Life Support

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JohnDB

JohnDB

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#1
Jan 16, 2021
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#1
With today's technology the doctors and nurses can keep people alive as never before. They can bring people back from the brink of death and get them alive and conscious.

At what point do you think the cutting off of the medical care should be?

Quality of life is part of the equation.
Cognitive function is another part. (Severe depression and dementia exists in many ambulatory patients)

So aside from breathing machines and heart pumping machines....what level of care?
Feeding tubes?
Catheters?
Colostomy?
IV?
Dialysis?
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

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#2
Nov 4, 2014
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Such a thought provoking question, so many variables to consider. If one doesn't fight to live, then is one choosing death, suicide? < just a question. God has given man intelligence to learn and grow, thus we have doctors. However, at what point are humans crossing the line. I don't know. I suppose a DNR, do not resuscitate, is an individual choice. Hmmm, great question.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#3
Jul 2, 2011
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When I hae been close to death, even believing my time had come, I would praise God, as always, and thnk Him for taking me from this place. I believe in my heart if anyone is beyone knowing whether he lives or not, and is on human machines of life support, he or she may as well be relieved of that tedium and allowed to leae that final choice to our Father. The person could snap out of it, or, sleep in peace awaiting the true resurrection. I may be totally wrong, so do not goby my thinking here. I would go for the dnr for myself,trusting God would revive me or resurrect me. God bless all...
 
tourist

tourist

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#4
Mar 13, 2014
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#4
JohnDB said:
With today's technology the doctors and nurses can keep people alive as never before. They can bring people back from the brink of death and get them alive and conscious.

At what point do you think the cutting off of the medical care should be?

Quality of life is part of the equation.
Cognitive function is another part. (Severe depression and dementia exists in many ambulatory patients)

So aside from breathing machines and heart pumping machines....what level of care?
Feeding tubes?
Catheters?
Colostomy?
IV?
Dialysis?
Click to expand...
None of the above for me.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#5
Jan 16, 2021
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#5
tourist said:
None of the above for me.
Click to expand...
What about your family and friends?

That's another nut to crack too. Many of them depend upon you for emotional support even if you don't believe it to be much. The importance of you to them can be enormous even when you trivialize it.
 
tourist

tourist

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#6
Mar 13, 2014
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#6
JohnDB said:
What about your family and friends?

That's another nut to crack too. Many of them depend upon you for emotional support even if you don't believe it to be much. The importance of you to them can be enormous even when you trivialize it.
Click to expand...
My wife feels the same way.
 
MsMediator

MsMediator

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#7
Mar 8, 2022
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Don't have any answers...

The sick person at a minimim provides emotional support and there will be a big hole once they are gone. Everyone goes at some point. If a person is at end stage of life there is probably only months maybe a couple of years left. Most hospitals are not equipped for patients to stay a long time as there are others...they want you to survive on your own. They have to meet certain metrics...like if they think you'll die within a week at home they support unplugging. It looks bad for the hospital if the patient goes off and dies.
 
Tall_Timbers

Tall_Timbers

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#8
Mar 31, 2023
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#8
JohnDB said:
Quality of life is part of the equation.
Click to expand...
As a member of the Body of Christ, I don't see quality of life as being in the equation. That aside, in some part, at least, it's an individual and personal decision. My End of Life instructions (living Will) stipulates that until a certain date, I'm to be kept alive at all costs, and after that date, my life is not to be maintained artificially, but I am to be given morphine and water until I pass away.

My reason for those instructions is while I'm alive the pension will keep coming and I picked a date in the future when I thought the family could do without it, as I don't want to be kept artificially alive but was taking the needs of my wife and children into consideration. That date is a couple of years out but I feel now that the wife and kids (all grown up) can take care of themselves well enough now, so I guess it's time to redo my living will which has been in effect for decades now.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#9
Jan 16, 2021
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#9
MsMediator said:
Don't have any answers...

The sick person at a minimim provides emotional support and there will be a big hole once they are gone. Everyone goes at some point. If a person is at end stage of life there is probably only months maybe a couple of years left. Most hospitals are not equipped for patients to stay a long time as there are others...they want you to survive on your own. They have to meet certain metrics...like if they think you'll die within a week at home they support unplugging. It looks bad for the hospital if the patient goes off and dies.
Click to expand...
Well there's palliative care....it's not hospice but a step above that....
Palliative care can call hospice and transition you into hospice if need be.

And it can be at a rehab center or your home. Just depends on your needs.

And when the question comes up....it's brutal and before you even realize it you are faced with the question of what to do.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

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#11
Jul 7, 2022
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#11
This IS an important topic.
Why I always hear this topic come up from medical families and we'll meaning folks that are persuaded by a news story or some such extreme example of a "brain dead" person being alive for 120 years or whatever, is anyone's guess.
Yes, I'm exaggerating.
I've been at the dinner tables of medical staff, family gatherings and holidays. I've also read a little bit about hospices, medical interventions, ethics, hospital ethics committees, mediation, etc.
I don't want to comment now, because I have things to do and will get emotionally involved in personal discussion.

I noticed on the forum that anything involving ethics will attract troll-like comments from surprisingly many. For instance, the worldly views will prevail by the majority. Anyone who has actually battled for saving lives and spent chunks of their lives in the Word for decisions will be drowned out by the sheer noise of protestors who quote the most vile people as if they are quoting the Bible.

My stance for the disabled and seniors is just as much pro-life as it is for a 5 year old in case anyone wonders where I stand.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#12
Jan 16, 2021
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#12
HealthAndHappiness said:
This IS an important topic.
Why I always hear this topic come up from medical families and we'll meaning folks that are persuaded by a news story or some such extreme example of a "brain dead" person being alive for 120 years or whatever, is anyone's guess.
Yes, I'm exaggerating.
I've been at the dinner tables of medical staff, family gatherings and holidays. I've also read a little bit about hospices, medical interventions, ethics, hospital ethics committees, mediation, etc.
I don't want to comment now, because I have things to do and will get emotionally involved in personal discussion.

I noticed on the forum that anything involving ethics will attract troll-like comments from surprisingly many. For instance, the worldly views will prevail by the majority. Anyone who has actually battled for saving lives and spent chunks of their lives in the Word for decisions will be drowned out by the sheer noise of protestors who quote the most vile people as if they are quoting the Bible.

My stance for the disabled and seniors is just as much pro-life as it is for a 5 year old in case anyone wonders where I stand.
Click to expand...
Of course we always want to err on the side of life...at least I do.

And I'm with you on that wholeheartedly.
I'm not talking about those "one in a million" cases either.
Sepsis in the elderly.
Dementia and cancer in elderly.
Barely cognitive patients....
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#13
Jan 18, 2011
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#13
JohnDB said:
Of course we always want to err on the side of life...at least I do.

And I'm with you on that wholeheartedly.
I'm not talking about those "one in a million" cases either.
Sepsis in the elderly.
Dementia and cancer in elderly.
Barely cognitive patients....
Click to expand...
many years ago, my grandfather was dying of cancer, and while in the hospital, he was shown to have fluid in his lungs.

i had another elderly family member have the same condition, and she would have her lungs cleared by suction.

made her feel much better.

so. i asked the nurse to do the same for my grandad.

she said o k, but came back and said since he had a " do not resuscitate " order, they could not do that.


so, while that would have no effect on his condition, just provided some comfort, it fell under that category.

so, if anyone has or wants to have one of those , be very inquisitive about the fine print..
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#14
Jan 16, 2021
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#14
gb9 said:
many years ago, my grandfather was dying of cancer, and while in the hospital, he was shown to have fluid in his lungs.

i had another elderly family member have the same condition, and she would have her lungs cleared by suction.

made her feel much better.

so. i asked the nurse to do the same for my grandad.

she said o k, but came back and said since he had a " do not resuscitate " order, they could not do that.


so, while that would have no effect on his condition, just provided some comfort, it fell under that category.

so, if anyone has or wants to have one of those , be very inquisitive about the fine print..
Click to expand...
Well there's a lot of difference between every case of terminal cancer. There's no definitive answers ever....no "clear" choice.
We make the best decisions we can with the information we have. None of which we feel good about...especially with a loved one. Which is how we usually discover what options are available or if the questions should be considered and asked.

Sometimes we sit there fretful and worrying and don't even look up key words and terms on the internet to find out what they are...waiting for someone to give us a clear choice and make it obvious what we should do.

Which is somewhat what I was looking for this thread to discuss. YMMV.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#15
#15
JohnDB said:
With today's technology the doctors and nurses can keep people alive as never before. They can bring people back from the brink of death and get them alive and conscious.

At what point do you think the cutting off of the medical care should be?

Quality of life is part of the equation.
Cognitive function is another part. (Severe depression and dementia exists in many ambulatory patients)

So aside from breathing machines and heart pumping machines....what level of care?
Feeding tubes?
Catheters?
Colostomy?
IV?
Dialysis?
Click to expand...
This poses a serious moral question that is very hard to answer.
How to decide when or if to use tech to support a life. As a christian life is a value, but where does medical science cross the line?
 
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