep. This is great, don't get me wrong, but because of their focus, the sheep are usually not spiritually mature. I have seen many couples get divorced or cheat or have side families because they are young spiritually. So even though they are Christians, they don't necessarily have the wisdom and discernment to stop something before it happens. Everyone is tempted and we all make mistakes.

I think this is kind of like when Christians stay away from bars or clubs. Being at a bar or club is not bad in and of itself and neither is drinking...but the atmosphere can cause a believer to stumble very easily in a number of ways. I think when married people choose not to have friends with those of the opposite sex it's for the very same reason.

Also, imagine being married and your neighbor is very very attractive. He also has extra time during the week while you are home and both of your spouses are at work. Wouldn't you want to put up a boundary in that friendship? I'm not saying to ignore the guy if he says hello...but maybe just hold off longer conversations until your husband is around.

I think affairs start way before the sex actually happens. Keeping boundaries is a way of preventing the affair from developing.

I do see what you are saying. I've been to some churches or around certain people that did not want my company because I am single. It's a sad situation all around and I don't know the answer. I guess what we could do is try to being mostly friendly with the women only? I hardly talk to the married men at my congregation because of all this. However, I feel totally okay with that. LOL

Hey Lady,

You've made some great points and have also given me the opportunity to clarify -- the bolded statement in the original post was meant as a parody/satire (and certainly NOT a truth) of how singles (to me) often seem to be portrayed or made to feel.

I did NOT mean it as an absolute or fact AT ALL, and apologize that I might have written it in a way that could easily be misinterpreted as a catch-all statement. That was not my intent at all.

And of course, I completely agree with you that affairs often start with the heart (not actual physical cheating, at first, or at all, as I personally consider an emotional affair to still be an affair.)

I also completely agree that of course, it's not just single people who might be seen as (or become) competition (the girl who took my husband had a fiance); this thread was meant just to illustrate the perspective of a single person who is seen as a possible threat.

I did not mean to downplay or ignore the fact that any taken person could be seen the same way and am sorry that I neglected to post this in the introduction.

 

[LadyInWaiting]

Hey Lady,

You've made some great points and have also given me the opportunity to clarify -- the bolded statement in the original post was meant as a parody/satire (and certainly NOT a truth) of how singles (to me) often seem to be portrayed or made to feel.

I did NOT mean it as an absolute or fact AT ALL, and apologize that I might have written it in a way that could easily be misinterpreted as a catch-all statement. That was not my intent at all.

And of course, I completely agree with you that affairs often start with the heart (not actual physical cheating, at first, or at all, as I personally consider an emotional affair to still be an affair.)

I also completely agree that of course, it's not just single people who might be seen as (or become) competition (the girl who took my husband had a fiance); this thread was meant just to illustrate the perspective of a single person who is seen as a possible threat.

I did not mean to downplay or ignore the fact that any taken person could be seen the same way and am sorry that I neglected to post this in the introduction.

Ah okay...my apologies, girly! I think I didn't really understand what you were asking but now that I saw Part 2 I get it a little more.

It's hard...because if I were married, I don't think I would want my husband spending a lot of time with another woman who wasn't his family. I mean unless it's part of his job or ministry or something...then I would be more understanding.
I'm going to admit to something really embarrassing...but for me, whenever I have a male friend around my age or a bit older, I tend to get feelings for them quite easily. So it's very hard...if I were married I know that for myself, I would not be able to have very many guy friends if any at all. That's just the hard truth in my case. But I do see that everyone is different.

This could also be because of my social anxiety. I don't have many friends. So those that I do, I tend to get very close to. If it's a boy, the feelings just get the better of me.

 

[cinder]

I would agree with the idea that singles seem to be generally excluded from the personal social circles of couples and families, but I haven't seen enough evidence to be convinced that this is generally due to a mindest of seeing someone's single status as threatening. Here are some other factors that I think might be why friendship between singles and marrieds is more difficult than people just sticking to people with similar relational status:

Third wheel syndrome - When two couples get together, the wives talk to each other and the husbands can talk to each other, but when just one single person is there to make conversation with, someone will almost inevitably feel left out (unless you've got a common interest or activity between the three of you to talk about). So as a single you'll probably not hang out with the couple and just end up hanging out with the friend of the same gender when you can both make time in your schedules.

Lack of shared experiences to bond over - Every week at Bible study I experience this because my bible study is 3 couples with babies / toddlers, the youth pastor and his wife who have preteens, 2 childless couples, and me. Inevitably the parents always talk about their kids and how potty training has progressed this week and how the babies are sleeping and if they're sick, etc. This is great for everyone else, but usually leaves me feeling left out. Conversely I think couples (especially couples with children) may avoid hanging out with singles because they just don't know what to talk about and that's uncomfortable.

Limited time- especially when starting up a new relationship, there's a huge new investment of one on one time with the significant other, this sort of by default makes single friends less signifcant others and since everyone has a limited amount of time, the time invested in the new relationship is often pulled from time that was spent with friends, and the friends who are assumed to be able to relate less and less as the relationship progresses are the single friends who aren't in a relationship.

So those are some of the alternate theories I would propose, maybe we can add to the debate whether it is a worse situation for singles to be socially ignored because they're difficult to relate to or seen and socially avoided because of misplaced worries that being single must be due to some character defect that makes us dangerous.

 

[Hamarr]

Most of my experience with this sort of thing was from when I was a bit younger. I stopped going to church regularly in my late 20s, and am just going to start attending regularly again now.

I was thinking during my college years at least, a lot of my friends were women in relationships. There seemed to be less tension there, or I perceived less, than with single women I knew. I'm not sure about nowadays. I tend to assume people might see me as a threat now so I am less likely to talk to women in relationships now unless they initiate. But that is more of concern about coming off as threatening rather than attractiveness.

I wonder how much of the romantic threat you mention might be differences between men and women? I think it was Chris Rock who had a bit about when guys see a woman one of their friends is dating or married to and really likes her, they think "I need to find someone like that", whereas women think "I need him!". I have known some women who lost friendships over their friends constantly flirting with their boyfriends/husbands. I'm not sure if I have known of a reverse. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, of course.

I think nowadays I am more likely to say away from hanging out with married couples for the reasons Cinder mentioned. I am almost always the third or fifth wheel if I go to dinner or whatever. Conversations can fall back to their experiences as a couple or whatever. Even with single people, this can happen if they have kids.

 

[Susanna]

Some ladies would like to have me shipped off to wherever if I’m talking to their husbands. I think some married people are afraid of singles. I think it’s a little fun lol.

 

[Didymous]

Some ladies would like to have me shipped off to wherever if I’m talking to their husbands. I think some married people are afraid of singles. I think it’s a little fun lol.

You bad girl!

 

[Lynx]

*Lynx wakes up, looks around in confusion and finds himself in an unfamiliar... yet strangely familiar... forest of new seoulsearching posts.

Well NOW I know why she hasn't been in chat all night.

About the social stigma against single people: As with so many other problems, there is no way to fix the problem for everybody. One can only understand the problem and adapt one's own actions. In this case we singles, being on the receiving end of the problem, can mostly only be understanding of why people treat us in such a manner and move on.

I would comment about one aspect specifically, married people getting upset when their spouses talk to any single person... that indicates a serious lack of trust in the relationship. Either the upset person thinks the spouse is still actively comparing partners and might switch at a moment's notice, or the upset person believes the spouse does not know where to draw lines.

'Does anybody hear her?' is the song.

I thought you were referencing "Stained Glass Masquerade."

 

[Adstar]

The phenomenon of married people shunning singles because they are perceived as possible competition and thus a threat by one of the couple is very real and common.. I think this fear of the single woman or single man runs deep in a married persons brain.. Lets face it a lot of people lack self confidence and so they fear losing their wife or husband to an orbiting single.. That's just the way it is sadly.. I have lost a few friends that way..

I think society in general wants singles to hang around with singles.. But of course that gets harder and harder as one grows older and the number of single people of your age declines.. In the western society more and more people are single but it seems that most of the single people are either introverts or have been burnt in disastrous marriages where they have been destroyed in a divorce ( well that divorce destruction is predominantly a male experience )

The positive for single men is a larger percentage of them can handle being single psychologically car better then most woman.. A lot of woman suffer from depression and anxiety when they are single and entering into middle / old age.. Of course there are exceptions to any generalizations.. Some woman are well able to handle living a single life and some men find being single a soul destroying experience..

As for me being male and more of an introvert then an extrovert and along with the fact that i Believe in God makes it a lot easier to live my life as a single man.. I am at peace.. The only thing that i feel i have missed out of is the joy of being a dad but that is only a momentary feeling sometimes when i see a happy young family when i am at a shopping center or restaurant.. I sometimes wonder what it would have been like to have a son or a daughter..

 

[Didymous]

*Lynx wakes up, looks around in confusion and finds himself in an unfamiliar... yet strangely familiar... forest of new seoulsearching posts.

Well NOW I know why she hasn't been in chat all night.

About the social stigma against single people: As with so many other problems, there is no way to fix the problem for everybody. One can only understand the problem and adapt one's own actions. In this case we singles, being on the receiving end of the problem, can mostly only be understanding of why people treat us in such a manner and move on.

I would comment about one aspect specifically, married people getting upset when their spouses talk to any single person... that indicates a serious lack of trust in the relationship. Either the upset person thinks the spouse is still actively comparing partners and might switch at a moment's notice, or the upset person believes the spouse does not know where to draw lines.


I thought you were referencing "Stained Glass Masquerade."

Oh yeah! That one too!

 

[ChandlerFan]

I think as general rules regarding this topic, there are boundaries people must maintain whether they are single or married, and past that we can only worry about controlling what we can control.

As far as being single goes, I don't think it's wise to have a friendship with a married person of the opposite sex unless your are also friends with their spouse. They are one flesh after all--if you are friends with one, you are friends with the other. For this reason I don't text/private message with a married woman unless it's necessary and strictly business. It doesn't have to be about anyone being a threat so much as just being above board. The flip side to this would be that no married person should be friends with someone of the opposite sex (married or not) that is not also friends with his/her spouse, and one-on-one communication should be kept to a minimum.

With those boundaries in place, I don't think we should allow ourselves to be guided by what other people might think. The example was given of not talking to a married person out working in the yard because of fears about what that person's spouse might think, but in my mind, if their spouse gets mad about that, then that is on them. Interestingly, the people who are most paranoid about their spouses cheating are those who have cheated themselves. If someone is so insecure in their marriage that they don't trust their spouse talking to someone in as public a place as the front yard, then that is an issue they need to work through with their spouse. And instead of getting mad, it would be just as easy to go out and meet the person their spouse is talking to and gauge conversationally whether or not the person has good intentions. If I were the single person in that scenario, I would be totally fine with that.
And on the flip side, if there is no interest in going and talking to the person working in the yard, that is my choice. If people want to think it's because I'm a snob, then clearly they don't know me and their opinion really doesn't carry much weight. I can only control what I can control, and that is my own decisions and actions. What anyone else thinks about them is not something I can control, and so it doesn't have to be any of my concern.

In general, I think if a married person views single people as competition for them, there are some issues there that need to be worked out, whether it is internally or in the marriage. It seems like a lot of the examples given are centered around situations where there are a lot of things unspoken, so there are a lot of assumptions being made about other people's intentions. The only way to work past this is to pursue real relationships with people so that assumptions aren't required, and for those in our lives who aren't interested in real relationships, we can move along from them. But in my experience of healthy community, mostly in a church setting, when people know each other well and are doing life with one another, it expels so much of the distrust and unspoken, passive aggressive conflict that is described in the examples given.

 

[Princesse]

I haven’t encountered this and wasn’t reared in communities like the one described. I never had a hankering to hang out with married women or couples. That’s not my thing.

I suspect this is less about bias than the necessity of knowing ones place and respecting boundaries. I’m not threatened by single women. If he desired her she’d be in my place. But she isn’t. Getting your druthers in a tizzy over someone else is a waste of time.

And so, since I never saw the women outside, I never tried to introduce myself, and the whole neighborhood just whispered that I was a snob who thought I was too good to talk to anyone.

I think a hello and wave would suffice.

When my single friends find someone, I know that in many cases, the friendship is now over. If it's a guy, their new girl sees a single female friend as a possible competitor who must be done away with (and I understand that, I honestly do.)

Why would a friend abandon a valuable connection because they’ve met someone? Women do this when the person is untrustworthy or they’re suspicious. I’d be more concerned about building shaky relationships with people who consider me expendable.

The same thing has happened with some female friends, but in a different way: they want you around because they need someone to tell all their "I'm so happy I have someone" stories, and they also want to show their man, "Look! I have friends! I'm popular and hanging with my girls!", but at the same time, they don't want you around TOO much... because (in their minds) you might try to steal their man.

I think it’s normal to share good news with close friends. Healthy ones share our cheer and offer the same in turn. What you’ve described isn’t friendship. It’s more akin to place-holding.

Some of my family's lifelong friends have lost their spouses, and as soon as they find themselves alone, all their lifelong married friends abandon them because they have now become SINGLE, and could possible steal away, or be competition for those who still have a spouse.

I’m happy I’ve never encountered this.

Single women over a certain age are assumed to be impossibly spoiled Disney princesses; single men over a certain age are assumed to gay, desperate stalkers, or socially dangerous.

This is really bizarre. I’ve been in secular circles my adult life and this exceeds the suppositions I’ve heard on that side of the market.

Has anyone else observed this as well? Please don't get me wrong. I understand why married people would want to cut off or limit friendships with single people.

No. I’d have a hard time putting up with this. I have little patience with drama or histrionics.

But is there any other way to treat, or relate to singles in a way that doesn't scream, "SINGLES ARE DANGEROUS PREDATORS THAT MUST BE KEPT IN THEIR PLACE AT ALL TIMES!!!"

I have mentored and befriended single women and others in relationships. My disposition is kind and forthright. I’m not chummy or interested in getting acquainted with their partners. My connection and alliance are with her. I’m polite and cordial when interacting with their companion. Until greater familiarity and character are observed and revealed.

Women do themselves a disservice by making it a habit to be in a man’s company they’re not connected to. Whether you’re pals or BFF’s, you’ll be at the bottom of the heap unless there’s mutual interest.

But at the same time, is there ANY way to help singles be seen in a more positive light?

I think it’s important to understand how your behavior is viewed by others. Some people enjoy the company of the opposite sex and their attention. Others are touchy feely and always sharing problems or challenges with men.

I would question what I’m emitting that led others to the conclusions shared. I’ve known women who were feral or came to life when a man entered the room. If the pushback is female, it references something they detect in the person’s character. The same holds true for men.

This is one of reasons I limit my attention to men I’m engaging with. I provide no fodder for gossip or suspicion. Or suggestions that I’m into them either. If I like him; he’s a prospect. Otherwise he’s an acquaintance.

I’ve never had a friend or relative question my loyalty or trustworthiness with their spouse or significant other. I know my place and it isn’t in his face, on his phone, sending texts or email, or crying on his shoulder. There is nothing I can say to a man I couldn’t reveal to a woman. So why bother.

If I behave frantically about my singleness and fall into a depression or bemoan my loneliness. Some will wonder if my needs will override my principles should an opportunity appear. A temperate approach with defined boundaries would alleviate the problem.

 

[MegMarch]

With all due respect, Sister...I actually think the bolded part is not true. I don't think most Christian singles are like that at all. I think if given the opportunity or temptation, most singles would/might think about being with a married person. Being single is difficult and it's more so for other people who are used to being in relationships. When an attractive person you know and love as a friend tells you that their "marriage is over," you might take the bait and fall for

As a single woman, I do not desire to be with any of the married men I encounter nor many of the single men for that matter.

I desire to see marriages thrive and fidelity upheld and honored. It brings me joy to see this between married couples, and I only want to encourage that.

 

[Lanolin]

I čant add that much to this topic cos it really sounds complicated.

My thoughts are you seem a bit paranoid OP.

I dont have problems talking to married men after all they are human beings too. Or single men. Not that I say much. Just talk about the weather or whatever it is they wanna chat about. I dont go in too deep.. or I just smile and wave. I have mowed lawns and you cant talk anyway while mowing lawns.

I gardened for several retirement villages and it Never occured to me that by merely talking to someone I was making their wife jealous?! I was doing their garden so its not likely I want to chat about their wives, but will talk about plants.

I just ignore any obvious creepy behaviour and its fine.

I wonder if I will reach the spoiled princess status when I get older.....If thats what people think of me then I suppose thats their problem...but Im as real as anybody, I never bought into the whole princess fairy tale thing.

If anything I would rather be seen as a angel neither married nor given to marriage. But as we know people entertain angels unawares...I just dont tell them I am one.

 

[enginseer]

Some ladies would like to have me shipped off to wherever if I’m talking to their husbands. I think some married people are afraid of singles. I think it’s a little fun lol.

well, doesnt it underline how insecure they are about what blessings they have ? But why look for trouble if it finds you anyway ? If they do ship you, have them ship you in my direction for dinner