T
tdrew777
Guest
That is why the matter must be brought before the entire church - when the information is out there, there is no room for rumors.
Kick Them Out!
- Thread starter KohenMatt
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L
LT
Guest
yes, in everything, love and compassion must be the focus. The only problem is when someone who professes to be made well shows that they are still sick, and contagious. Rebuke is usually enough, but if someone is unwilling to repent, or the issue has gone unresolved, the Bible tells us to separate them from the fold, temporarily. This is out of love for those that they might lead astray.
It is clear that God wants us to be perfect “Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” But what did Jesus say while He was in the flesh when someone called Him good, which some may argue falls short of “perfect”? “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.” Now why would any of His followers who are born of God go around calling themselves “perfect” if the Lord did not go around calling Himself “good”? Is perfect less than good?
What the Lord meant by being “perfect” like our Father means we strive to emulate His perfection. But while the children who are born of God are in this flesh there will always be things that they say or do that are not perfect. It does not mean those things are sins, especially those sins that lead to death, but the children born of God will never walk around saying they are perfect or thinking they are perfect because they know better. Even the best, Christ Himself, knew better than to go around calling Himself perfect.
What are you going to do IF that time comes when you become a “PERFECT MAN RIGHT ON THE SPOT”? Are you going to tell people what it feels like to be perfect? Are you going say everything perfect, do everything perfect? When people come to you and say, “Perfect Cobus, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” Are you going to proceed to tell them the things they must do or are you going to say the same as our Lord said by saying,“Why do you call Me perfect? No one is perfect but One, that is, God.” And if you say that will you then feel that you are lying because you believed that in one day you were made a “PERFECT MAN RIGHT ON THE SPOT”?
Rock I see NO person that boasted about His salvation, but with thanks and humbleness, AS THE GOLY SPIRIT IN JESUS showed us, was ALL GLORY TO FATHER.... ALL Glory to Father.
If Cobus has ANYTHING t oboast about, I will say.... Praise the Holy Father, He even had love for a stinking wretch like me. WOW! A Holy God in a PERFECT heaven, thinking and wanting to save this filthy sinner Cobus. A God so full of PURE LOVE, that he wants to bless this filthy world by saving one of them, and make this filty sinner a person to live the LOVE OF GOD out on this World.
God took one of the darkest people in this world, Cobus Myburgh, and turned him into a Godly lightbearer for other dark people. I did NOT choose God or made Jesus my saviour.... God chose me and HE made Jesus my saviour. For me to sit here and say, He cannot save me COMPLETELY, is to deny my Holy Father, HIS POWERFUL SALVATION.
How can I say I am saved, yet sinner? Oh I will make my Holy God a lier. He said the finished product is a REPLICA of His Son Jesus in the flesh. I believe Him. And the GOOD in me is GOD IN ME! And the HOLY IN ME is GOD IN ME, and the perfection in me is GOD in me. I am GONE. Cobus the stony heart filthe man is GONE... God placed HIS HEART OF FLESH in the place of the stony heart of Cobus.... And the once FILTHY SPIRIT of Cobus is washed in the blood to absolute PURITY OF GOD, and REMOVED from this flesh to make way for HIS HOLY SPIRIT.....
The old Cobus, sinning heart, stony heart, is BURNT to NOTHING. To NEVER live of even exist again.... It is GONE....
And the NEW heart, God's heart of flesh, that has NO STONE in it, is now in me, and the fouled up spirit of Cobus is washed to absolute PURENESS and taken into God to REMAIN there in god until that day when it gets a NEW BODY, and God puts HIS SPIRIT in this flesh to give is a NEW LIFE WITH A NEW HEART AND SPIRIT, TO DO HIS JUDGEMENTS AND STATUTES.
This flesh is occupied by God's SOUL/HEART and God's HOLY SPIRIT, and it can only do what the Spirit tells the soul to do... God's Spirit telling God's soul what to do with the flesh HE OCCUPIES....
So where is the glory of Cobus? BURNT IN THE FIRE BAPTISM TO NOTHING.... The only glory the old Cobus had was SIN AND FILTHY RAGS.... The NEW Cobus? Well he is hidden in God and waithing for HIS GLORIOUS TERESTIAL BODY ON THE DAY WE COME WITH OUR LORD. And the New Person in this flesh.... Christ Jesus.... I IN THEM FATHER....And Chrsit will ALWAYS give all the Glory to the father.
The only perfect people on earth, is CHRSIT JESUS IN THEM.... And they are NOT IN THEIR FLESH NO MORE...They are HID IN GOD. there stony hearts that sinned is GONE, Their souls are already with GOD.... and their once dirty spirit and souls are WASHED PURE by the blood, but then taken to GOD! Like Paul says.... the life these people live thay live IN CHRIST, and Jesus in them....
Look how God made 5000 men PERFECTLY one with HIM and themselves on the SPOT.... Look how they all had ONE SOUL (God's PURE SOUL) and one SPIRIT (God's Holy Spirit) PERFECT MEN, 5000 of them in a split second... On the Spot... I think God does it one by one today, but He can do as many as HE likes, I cannot limit God what to do.
Acts 4... they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, ... and the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul:
Here God did EXACTLY what He said He will do in Ezekiel 36:26 and 27.... And He still does this today, God does not change and His Salvation to perfection also does not change.
If Cobus has ANYTHING t oboast about, I will say.... Praise the Holy Father, He even had love for a stinking wretch like me. WOW! A Holy God in a PERFECT heaven, thinking and wanting to save this filthy sinner Cobus. A God so full of PURE LOVE, that he wants to bless this filthy world by saving one of them, and make this filty sinner a person to live the LOVE OF GOD out on this World.
God took one of the darkest people in this world, Cobus Myburgh, and turned him into a Godly lightbearer for other dark people. I did NOT choose God or made Jesus my saviour.... God chose me and HE made Jesus my saviour. For me to sit here and say, He cannot save me COMPLETELY, is to deny my Holy Father, HIS POWERFUL SALVATION.
How can I say I am saved, yet sinner? Oh I will make my Holy God a lier. He said the finished product is a REPLICA of His Son Jesus in the flesh. I believe Him. And the GOOD in me is GOD IN ME! And the HOLY IN ME is GOD IN ME, and the perfection in me is GOD in me. I am GONE. Cobus the stony heart filthe man is GONE... God placed HIS HEART OF FLESH in the place of the stony heart of Cobus.... And the once FILTHY SPIRIT of Cobus is washed in the blood to absolute PURITY OF GOD, and REMOVED from this flesh to make way for HIS HOLY SPIRIT.....
The old Cobus, sinning heart, stony heart, is BURNT to NOTHING. To NEVER live of even exist again.... It is GONE....
And the NEW heart, God's heart of flesh, that has NO STONE in it, is now in me, and the fouled up spirit of Cobus is washed to absolute PURENESS and taken into God to REMAIN there in god until that day when it gets a NEW BODY, and God puts HIS SPIRIT in this flesh to give is a NEW LIFE WITH A NEW HEART AND SPIRIT, TO DO HIS JUDGEMENTS AND STATUTES.
This flesh is occupied by God's SOUL/HEART and God's HOLY SPIRIT, and it can only do what the Spirit tells the soul to do... God's Spirit telling God's soul what to do with the flesh HE OCCUPIES....
So where is the glory of Cobus? BURNT IN THE FIRE BAPTISM TO NOTHING.... The only glory the old Cobus had was SIN AND FILTHY RAGS.... The NEW Cobus? Well he is hidden in God and waithing for HIS GLORIOUS TERESTIAL BODY ON THE DAY WE COME WITH OUR LORD. And the New Person in this flesh.... Christ Jesus.... I IN THEM FATHER....And Chrsit will ALWAYS give all the Glory to the father.
The only perfect people on earth, is CHRSIT JESUS IN THEM.... And they are NOT IN THEIR FLESH NO MORE...They are HID IN GOD. there stony hearts that sinned is GONE, Their souls are already with GOD.... and their once dirty spirit and souls are WASHED PURE by the blood, but then taken to GOD! Like Paul says.... the life these people live thay live IN CHRIST, and Jesus in them....
Look how God made 5000 men PERFECTLY one with HIM and themselves on the SPOT.... Look how they all had ONE SOUL (God's PURE SOUL) and one SPIRIT (God's Holy Spirit) PERFECT MEN, 5000 of them in a split second... On the Spot... I think God does it one by one today, but He can do as many as HE likes, I cannot limit God what to do.
Acts 4... they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, ... and the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul:
Here God did EXACTLY what He said He will do in Ezekiel 36:26 and 27.... And He still does this today, God does not change and His Salvation to perfection also does not change.
Rockbysea, when Jesus talked to the rich man Jesus said to him.... Oh, So you want to be perfect... then go and sell all your stuff give to the poor and COME AND FOLLOW ME....
If that rich man did do this, if he would have believed Jesus and sold all his stuff give to the poor and came back and followed Jesus, would he turned out perfect? I say YES PERFECT AS JESUS WAS PERFECT HERE ON EARTH.... That is how I believe Jesus.
If Jesus says, that if I believe in Him, I shall be made PERFECTLY ONE with Him and Father and all the other believers right here on this present world, then I believe HIM!
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
I believe God will help me to live righteously and Godly in this present world....
If that rich man did do this, if he would have believed Jesus and sold all his stuff give to the poor and came back and followed Jesus, would he turned out perfect? I say YES PERFECT AS JESUS WAS PERFECT HERE ON EARTH.... That is how I believe Jesus.
If Jesus says, that if I believe in Him, I shall be made PERFECTLY ONE with Him and Father and all the other believers right here on this present world, then I believe HIM!
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
I believe God will help me to live righteously and Godly in this present world....
"However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand."
They heard the word, the preaching of the apostles, and they believed. There’s nothing there in the scriptures that says those 5,000 “who heard the word and believed” became instantly perfect. I’ve never seen any teaching in the bible that says a man or thousands of men at the same time become instantly perfect. And not being perfect doesn’t mean you are sinning… sinning is lawlessness. One can have the Holy Spirit and obey God (not sin) without being perfect.
Look at the apostles. All of them had the Holy Spirit and yet they had contentions and weaknesses and many like Paul admitted that he had weakness… he never preached instant perfection. But he did preach the quick cessation of lawlessness (sin). They were all still learning and growing towards perfection. Paul took note of how Peter avoided being around the gentiles when the Jews were present. Paul and Barnabas, both men filled with the Holy Spirit, had contention between them that “became so sharp that they parted from one another.” But was that contention between them sin? No! Was it perfection? No! Here you have Godly men not coming to agreement…. having the same Spirit but not being perfectly united.... they were imperfect. They were still growing in grace and knowledge, which is why they were equipped to teach others how to grow in grace and knowledge after believing, repenting, and receiving the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit in them yes that Is Perfect.
But I do agree that we must stop sinning as Christ said, “Go and sin no more.” Now if one feels they have to wait until they become perfect before they can stop sinning because they equate the cessation of sin with perfection then they will never stop sinning because they will always consider the tiniest of imperfections to be equivalent to mortal sin.
God looks on the heart. That's where it all begins. A heart that finally gives up it's stubborn way, a heart that finally gives up on the world and lets it all go. It’s all about that beautiful free feeling of finally just letting it all go and freefalling backwards and landing on a solid Rock.
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Dalisa
Guest
This man could be having mental problems. Knowing Gods Word its clear that its not Gods voice he is hearing.
Someone who has mental problems often isnt able to repent, just because they are not aware that they are having mental problems. They dont see it, and thats the case of mental problems like psycoses etc. Sometimes those people can just act normal but have strange ideas.
God is good all of the time. He is just and fair. He allows all who will come to the Lord to have time to repent of their transgressions.
We are sanctified by His Blood, not by you or anyone becoming sinless or perfect.
Hebrew 13:12,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate.
God sees that we have Jesus, in spite of our messed up lives, and God sees us as if we are perfect because of the Son, His blood!
But I know I'm wasting my time trying to correct you Cobus. If you went into my local church congregation and started to preach your sinless perfection doctrine (which is from the devil himself), I'd have no qualms of kicking you out (especially if you don't heed correction and repent).
Bookie and I will gladly take the kick out... look here.... I fear not what MAN shall do unto me...
So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
And look here Bookie... For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
They hated me without a cause.
Bookie and I said/commanded this, not Jesus...Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
I am sorry I preach and believe what Jesus preached... but I cannot go back to the false teachings and doctrines...
So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
And look here Bookie... For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
They hated me without a cause.
Bookie and I said/commanded this, not Jesus...Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
I am sorry I preach and believe what Jesus preached... but I cannot go back to the false teachings and doctrines...
Well the leadership must be holy that the rest may comform as the holy spirit purifies the lord is good all the time
C
CRC
Guest
EXCOMMUNICATION—the very idea stirs up mixed feelings among many religious people. Most people agree that religions need some sort of discipline. But many view excommunication as a relic from the past—a harsh style of discipline that reminds them of witch-hunts and inquisitions.
Adding to the problem is the pervasive influence of the secular world. Thus, most of Christendom’s religions have adopted a more tolerant view of sin. Granted, it is not an easy action to take, but it is a loving arrangement. How so?
It Upholds God’s Name
Yahweh is a holy God. He does not tolerate deliberate sin on the part of those claiming to worship him. The apostle Peter wrote to Christians: “Become holy yourselves in all your conduct, because it is written: ‘You must be holy, because I am holy.’” (1 Peter 1:15, 16) So disfellowshipping unrepentant sinners upholds God’s holy name; it shows love for that name.—Compare Hebrews 6:10.
Does this mean that if a Christian succumbs to weakness or stumbles into grave sin, he is automatically expelled from the congregation? By no means! Yahweh is not a coldhearted dictator. He is merciful and understanding. He remembers that we are imperfect. (Psalm 103:14) Yahweh recognizes that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23) God has arranged for spiritual help within the congregation so that if a Christian takes a “false step” or even commits a serious sin, he may be lovingly ‘readjusted’ in a spirit of mildness. (Galatians 6:1) By accepting counsel from God’s Word and demonstrating heartfelt sorrow and genuine repentance, one who has strayed from the path of righteousness can “get healed” spiritually.—James 5:13-16.
Adding to the problem is the pervasive influence of the secular world. Thus, most of Christendom’s religions have adopted a more tolerant view of sin. Granted, it is not an easy action to take, but it is a loving arrangement. How so?
It Upholds God’s Name
Yahweh is a holy God. He does not tolerate deliberate sin on the part of those claiming to worship him. The apostle Peter wrote to Christians: “Become holy yourselves in all your conduct, because it is written: ‘You must be holy, because I am holy.’” (1 Peter 1:15, 16) So disfellowshipping unrepentant sinners upholds God’s holy name; it shows love for that name.—Compare Hebrews 6:10.
Does this mean that if a Christian succumbs to weakness or stumbles into grave sin, he is automatically expelled from the congregation? By no means! Yahweh is not a coldhearted dictator. He is merciful and understanding. He remembers that we are imperfect. (Psalm 103:14) Yahweh recognizes that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23) God has arranged for spiritual help within the congregation so that if a Christian takes a “false step” or even commits a serious sin, he may be lovingly ‘readjusted’ in a spirit of mildness. (Galatians 6:1) By accepting counsel from God’s Word and demonstrating heartfelt sorrow and genuine repentance, one who has strayed from the path of righteousness can “get healed” spiritually.—James 5:13-16.
Going back to my original example.....
The man was given 2 opportunities to repent. He didn't, and continued to insist He was right.
He was told to leave until he could recognize this. At that time, our leadership would meet with him to go through the right steps to be welcomed back in. In 2 years, he hasn't done any of this.
And by the way, the woman he told was to be his wife? She's stilled happily married, and 2 of her kids are on our youth worship team.
The man was given 2 opportunities to repent. He didn't, and continued to insist He was right.
He was told to leave until he could recognize this. At that time, our leadership would meet with him to go through the right steps to be welcomed back in. In 2 years, he hasn't done any of this.
And by the way, the woman he told was to be his wife? She's stilled happily married, and 2 of her kids are on our youth worship team.
D
Dalisa
Guest
I believe that too. But if he had a mental problem was it the right choice for the congregation to shut him out?
D
Dalisa
Guest
I dont agree. IF that man had mental problems, like a schizophrenia, psychotic disorders. It was wrong to kick him out. He needed help... He was not hearing God but voices... Looks like a psychiatric disorder
If the man had a mental problem, he was not in the assembly for the right reason. I have seen this occur time and time again in various denominations' congregations, people attending with an agenda other than to worship the Lord. I believe most people have observed this occurring in their own experience.
Sorry 2/3 of the way is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.... The man should have been rebuked in front of the church, you did not do that because....
Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
Do you not realize that God could have healed and washed that man right there in front of the whole church, encouraging more repentance... But we will NEVER know for you did not as God instructed.... KohenMatt, go ask God for forgiveness that you did not follow HIS instructions, and make sure you KNOW God's Scriptures, and the POWER God has if you do follow Scriptures...You did not allow God to do something by the lack of the third step you had to take... Who knows what god would have done? It does not matter now, for you slipped up becasue you made your own rules....
You will NEVER get results going 2/3 of God's way... has to be all the way or NOTHING.... 2/3 and 1/3 and 0/3, same result... God not there, God can't do HIS POWERFUL WORK... Sorry you are in error. The man HAD to appear before the church, and you did not do that part. So God could not do HIS part...
Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
Do you not realize that God could have healed and washed that man right there in front of the whole church, encouraging more repentance... But we will NEVER know for you did not as God instructed.... KohenMatt, go ask God for forgiveness that you did not follow HIS instructions, and make sure you KNOW God's Scriptures, and the POWER God has if you do follow Scriptures...You did not allow God to do something by the lack of the third step you had to take... Who knows what god would have done? It does not matter now, for you slipped up becasue you made your own rules....
You will NEVER get results going 2/3 of God's way... has to be all the way or NOTHING.... 2/3 and 1/3 and 0/3, same result... God not there, God can't do HIS POWERFUL WORK... Sorry you are in error. The man HAD to appear before the church, and you did not do that part. So God could not do HIS part...
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anyone familiar with forgiveness of sins through the laying of hands? i am familiar just seeing your imputs