MODERN CHRISTIANS WORSHIPPING THEIR HEATHEN GODS--by tossing out the 7th Day Sabbath

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Quote where I said:

Im sinless

I overcome by my own power

I think Im righteous


How could you be saved if your not sinless? What makes you more sinless than someone else?




if you can lose salvation by not overcoming, which you claim. Then how can anyone interpret what you say anyplace else?




You must think your righteous. Or else you would lose salvation would you not? Your the one claiming one can lose salvation if they do not live up to some standard. not me..

Exactly. For if I had said them you could have quoted, instead you now say: How could - if you - You must think

You give false witness,

I never said those things, you put them on me by your own devising. You freely put words in my mouth I never spoke.
 
Exactly. For if I had said them you could have quoted, instead you now say: How could - if you - You must think

You give false witness,

I never said those things, you put them on me by your own devising. You freely put words in my mouth I never spoke.

Welcome to the club my friend.
 
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

We are called to have these conversations. We are called to discuss these matters. My goal is to proclaim the truth. If it helps someone become closer to Yah, then I give all praise to him, but that is not my goal. There is evil in the seed. The time of the end is coming, and the word says that there is a great deception. I refuse to buy into the deception, and I will defend the truth to my death.

This is just a humble thought. From what I can tell, I don't think either side is going to convince each other. Both sides seem to have scripture to back their beliefs up. I emphasis seem. So why not go to God in humble prayer? Ask Him which direction is best? And I understand some of you might say "Why ask God for something already in scripture?" I can understand your point, but obviously this is an important issue for a lot of you, and there is a dispute. I believe the Holy Spirit can clear things up. Love all you guys.
 
Exactly. For if I had said them you could have quoted, instead you now say: How could - if you - You must think

You give false witness,

I never said those things, you put them on me by your own devising. You freely put words in my mouth I never spoke.

lol.. Dude. you think this helps your cause?

Did you not say you can lose your salvation? yes or no??

Did you not say those who do not obey the law will not be saved?? yes or no.

Did you not say that we must overcome sin in rder to be saved (maybe in not those exact words) Yes or no?

Have you ever tried to go back over the hundreds of posts to look for something someone said.

The mere fact you are not correcting what I said. but just claim I can;t prove it shows your true self.
 
OKAY REALLY. You tell me, as a registered nurse, how I'm just going to leave my patients to starve and die because I have to honor the whatever you call it. I'm good at doing nothing on any day that I have off, and usually I read my bible and strengthen my relationship with God.
 
Welcome to the club my friend.

Yep. welcome to the club of saying in one breath we are not justified by the law. But in another. if we do not obey the law we will not be saved (a contradiction only some people like myself must be able to see.
 
There is NO WAY that everyone could abide this. How are people supposed to tell their employers they can't work Sunday? That's not reasonable. God isn't going to judge people for say becoming a nurse or a chef when they knew they'd have to work on Sunday. I think it's fair to say that people should take a day each week to work on their relationship with God. Just can't be every seventh, not feasible.
 

Yep. welcome to the club of saying in one breath we are not justified by the law. But in another. if we do not obey the law we will not be saved (a contradiction only some people like myself must be able to see.
crazy isn't it? lol some people amaze me bro.
 
teach me how to be " holy " in the flesh and and teach me to be " righteous " in the flesh that i can depend on " myself " as you seem to think your doing, and please tell me how your righteousness has surpass our precious brother paul, chosen to minister to the gentiles who said our " flesh " serve the law of sin, but apparently your not like us or like brother paul, i didn't know the flesh has been changed already? has your pride truly blinded you that bad? all i can do is pity and hope that maybe one there you can realize something is wrong for you can clearly see in scriptures that it's impossible by the flesh to follow the law but yet you trying to " perfect " yourself by attempting to follow it perfectly and saying you can lose your salvation if you don't if that is the case then you already lost it, and not a soul will be saved because the flesh is subject the law of sin, transgression against the law


[h=3]Romans 7:24-25[/h]King James Version (KJV)

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.





[h=3]1 Corinthians 15:53-56[/h]King James Version (KJV)

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.


but hey your the most righteous people, so i guess you don't have to put on incorruptible, because apparently you manage to perfect your flesh to follow the law which the bible says

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 
Where do you get off sitting in the throne of Messiah, friend? You are overreaching your bounds by saying that others are going to hell. It is not your job to judge another's salvation. Someone whose shoes you are not fit to tie has already been given that job. You can explain to him when he returns why you are sitting on his throne.

My God said his law was an eternal covenant (legal agreement.) Specifically, he was talking about his Torah. These words came out of his very mouth. If he violates his covenant with his chosen people, then what makes you think his word is any good to you?

My god is the same yesterday, today and forever. That means he didn't change his mind, forsake the Jews and his own Torah, and suddenly decide everything was different. Forever means forever. Show me, in scripture, not with your ranting and raving and placing yourself in the Throne of Messiah, that this Covenant of Forever has been done away with. Show me how your god changed his mind. Show me where Messiah ever said not to obey the commandments.

Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

I will trust the words that came out of my Father's mouth. I will trust the words that come out of Messiah's mouth. I will trust his truth. I will trust his words. Your words are meaningless. His are life-giving. His words are an eternal spring, yours are the mutterings of a sinful soul.
You place yourself in the seat of the King and seek to take his scepter of Judgement. You will be judged in return. Repent, and beg for forgiveness now, before it's too late.


this is why i pray for God to come quickly... no one know how hurt i feel watching this keep going on and on, i tried so hard this one time trying to speak to some of my friends who are adventist, trying to tell them we need to be born again, even showed them scriptures of what happens when a person is born again, i said nothing wrong brothers and sisters all i did was show the word of God, then everyone of them started to attack me, and might i add, some of these people commit adultery almost everyday, they lie, curse, and TURN AROUND and tell me I'M LOST because i don't follow the commandment? it's so sad... but God sees everything and we all have to go before the great white throne this will come back to haunt some people, you honestly believe your keeping something, and you honest believe your holy, that's self righteousness.. without you even knowing your being self righteous, i have no holyness at all, i have no righteousness, i have to lean on God everyday for his holyness to be in me, would be nice if some of you can stop a moment and just think and look at your life and stop being so STUBBORN and wrong and STRONG, it's going to be your down fall.. just listen for once
 
sigh " you win " God bless and have a wonderful day

[h=3]1 Timothy 1:5-7[/h]King James Version (KJV)

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
 
There is NO WAY that everyone could abide this. How are people supposed to tell their employers they can't work Sunday? That's not reasonable. God isn't going to judge people for say becoming a nurse or a chef when they knew they'd have to work on Sunday. I think it's fair to say that people should take a day each week to work on their relationship with God. Just can't be every seventh, not feasible.

Exo 34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

Oh but Edward, you may lose your job, then what would happen to us?

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Been there and done that. God has ALWAYS been faithful.
 
Matthew 5:17-20 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus never said we were going to Hell for breaking one commandment....... He only made the point that there will be "great" & "least", so be careful for judging someone to hell..... That's God's job.
 
Matthew 5:17-20 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus never said we were going to Hell for breaking one commandment....... He only made the point that there will be "great" & "least", so be careful for judging someone to hell..... That's God's job.

Just wanted to add how truly magnificent those who are least in the kingdom will be.

Luke 7:28

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
 
The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ corresponds with the Old Testament Feast of Firstfruits. 'Now is Christ risen and is become the firstfruits of them that slept'. Once the great antitype and fulfilment is gloriously revealed, there is no need to go back to the types and shadows.
 
Where do you get off sitting in the throne of Messiah, friend? You are overreaching your bounds by saying that others are going to hell. It is not your job to judge another's salvation. Someone whose shoes you are not fit to tie has already been given that job. You can explain to him when he returns why you are sitting on his throne.

My God said his law was an eternal covenant (legal agreement.) Specifically, he was talking about his Torah. These words came out of his very mouth. If he violates his covenant with his chosen people, then what makes you think his word is any good to you?

My god is the same yesterday, today and forever. That means he didn't change his mind, forsake the Jews and his own Torah, and suddenly decide everything was different. Forever means forever. Show me, in scripture, not with your ranting and raving and placing yourself in the Throne of Messiah, that this Covenant of Forever has been done away with. Show me how your god changed his mind. Show me where Messiah ever said not to obey the commandments.

Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

I will trust the words that came out of my Father's mouth. I will trust the words that come out of Messiah's mouth. I will trust his truth. I will trust his words. Your words are meaningless. His are life-giving. His words are an eternal spring, yours are the mutterings of a sinful soul.
You place yourself in the seat of the King and seek to take his scepter of Judgement. You will be judged in return. Repent, and beg for forgiveness now, before it's too late.

What you are saying in this post is that whatever else has been taught in the NT scriptures outside the gospels and the book of Revelations, no matter how inspired of God and more specifically taught by the apostle Paul concerning Christ and the law, does not hold any weight compared to what Jesus taught in the gospels. I am sure that the apostle Paul taught many things that you do not adhere to because they seem to contradict what Christ (the Messiah) taught. Do you disagree with the fact that the revelation and knowledge Paul received and taught the church concerning the law was given and revealed to him by the Lord Jesus Christ or are you under the persuasion as others on this site that many things he taught was of his own opinion?
 
Never meant as shouting, rather as pointing out a point. It is sad to me that when one highlights or raises the letters or capitalizes it is interpreted as shouting
How sad, anyway, that is an emotional response both ways and interpreted wrong,
I will try to respect you, even though there is no respect of persons before God. We are all the same and here to share and highlighting is to point out what we are trying to share importantly

Big large letters look like shouting also it is not our place to convict. We show scripture and let the Holy Spirit convict. We should pray that God will open our eyes. A smaller post is better for highlighting than a large post. A smaller post will be read a post with many words more likely will not be fully read.

We should show scripture and trust God will work.
 
1 Peter 2:21 KJV
(21) For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Jesus left us an example and we should follow in His steps. The sabbath command also has an example which we should follow

Exodus 20:8-11 KJV
(8) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
(10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
(11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


God has commanded in this for us to work 6 days and to keep the 7th day sabbath. Why should we do this? Verse 11 starts with the word for meaning God at creation gave an example of working 6 days and keeping the 7th day as the sabbath. So we are to follow God's example.
 
Honestly, it's easier than giving up smoking. I've done both, so I can speak to this. My heart WANTS to rest on the Sabbath.

I took on the Sabbath as a personal dare with my Father. I found a book full of truths, but I still doubted because it was so far away from what I had been taught. I prayed in faith, "I'm going to keep the Sabbath. Please show me if it's the right thing to do."

That first week, the Sabbath seemed so long and peaceful. I cared for my child, watched a movie, and ate a turkey sandwich for lunch. The next week FLEW by. It was like the work seemed so easy, and the Sabbath came flying at me again. I felt rested for the first time in my adult life, and even my two-year-old seemed to understand that we were resting.

I've been doing it ever since. Now I walk in knowledge, and faith. Certainly I have failed, and been lured into activities and shopping and parties and traveling. I was not always the woman I am today. It took time and mistake making, conviction in my spirit, and a willingness to be "peculiar."

I'm sort of a high energy person. I work ten hours, then work at home on my garden, house, baking, family, hobbies, and studies. I run myself to exhaustion every single day. Each Friday night, I drink the wine and break the bread. We cook a roast or some other special meal that can be set to be done at dark, enjoy the Shabbat meal, and for the only time that week, I actually just sit down. The next day, we usually eat last night's leftovers, as the Hebrews did with the manna.

Here's a beautiful side effect that I just can't contain and have to share. :D My husband was leaning toward Wicca when I met him, and in fact was a stated agnostic. I still felt confident he was the man for me. We've been together 7 years (completion!!). I have taken inspiration from the widow looking for justice, and have brought my cause before the judge again and again in prayer. My husband began keeping the Shabbat with me, and now says he needs to participate in preparing us for it on Friday, since I work that day now. He is now talking about how he needs to learn more about the Bible. Last night, we spent two hours discussing the book of Daniel.

Why does he now believe that Yahweh, the god of the Bible, the god of the Jews, is truth? Because of Yah's testimony in me. Because I don't just "walk in faith" without finding out the truth of things. Because I can show him Biblically why I do what I do. Even non-believers know that the Shabbat has not been done away with, and that Sunday is Sun-God-Worship day. Non-believers know that Christianity doesn't even know what it's worshiping. It was his disdain over the hypocrisy of Christianity that drove him away every time he drew close.

Yahweh's faithfulness to reward my obedience to the Torah has changed my husband's heart. Not my glory, but Yahweh's. If I had not read that book, or decided to act in faith instead of pride, I would not have been able to pull this soul, this man that I love so much, into the boat before the end. :D I'm so grateful for Yeshua's sacrifice, and Yahweh's forgiveness. I'm so grateful that a man like my husband, who always says he knows he's going to hell, can feel the spiritual need to know the father better because of my obedience and willingness to humble myself and admit that perhaps, in the past, I've been wrong. :D

That was quite a rant. Thanks for listening. I'm so humbly grateful to be able to say these words since I have prayed so long for My Love's salvation. Shalom.

Hi there; did your idea of what you call the Sabbath arise because you wanted to go back under the law, from being under grace?

or was it because Christ our Passover who (at the Resurrection) became the firstfruits of them that slept, is at the right hand of God, and so you want to honor Him particularly on the first day of the week?

If the latter, my 2c would be that it's not the Sabbath, but the Lord's Day... :)
 
Here is an answer concerning the idea that Ellen White had an obelisk on her grave, from the White Estate:

Subject: Obelisk on Ellen G. White's Grave? Sep. 15th, 2008

? Question

Good day,
I am a SDA and have been told that Ellen White and her husband each have an obelisk over there
grave. Is this true, and if it is, could you tell me the history of it or direct me to some
sources so i can reasearch it myself?
-----------

! Answer

Dear Brother _______,

Thank you for contacting the Ellen G. White Estate. There is indeed an obelisk on the family plot
where Mrs. White and her husband are buried, though it is not the tombstone for either of them,
but rather serves as the family marker in the center of the plot. Some people have expressed
surprise and concern to find an obelisk on the White family plot because of the obelisk's
connection to pagan worship in Egypt and to other questionable associations. Evidently, however,
many people in the 19th century didn't think this was a problem. Adventists of that era seem to be
among them. While looking for something else, we recently found correspondence relating to this
question among the letters of George I. Butler, who was General Conference President when James
White died in 1881 and for a number of years after. On February 12, 1884, Elder Butler wrote to
Mrs. White,

"The dark colored granite monument at B.C. [Battle Creek] which you looked at I ordered for your
husband's grave last week at your son Willie's invitation. He told me to have it charged to you. I
regret to do this while the money lies in the office which his friends contributed to show him
respect for his memory. Will desired me to have this money put in the European Mission Board, but
I don't feel that I am authorized to do that without their consent. There is about $170 now in the
office for that purpose and more that is subscribed which would be paid in if called for."

This indicates that Mrs. White had seen the monument, and perhaps her son W. C. White had as well.
W. C. White gave Elder Butler approval for its purchase. A letter from Elder Butler to W. C. White
on February 10 of that year discusses the cost of the monument "with the headstone and other
stones" and says that it "will be erected as soon as you send on the inscription." It is clear
that the White family was involved in the selection of the monument.

Twenty years later, in 1904, Mrs. White wrote about a different suggestion for James White's
monument:

After my husband had been laid away in the grave, his friends thought of putting up a broken shaft
as a monument. "Never!" said I, "never! He has done, singlehanded, the work of three men. Never
shall a broken monument be placed over his grave!" ... {1SM 105.1}

We can only guess, but it may be that in contrast to that suggestion, she was quite pleased to
have such a well-formed, symmetrical monument placed on the family plot.

Some have asked about the obelisk and its supposed connection to Freemasonry. Seeing the obelisk
on the family plot, a few have even supposed that Mrs. White must have been involved herself in
the Masonic movement. This is an unwarranted conclusion. Mrs. White was an outspoken opponent of
Freemasonry. While she was in Australia, she was even shown two secret signs of high-ranking
Masons, which she made in the presence of an Adventist worker who was deeply entangled in
Freemasonry. She urged him to sever his connection with it. She also counseled others not to be
involved with Masonic orders.

So why the obelisk? Evidently she did not regard it as inherently a Masonic or pagan symbol,
regardless of the fact (whether known to her or not) that Masons and sun worshipers had used it.
Symbols mean what people take them to mean. The cross itself was once an abhorrent symbol of Roman
oppression and cruelty, but today Christians around the world hold it as a symbol of our
redemption through Christ. Symbols may change their meaning. I remember being shocked once to see
in an old synagogue a symbol that I would call the swastika. Nazi Germany gave that symbol a
certain meaning, but evidently it had not always had that meaning. When James White began to
publish the Review as a bi-weekly publication(it became weekly in September of 1853), along with
the date of publication he soon gave the standard name for the day of the week on which it was
published, whether Monday or Thursday (the day of publication varied some in those days).
Soon, however, he made a change. The issue published "Thursday, May 12, 1853," was followed two
weeks later by the one published "Fifth-day, May 26, 1853." For several decades the paper
designated its publication day variously as "Fifth-day" and "Third-day" (for Tuesday), apparently
out of concern over the days' having been named for pagan gods. By the January 1, 1880, issue,
however, the practice returned to using the standard names. Apparently our pioneers decided by
then that the use of those names carried no compromise of their faith. No one using those names
today makes any devout reference to the pagan gods. The names simply don't symbolize those gods
for people today, regardless of whatthey may once have meant. Similarly, whatever occult meaning
may once have been communicated by an obelisk, as far as I know, by the 19th century at least,
this meaning seems no longer to have been operative for people generally, though it did have
continued mystic significance for Freemasons. Clearly, though, Mrs. White did not hold such
beliefs.

I hope this helps. Thank you for writing, and God bless!

William Fagal
Associate Director
Ellen G. White Estate
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD 20904-6600 U.S.A.
Phone: 301 680-6550
FAX: 301 680-6559
E-mail: [email protected]
Web: www.WhiteEstate.org