Loss of salvation???
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People will be people, and people will make mistakes, but when it comes to speaking about people we should really try to address issues with manners, calling people suckers is only asking for trouble,
We should not be like that when discussing the word of God.
It's not good to let people disapproval of your faith by others, to let it upset you, you really should just leave it in God's hands when discussions cause you to get cross.
We should not be like that when discussing the word of God.
It's not good to let people disapproval of your faith by others, to let it upset you, you really should just leave it in God's hands when discussions cause you to get cross.
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Whatever... I never said Systematic Theology says anything. You make that up yourself what who knows where...
Systematic Theology is simply a method, not a voice that says anything. It's simply the methodology whereby a topic us researched in order to see what ALL of scripture has to say on a subject, including its satellite topics that surround its proximity in subject matter for a more holistic understanding to broaden the scope of meaning...in a nutshell. For details you can read Wayne Grudem's book on the subject. I doesn't agree with everything he covers, but his material is enlightening.
Hope you find people who agree with you on everything so that you get along with them without the fanfare of sensationalizing on things they never said nor implied...
MM
Systematic Theology is simply a method, not a voice that says anything. It's simply the methodology whereby a topic us researched in order to see what ALL of scripture has to say on a subject, including its satellite topics that surround its proximity in subject matter for a more holistic understanding to broaden the scope of meaning...in a nutshell. For details you can read Wayne Grudem's book on the subject. I doesn't agree with everything he covers, but his material is enlightening.
Hope you find people who agree with you on everything so that you get along with them without the fanfare of sensationalizing on things they never said nor implied...
MM
Yes. There is a category of believers at the Bema who's works will be burnt up, they will be saved but only as one escaping through the flames:
1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
2 Corinthians 5: 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
Salvation is the gift of God, but there will be some level of acknowledgement or reward for faithful service that can be forfeited by those who do no faithful service for the Lord. They will still be saved by the blood of Jesus, but they will be embarrassed when they appear before him.
God Bless You
1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
2 Corinthians 5: 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
Salvation is the gift of God, but there will be some level of acknowledgement or reward for faithful service that can be forfeited by those who do no faithful service for the Lord. They will still be saved by the blood of Jesus, but they will be embarrassed when they appear before him.
God Bless You
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That's always good advice but we need to be mindful and precise when we read the N.T.
Near enough is just not good enough when we touch doctrinal points.
Your quotation from Romans will no doubt align with an interpretation that ignores the
heavy context, within the letter to the Romans.
Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren.
Now I will use bold face to highlight the important clause in Romans 8:29.
Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren.
Some folk see the word, "predestined", and they immediately think divine determinism for salvation.
Yet, the predestination is specifically concerning emulating His Son in the Christian life.
Further, Paul is narrating the rise and fall of the nation of Israel; please read Romans, 9,10,11.
Those He foreknew are simply the Jews.
See how the context ( Romans 1-11 ) dramatically alters our understanding of the letter to the Romans.
Seems strange that you would even mention taking the whole Bible into account, when folk cannot
even recognise the context in one letter?
Near enough is just not good enough when we touch doctrinal points.
Your quotation from Romans will no doubt align with an interpretation that ignores the
heavy context, within the letter to the Romans.
Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren.
Now I will use bold face to highlight the important clause in Romans 8:29.
Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren.
Some folk see the word, "predestined", and they immediately think divine determinism for salvation.
Yet, the predestination is specifically concerning emulating His Son in the Christian life.
Further, Paul is narrating the rise and fall of the nation of Israel; please read Romans, 9,10,11.
Those He foreknew are simply the Jews.
See how the context ( Romans 1-11 ) dramatically alters our understanding of the letter to the Romans.
Seems strange that you would even mention taking the whole Bible into account, when folk cannot
even recognise the context in one letter?
I do not separate the lake of fire from the wrath of God nor from hell itself.
Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us.
Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us.
Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
Meaning no one will see the Lord being operational in your life.
He will surely deny you rewards that He initially desired to bestow.
That was Jesus speaking to Jews in reference to the future of the Jewish people, who must endure the time of the Tribulation.
Those who endure to the end will be saved and delivered into the Millennium.
He will surely deny you rewards that He initially desired to bestow.
That was Jesus speaking to Jews in reference to the future of the Jewish people, who must endure the time of the Tribulation.
Those who endure to the end will be saved and delivered into the Millennium.
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Yes. There is a category of believers at the Bema who's works will be burnt up, they will be saved but only as one escaping through the flames:
1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
2 Corinthians 5: 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
Salvation is the gift of God, but there will be some level of acknowledgement or reward for faithful service that can be forfeited by those who do no faithful service for the Lord. They will still be saved by the blood of Jesus, but they will be embarrassed when they appear before him.
God Bless You
1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
2 Corinthians 5: 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
Salvation is the gift of God, but there will be some level of acknowledgement or reward for faithful service that can be forfeited by those who do no faithful service for the Lord. They will still be saved by the blood of Jesus, but they will be embarrassed when they appear before him.
God Bless You
1 Corinthians 3:14-15
If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames.
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Either Jesus spoke about the Jewish people about the future, or Jesus speaks about spiritual Israel, and not the Israel of the flesh, ( who are not the children of God. Romans 9:6-8.)
Many false prophets do rise to make up an interpretation, and Jesus tells of a universal hatred, of many betraying one another, because of love going cold. ( at the end/in the last days, as Jesus told us all about, men shall be lovers of their own selves/despisers/haters of those that are good/traitors/betrayers. 2 Timothy 3:1-4.)
So everybody in this whole world who does not understand/believe in the commandment of Christ, to love one another, (John 15:17.) hates one another instead, and the ones who do love one another are hated by everyone who has no love of God in their heart, ( hatred is by many on those few.)
John 15 further explains who the most hated are, and of course it has nothing to do with the Jewish people, ( they are not all Israel which be of Israel/ he is not a Jew which is one outwardly, neither is is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. Romans 9:6-8.2 :28-29.) it is entirely because of the world first hating Jesus Christ, the world persecutes Christ, and then likewise persecutes the Christ follower, and all is done for Christ's name sake, because they do not know God.
In John 17, Jesus prays for the ones who will believe on Christ through the word of Jesus's disciples, ( the ones who endure to the end now.) who are all one together, speaking the same word of Christ, believed on and loved, or all hated of all men, all the same and cannot be any different.
Jesus shows why the world hates His followers, and why the world first hated Him, because Jesus Christ and all of His followers are not of the world, they are all not of the world even as Jesus Christ Himself is not of the world. Jesus Christ came into the world, came in the flesh, and testified to all of this world about our sins, and the world hates Jesus Christ for telling us all the truth, then they hated the Father, and the Son, and the ones who are one together with the Father and with the Son, and Jesus doing the works no other had done, to receive forgiveness for us all by taking all the sin He testified to the world about, onto Himself on the cross, and rising up gaining forgiveness for us all from the Father, which is the world seeing and believing in the Father and the Son, or hating Him without a cause as written in the law of the Jews.
Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
John 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jesus Christ is the example to follow, who shows everything to believe in, and what salvation is. Salvation is not the offerings made by the Jews, but it is all that is testified in the scriptures, of the Son of God fulfilling all the will of God, to preach in the great congregation, to not hide the word of God, to not hide the righteousness of God, ( not hidden in His heart/kept from others, as the law of God was in His heart to declare it.) but declaring the faithfulness of God and His salvation, HIs lovingkindness and truth all told by Christs works to the great congregation.
We are told where salvation is, it is near to those who fear God. ( to be glorified by God. Romans 8:30.)
Psalms told how the cup of salvation would be taken, in the name of the Lord. How salvation is far from the wicked, ( salvation is near those who fear Him.) the wicked do not seek the statutes/commandments/right ways of the Lord.
The pleasure of the Lord is in His people, the meek who He makes beautiful with salvation.
Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O Lord, thou knowest.
10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.
Psalm 85:9 Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.
Psalm 116:13 I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the Lord.
14 I will pay my vows unto the Lord now in the presence of all his people.
Psalm 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.
Psalm 149:4 For the Lord taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
Jesus took the cup of salvation, ( He had to give His blood to earn salvation for us.) and we have to drink this same cup worthily.
The Spirit of the Lord rests upon the Messiah, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. With righteousness He then judges the poor, and reproves with fairness for the meek of the earth. ( makes the meek beautiful with salvation/slays the wicked with the breath of His lips/the wicked are far from salvation, they seek not His statutes.)
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord is the stability of His times, and strength of salvation, the fear of the Lord is His treasure. Christ gave that knowledge of salvation: the fear of the Lord. (Jeremiah 32:40.)
Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
1 Corinthians 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isaiah 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the Lord is his treasure.
Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Jesus both earned salvation and retained it, that is what we are testified, that is what we do the same. Jesus putting on righteousness as a breastplate, a helmet of salvation, He was just and lowly, riding on a donkey, having salvation, having Godly sorrow gives repentance, not to need to be repeated, by taking the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, the Word of God, to stand in the very same salvation of our Lord Jesus Christ, in the truth, having on the breastplate of righteousness, ( retaining salvation just as Christ did, it cant be any different to follow Him, or we would be following someone else to another and the wrong place.) to work out your salvation with fear of God, as Christ did all through that Spirit of the fear of the Lord, to not be as those drunk in the night not caring what they do, and telling others to also do as you please, but to know the importance of being sober, to put on the correct breastplate of faith and love, the right hope of salvation for your helmet as Christ had on, to know that being chosen to salvation is through sanctification of the Spirit, ( the Spirit of the fear of the Lord.) and belief of the truth, how the captain of our salvation was made perfect through HIs sufferings, proving how essential what He had to do to earn and retain salvation for us, we have to endure the same sufferings with Christ, as when He retained salvation He was made perfect, ( the third day perfected. Luke 13:32.) to become our author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. ( the wicked disagree, salvation is far from those who do not do His statutes.)
Isaiah 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.
Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
We are told where salvation is, it is near to those who fear God. ( to be glorified by God. Romans 8:30.)
Psalms told how the cup of salvation would be taken, in the name of the Lord. How salvation is far from the wicked, ( salvation is near those who fear Him.) the wicked do not seek the statutes/commandments/right ways of the Lord.
The pleasure of the Lord is in His people, the meek who He makes beautiful with salvation.
Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O Lord, thou knowest.
10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.
Psalm 85:9 Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.
Psalm 116:13 I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the Lord.
14 I will pay my vows unto the Lord now in the presence of all his people.
Psalm 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.
Psalm 149:4 For the Lord taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
Jesus took the cup of salvation, ( He had to give His blood to earn salvation for us.) and we have to drink this same cup worthily.
The Spirit of the Lord rests upon the Messiah, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. With righteousness He then judges the poor, and reproves with fairness for the meek of the earth. ( makes the meek beautiful with salvation/slays the wicked with the breath of His lips/the wicked are far from salvation, they seek not His statutes.)
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord is the stability of His times, and strength of salvation, the fear of the Lord is His treasure. Christ gave that knowledge of salvation: the fear of the Lord. (Jeremiah 32:40.)
Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
1 Corinthians 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isaiah 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the Lord is his treasure.
Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Jesus both earned salvation and retained it, that is what we are testified, that is what we do the same. Jesus putting on righteousness as a breastplate, a helmet of salvation, He was just and lowly, riding on a donkey, having salvation, having Godly sorrow gives repentance, not to need to be repeated, by taking the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, the Word of God, to stand in the very same salvation of our Lord Jesus Christ, in the truth, having on the breastplate of righteousness, ( retaining salvation just as Christ did, it cant be any different to follow Him, or we would be following someone else to another and the wrong place.) to work out your salvation with fear of God, as Christ did all through that Spirit of the fear of the Lord, to not be as those drunk in the night not caring what they do, and telling others to also do as you please, but to know the importance of being sober, to put on the correct breastplate of faith and love, the right hope of salvation for your helmet as Christ had on, to know that being chosen to salvation is through sanctification of the Spirit, ( the Spirit of the fear of the Lord.) and belief of the truth, how the captain of our salvation was made perfect through HIs sufferings, proving how essential what He had to do to earn and retain salvation for us, we have to endure the same sufferings with Christ, as when He retained salvation He was made perfect, ( the third day perfected. Luke 13:32.) to become our author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. ( the wicked disagree, salvation is far from those who do not do His statutes.)
Isaiah 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.
Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
John 4:21-22
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The whole world had access to salvation and sharing in the blessings and promises made to Abraham, but only through entry into Israel by becoming a Jew. Replacement theology has many professing believers teaching and following other false doctrines opposed to this fact. It wasn't until Israel had fallen that:
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Why?
Ephesians 2:11-12
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Many have read these passages from their replacement theology vantagepoint, then swept them under the rug so that they're not in view as opposing texts and contexts that are contrary to their
Hebrews was written to the...Hebrews. not to the Gentiles. James wrote to the...Hebrews, to the scattered tribes of Israel, not to Gentiles.
Replacement theology has so many people believing so many evil and wicked things. In relation to those of us who are of Israel, Gentiles were adopted, which is a far better cry than the claim for being "spiritual Israel..." whatever that means. My adopted children are not my spiritual children, they are mine as if they were of my flesh. To think of them only in a distant manner as spiritual children of mine...no. They are so much more to me.
MM
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The whole world had access to salvation and sharing in the blessings and promises made to Abraham, but only through entry into Israel by becoming a Jew. Replacement theology has many professing believers teaching and following other false doctrines opposed to this fact. It wasn't until Israel had fallen that:
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Why?
Ephesians 2:11-12
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Many have read these passages from their replacement theology vantagepoint, then swept them under the rug so that they're not in view as opposing texts and contexts that are contrary to their
Hebrews was written to the...Hebrews. not to the Gentiles. James wrote to the...Hebrews, to the scattered tribes of Israel, not to Gentiles.
Replacement theology has so many people believing so many evil and wicked things. In relation to those of us who are of Israel, Gentiles were adopted, which is a far better cry than the claim for being "spiritual Israel..." whatever that means. My adopted children are not my spiritual children, they are mine as if they were of my flesh. To think of them only in a distant manner as spiritual children of mine...no. They are so much more to me.
MM
It is hard to believe that you can use 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 to nullify the direct warnings from the
Holy Spirit.
Your quotation concerns the building of the church on the foundation which Paul laid.
Your quotation has nothing to do with the required endurance in the Christian life.
I
Holy Spirit.
Your quotation concerns the building of the church on the foundation which Paul laid.
Your quotation has nothing to do with the required endurance in the Christian life.
I
Chat GPT can sort this out for you.
That's a discerning question, and you're right to consider the context carefully.
1 Corinthians 3:10–15 does primarily deal with how leaders and teachers in the church build upon the foundation of Jesus Christ, who is explicitly called the foundation in verse 11:
Here’s the key idea of the passage:
Primarily, this is about the quality of ministry work done by those who labor in the church—especially its leaders. It's corporate more than personal. It’s about how the church is being built on Christ: Are people teaching the truth? Are they building with love, truth, humility—or with self-glory, error, or superficial teaching?
But there are implications for personal endurance and faithfulness:
If you're looking for more direct instruction on endurance and not falling away, passages like:
These are more specifically about personal endurance in the faith.
Summary:
That's a discerning question, and you're right to consider the context carefully.
1 Corinthians 3:10–15 does primarily deal with how leaders and teachers in the church build upon the foundation of Jesus Christ, who is explicitly called the foundation in verse 11:
“For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” (v.11)
Here’s the key idea of the passage:
- Paul is using a construction metaphor to describe how he (and others) are building the church.
- Christ is the only true foundation.
- Others (teachers, apostles, pastors, etc.) build on that foundation with either precious materials (gold, silver, costly stones) or inferior materials (wood, hay, straw).
- The “Day” (meaning the Day of Judgment) will test each one’s work by fire to see what endures.
Primarily, this is about the quality of ministry work done by those who labor in the church—especially its leaders. It's corporate more than personal. It’s about how the church is being built on Christ: Are people teaching the truth? Are they building with love, truth, humility—or with self-glory, error, or superficial teaching?
But there are implications for personal endurance and faithfulness:
- Though the passage is not mainly a direct warning to individual believers about falling away, it does imply that some work may be burned, though the worker himself is saved “yet so as through fire.” (v.15)
- This highlights a sobering truth: it is possible to build poorly on the true foundation, and while one might still be saved, the fruit of their labor might not endure.
If you're looking for more direct instruction on endurance and not falling away, passages like:
- Hebrews 3:14 – “For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.”
- Matthew 24:13 – “But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”
- Revelation 2:10 – “Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
These are more specifically about personal endurance in the faith.
Summary:
- 1 Corinthians 3:10–15 is about the building of the church, especially the responsibility of those who lead and teach.
- It’s not primarily about personal endurance in salvation, but it does relate to the eternal significance of how we live and serve Christ.
- For teachings on faithfulness and not falling away, other passages (like Hebrews and Revelation) are more directly focused.
I will let junior deal with this.
Chat GPT.
❖ Can a Christian lose their salvation by walking in the flesh?
Short Answer:
If someone persists in walking in the flesh without repentance, it raises the question of whether they were truly born again to begin with.
Key Passages:
Walking in the flesh is incompatible with living in the Spirit. The Spirit of God transforms the true believer, and while believers do struggle and fall at times, a life characterized by unrepentant sin is a denial of that transformation. If someone lives habitually in the flesh, it suggests they may not have truly known Christ, even if they professed Him.
❖ Can a Christian lose their salvation by not enduring in their faith in Jesus Christ?
Short Answer:
Yes—if one does not endure in faith, they will not be saved. But those who are truly born of God will endure, because He sustains them.
Key Passages:
Endurance is not what earns salvation—it’s the evidence that salvation has truly taken root. A faith that withers shows it was never truly alive. As Jesus taught in the parable of the sower, some receive the word with joy, but when trials come, they fall away (Matthew 13:20–21).
❖ Is falling away a reality or a misunderstanding of God’s sovereignty?
Biblical Tension:
There’s a real tension in Scripture between:
So what is the heart of the matter?
God is sovereign, yes. But He sovereignly works through faith, through love, and through endurance. He doesn’t override our will to keep us in Christ; He transforms our will by the Spirit so that we walk in love, obedience, and trust.
Final Thoughts:
Falling away is real, but it doesn't mean someone had salvation and then lost it like misplacing a wallet. It means they never truly knew Christ—their root was shallow, their love cold, their faith external.
But for the one who truly loves Christ, who stumbles yet rises again, who clings to Him—there is no condemnation. Christ will hold you fast.
Chat GPT.
❖ Can a Christian lose their salvation by walking in the flesh?
Short Answer:
If someone persists in walking in the flesh without repentance, it raises the question of whether they were truly born again to begin with.
Key Passages:
- Romans 8:13 – “If you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.”
- Galatians 5:19–21 – Lists the works of the flesh and warns: “Those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Walking in the flesh is incompatible with living in the Spirit. The Spirit of God transforms the true believer, and while believers do struggle and fall at times, a life characterized by unrepentant sin is a denial of that transformation. If someone lives habitually in the flesh, it suggests they may not have truly known Christ, even if they professed Him.
❖ Can a Christian lose their salvation by not enduring in their faith in Jesus Christ?
Short Answer:
Yes—if one does not endure in faith, they will not be saved. But those who are truly born of God will endure, because He sustains them.
Key Passages:
- Hebrews 3:14 – “For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.”
- Colossians 1:22–23 – “…if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel…”
- Matthew 24:13 – “The one who endures to the end will be saved.”
Endurance is not what earns salvation—it’s the evidence that salvation has truly taken root. A faith that withers shows it was never truly alive. As Jesus taught in the parable of the sower, some receive the word with joy, but when trials come, they fall away (Matthew 13:20–21).
❖ Is falling away a reality or a misunderstanding of God’s sovereignty?
Biblical Tension:
There’s a real tension in Scripture between:
- God’s sovereignty in saving and preserving His people:
- “He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion.” (Philippians 1:6)
- “My sheep hear my voice… no one will snatch them out of my hand.” (John 10:27–29)
- The genuine warnings about falling away:
- “Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.” (Hebrews 3:12)
- “Some have made shipwreck of their faith.” (1 Timothy 1:19)
- God is sovereign—and no one He truly saves will be lost.
- But Scripture never lets us take that as a license for spiritual complacency.
- Those who fall away were never truly born of God, though they may have tasted the truth (Hebrews 6:4–6), just as Judas walked with Jesus but never truly knew Him.
So what is the heart of the matter?
True salvation is marked by enduring faith and love.
Faith that fades, love that grows cold, a life lived in the flesh—these are signs that one may have never truly known Christ, even if they thought they did.
Faith that fades, love that grows cold, a life lived in the flesh—these are signs that one may have never truly known Christ, even if they thought they did.
God is sovereign, yes. But He sovereignly works through faith, through love, and through endurance. He doesn’t override our will to keep us in Christ; He transforms our will by the Spirit so that we walk in love, obedience, and trust.
Final Thoughts:
Falling away is real, but it doesn't mean someone had salvation and then lost it like misplacing a wallet. It means they never truly knew Christ—their root was shallow, their love cold, their faith external.
“They went out from us, but they were not of us...”
—1 John 2:19
—1 John 2:19
But for the one who truly loves Christ, who stumbles yet rises again, who clings to Him—there is no condemnation. Christ will hold you fast.