Master of Divinity Student

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Inquisitor said:
So your saying that the following verses support Gentiles only speaking in tongues. To demonstrate to the
Jews that tongues are for the Jews only?

Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking
with tongues and prophesying. (disciples at Ephesus)

1 Corinthians 14
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks
in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.

Paul is speaking to the next generation in the Corinthian church. Paul wrote this first letter to the Greeks
in the very late fifties. That refutes the idea that tongues were for the Jewish church only. Paul's letter to Corinth
warns the Gentiles not to forbid speaking in tongues. 1 Corinthians was addressed to a Gentile church.

Why would God command the Gentile church not to forbid speaking in tongues, twenty five years after
Pentecost?
Click to expand...

Remember, tongues are not some jibberish speach, but actual languages. Let's start there.

Acts 19, I would say these are Jews since they are disciples of John the Baptist.

1 Corinthians 14 is about speaking in the language of the audience. It could best be summed up as the guidelines on how “tongues” should be used in the local assembly. Paul explains where the Corinthians are wrong in their approach to tongues and their use.
The term “unknown” is mentioned 6 times in this chapter. This term is a reference to a tongue that the speaker does not know, or the hearer does not know or understand.

There are three types of languages or "tongues" in scripture:

1. “New tongues” - Languages that are new, and the speaker has not learned them (Mk. 16:17).
2. “Other tongues” - Languages that are not the native tongue of the speaker (Acts 2:4; 1 Cor. 14:21), which he may have learned, and the hearer understands (1 Cor. 14:18).
3. “Unknown tongues” - These are languages that are unknown to everyone in the congregation, and need an interpreter (vs. 13, 27).
 
Inquisitor said:
To whom is Paul speaking to in chapter two of the letter to the Romans?
Click to expand...

I say no because chapter 1 clearly gives the audience.

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul is writing to the believers at Rome, and in chapter 2 he is speaking about man in general. As in Romans 9-11, Paul switches to whom he is speaking about, the Jews in particular. All giving the Roman believers a better perspective of the world they live in.
 
Lamar said:
So, please, ask away! I will answer anything

Why was the Samaritan woman at Jacob's Well not considered Jewish by Jesus? IOW, why are Samaritans not Jewish?
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The Samaritans were a mixture of Jews and other nationalities. The Babylonians forcibly moved peoples to break and subjugate them. Because of the fact that they did not hold to the Torah, they weren’t considered Jews.
 
John146 said:
Remember, tongues are not some jibberish speach, but actual languages. Let's start there.

Acts 19, I would say these are Jews since they are disciples of John the Baptist.

1 Corinthians 14 is about speaking in the language of the audience. It could best be summed up as the guidelines on how “tongues” should be used in the local assembly. Paul explains where the Corinthians are wrong in their approach to tongues and their use.
The term “unknown” is mentioned 6 times in this chapter. This term is a reference to a tongue that the speaker does not know, or the hearer does not know or understand.

There are three types of languages or "tongues" in scripture:

1. “New tongues” - Languages that are new, and the speaker has not learned them (Mk. 16:17).
2. “Other tongues” - Languages that are not the native tongue of the speaker (Acts 2:4; 1 Cor. 14:21), which he may have learned, and the hearer understands (1 Cor. 14:18).
3. “Unknown tongues” - These are languages that are unknown to everyone in the congregation, and need an interpreter (vs. 13, 27).
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should start with
pagan tongues ARE gibberish or babbling.
 
Dino246 said:
The Samaritans were a mixture of Jews and other nationalities. The Babylonians forcibly moved peoples to break and subjugate them. Because of the fact that they did not hold to the Torah, they weren’t considered Jews.
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So was it because of the mixture of nationalities or not holding to the Torah that made them not Jewish?

Or both?
 
Lamar said:
So was it because of the mixture of nationalities or not holding to the Torah that made them not Jewish?

Or both?
Click to expand...
The Samaritans retained belief in the God of Israel (Yahweh) and observed the Torah (first five books of Moses), but:
• They rejected the Jerusalem Temple.
• They believed the proper place of worship was Mount Gerizim, near Shechem.
• They had their own version of the Pentateuch, with slight differences from the Jewish text.

Why Were the Samaritans Ostracized?

1. Ethnic and Religious Purity
• Jews, especially after the Babylonian exile (6th century BC), placed high importance on ethnic and religious purity.
• The Samaritans were viewed as ethnically mixed and religiously compromised.
• This created a deep divide, particularly after the return of the exiles and the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem under Ezra and Nehemiah.

Rejection of Samaritan Help
• When the Jews returned from Babylonian exile to rebuild the Temple, the Samaritans offered to help (see Ezra 4:1–3).
• Jewish leaders refused their help, seeing them as impure.
• In response, the Samaritans opposed the rebuilding and later built their own temple on Mount Gerizim.

Rival Temples and Worship
• The existence of two rival temples—Jerusalem and Gerizim—solidified the division.
• Jews viewed the Samaritan temple as heretical.
• Samaritans accused Jews of changing the faith by emphasizing Jerusalem.

By the time of Jesus:
• Jews and Samaritans had been at odds for centuries.
• Jews often avoided Samaritan territory (John 4:9).
• The parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25–37) is shocking precisely because Samaritans were seen as unclean outsiders.
• Jesus interacted compassionately with Samaritans (e.g., the Samaritan woman at the well, John 4), which was countercultural.
 
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Sipsey said:
The Samaritans retained belief in the God of Israel (Yahweh) and observed the Torah (first five books of Moses), but:
• They rejected the Jerusalem Temple.
• They believed the proper place of worship was Mount Gerizim, near Shechem.
• They had their own version of the Pentateuch, with slight differences from the Jewish text.

Why Were the Samaritans Ostracized?

1. Ethnic and Religious Purity
• Jews, especially after the Babylonian exile (6th century BC), placed high importance on ethnic and religious purity.
• The Samaritans were viewed as ethnically mixed and religiously compromised.
• This created a deep divide, particularly after the return of the exiles and the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem under Ezra and Nehemiah.

Rejection of Samaritan Help
• When the Jews returned from Babylonian exile to rebuild the Temple, the Samaritans offered to help (see Ezra 4:1–3).
• Jewish leaders refused their help, seeing them as impure.
• In response, the Samaritans opposed the rebuilding and later built their own temple on Mount Gerizim.

Rival Temples and Worship
• The existence of two rival temples—Jerusalem and Gerizim—solidified the division.
• Jews viewed the Samaritan temple as heretical.
• Samaritans accused Jews of changing the faith by emphasizing Jerusalem.

By the time of Jesus:
• Jews and Samaritans had been at odds for centuries.
• Jews often avoided Samaritan territory (John 4:9).
• The parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25–37) is shocking precisely because Samaritans were seen as unclean outsiders.
• Jesus interacted compassionately with Samaritans (e.g., the Samaritan woman at the well, John 4), which was countercultural.
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As I asked Dino246.

How does this affect the assertion of people today who claim to be Biblical Jews?
 
Taylorj2 said:
Hello, everyone,

I have announced before that I am a master of divinity student enrolled in University. I will be obtaining my doctorate after this in theology. I have found it engaging and fun to do studies outside of schools, primarily to answer questions. A few things you should know that may provoke questions: I am a spirit-filled believer in the context of Charismatic denomination meaning I do believe in speaking in tongues. I am a continuationist and believe all the gifts are for today! I also believe a Christian can lose their salvation if they do not walk or live the life we are supposed to live in Christ.

All that to possibly start the thread. But I want anyone to ask me anything, and I will do my best to respond with a supported response. It will be a bit slower, because I am not trying to simply debate but explain why I believe what I BELIEVE with supported conclusions that may provoke you to think or look into an idea or subject, even if you disagree. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ! So, please, ask away! I will answer anything!
Click to expand...


What is your plan to do with your master's once you earn it?
 
John146 said:
Remember, tongues are not some jibberish speach, but actual languages. Let's start there.

Acts 19, I would say these are Jews since they are disciples of John the Baptist.

1 Corinthians 14 is about speaking in the language of the audience. It could best be summed up as the guidelines on how “tongues” should be used in the local assembly. Paul explains where the Corinthians are wrong in their approach to tongues and their use.
The term “unknown” is mentioned 6 times in this chapter. This term is a reference to a tongue that the speaker does not know, or the hearer does not know or understand.

There are three types of languages or "tongues" in scripture:

1. “New tongues” - Languages that are new, and the speaker has not learned them (Mk. 16:17).
2. “Other tongues” - Languages that are not the native tongue of the speaker (Acts 2:4; 1 Cor. 14:21), which he may have learned, and the hearer understands (1 Cor. 14:18).
3. “Unknown tongues” - These are languages that are unknown to everyone in the congregation, and need an interpreter (vs. 13, 27).
Click to expand...

A variety of tongues?

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.

Why would Paul say, 'do not forbid to speak in tongues'?

My church would love having folk who could speak in other languages!

1 Corinthians 14:2
For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands,
but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

Why does Paul say that a person speaking in tongues is not understood by anyone else?

Everyone spoke Koine Greek in the first century so why would God impose, an unknown language
on a church in Greece?

1 Corinthians 14:14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Why would a person's mind be unfruitful if their praying in a foreign language?

Do you hold to scripture only or do you follow a blend of traditional and scripture,
in your understanding of the text?
 
All people on this earth are just like my dog, A mutt. Mother weighed 35 pounds and father weighed 40 lbs and he weighs about 100.
There are no true pure blood lines anymore.
Maybe in the deepest forest is South America or Africa, there may be, but not in the modern world.
 
John146 said:
I say no because chapter 1 clearly gives the audience.

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul is writing to the believers at Rome, and in chapter 2 he is speaking about man in general. As in Romans 9-11, Paul switches to whom he is speaking about, the Jews in particular. All giving the Roman believers a better perspective of the world they live in.
Click to expand...

You got Romans 9-11, correct, well done.

But I will need to mark you down on chapter two.

Here is how AI understood the context of chapter two.

Who is Paul speaking to in Romans 2? (N.T. only)

1. Romans 2:1 – Paul begins by addressing:

“Therefore you are without excuse, O man, every one of you who judges; for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.” (cf. Romans 1:29–32)​

Here, Paul speaks to someone who judges others but commits the same sins. No identity is yet given, but the person is clearly hypocritical.


2. Romans 2:17 – Paul identifies the person:

“But if you call yourself a Jew, and rest upon the law, and boast in God…”​

Here Paul directly identifies the “you” as a Jew. This is the only point in the chapter where the subject is clearly named.


3. Supporting Descriptions (still within chapter 2):

Paul continues describing this person as someone who:


  • “approves what is excellent” because they are “instructed from the law” (v. 18)
  • “are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind…” (v. 19)
  • “you who teach others, do you not teach yourself?” (v. 21)
  • “you who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal?” (v. 21)
  • “you who boast in the law, through your breaking the law, do you dishonor God?” (v. 23)

This clearly applies to someone with deep knowledge of the law, i.e., a Jew.


4. Contrast with Gentiles:

Paul contrasts this person with Gentiles:


“For when Gentiles who do not have the law do by nature what the law requires…” (Romans 2:14)​

This contrast strengthens the fact that Paul’s main subject in chapter 2 is someone who has the law — again, a Jew.


5. Conclusion – Romans 2:28–29:

Paul wraps up the chapter by redefining Jewish identity:


“For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly…”​

This again confirms that the chapter’s main audience is a Jew, and Paul is correcting a false confidence in outward religion.


✅ Conclusion (N.T. only):

According to Romans 2 itself, Paul is speaking directly to a Jew—someone who possesses the law, boasts in God, teaches others, but breaks the very law they uphold. Paul confronts their hypocrisy and false assurance, showing that true righteousness is internal and that all—Jew and Gentile—need the gospel (as developed in Romans 3).
 
Taylorj2 said:
I don't believe that they did. This is one of the topics I am most interested in researching, but I do believe that they continued. I believe the Gifts will cease when Christ returns (1 Cor. 13).
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Why would the gifts continue but not the ministries of the Holy Spirit?
 
Inquisitor said:
Why would the gifts continue but not the ministries of the Holy Spirit?
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Because Jesus (The reason the gifts are in operation and testify to) has come on the earth and is physically present, therefore they are no longer needed.
 
Taylorj2 said:
Because Jesus (The reason the gifts are in operation and testify to) has come on the earth and is physically present, therefore they are no longer needed.
Click to expand...

Can you explain that reply more deeply because I don't understand what your saying?
 
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