Must new covenant Christians deny God’s words if they are in the OT?

[phil112]

................................... It is you who deny Paul when Paul told us to be circumcised, not of the flesh but of the spirit as true circumcision is.........................

That is a flat out lie. You prove it. Copy and paste where I said that. If you do not show proof you either acknowledge your error or be thought of as a liar, since this isn't the first time you have done that. Killing the messenger isn't going to change the message.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

You deny that God doesn't command the gentile to keep the sabbath, along with other old testament law. Those words that Paul spoke came from Christ. Those are the words that will judge you on that day.

 

[crossnote]

I "hammer a lot on the OT" because it seems to be what is missing in the knowledge you all have, and it explains the NT. To me you seem to hammer only on the small amount of scripture that tells the end of the story of the plan God has for us, without any of the beginning chapters. It is like telling about a book's ending as the only thing important, except this is your life this book is telling about. On top of that, everyone tells me they are right, it is only the ending chapters that are important, they don't need any of the beginning chapters and when I try to fill them in, I am told it is wrong to do that. I am even accused of not believing in the end chapters if I mention the preliminary such as "do you believe in scripture given to one person rather than to another?"

It is even told that, even though Paul even went to two law courts to defend himself, the current "law court" of today's
Christian is still saying he is guilty of being against the words of the Father, and they quote his very words to "prove" it. I believe everything Paul said, his accusers of today do not. Both the Roman court and the Hebrew court freed him of these charges in Acts. If I quote anything God the Father said, and Paul verifies, I am said to be against Paul's word from the Lord.

You didn't answer my objection, why don't you give equal time to the prophets, they are part of the 'whole' bible also.

 

[RedTent]

You didn't answer my objection, why don't you give equal time to the prophets, they are part of the 'whole' bible also.

This entire thread is me against the Christian world saying that the OT is only about shadows that must not be followed, and me saying God speaks in the shadows, too. So now you say that you want the prophets brought into this? What is your position on the prophets God sent?

 

[Apostol2013]

In fact we uphold all righteousness for we live by the spirit and by doing so we full fill the law , but to show you that the life in the spirit is eternal and the law of moses was transitory , the law was the transitory veil , but now we are married espoused to another a new testament (covenant )therefore our new veil covering is of the spirit

 

[Apostol2013]

This entire thread is me against the Christian world saying that the OT is only about shadows that must not be followed, and me saying God speaks in the shadows, too. So now you say that you want the prophets brought into this? What is your position on the prophets God sent?

No in fact we are to full fill all righteousness of the spirit through study of all scriptures all scriptures

 

[crossnote]

RedTent, I'm curious. You hammer a lot on the OT, but I've noticed it's basically centers around the Mosaic Law; do you ever speak from the OT prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Joel, Micah etc? Are you sure you are embracing the 'whole bible'?

This entire thread is me against the Christian world saying that the OT is only about shadows that must not be followed, and me saying God speaks in the shadows, too. So now you say that you want the prophets brought into this? What is your position on the prophets God sent?

I had asked you this before the dogpile began. Is not the Prophets part of the whole bible? I was wondering why you don't bring them up as much as you bring up the Mosaic/Levitical system.

 

[RedTent]

In fact we uphold all righteousness for we live by the spirit and by doing so we full fill the law , but to show you that the life in the spirit is eternal and the law of moses was transitory , the law was the transitory veil , but now we are married espoused to another a new testament (covenant )therefore our new veil covering is of the spirit

Are you actually saying that God the Father did not want anyone to live by the spirit of the law and not by the letter? Have you READ the OT? That is what the entire book of Isaiah is about, the spirit and not the letter.

The OT was originally written in Hebrew from Hebrew culture. In that culture and language, they understood the close connection between what we have in the spirit and what we do, so in Greek the word for love is love, in ancient Hebrew it is to bring gifts. Often, translators did not understand this, so we must understand as we read. In the Greek culture, we may bring gifts without love, in the Hebrew culture that was not so.

In the OT we are told that the basic law is that we love God with all our hearts, in the NT that is repeated.

 

[RedTent]

You didn't answer my objection, why don't you give equal time to the prophets, they are part of the 'whole' bible also.

Because you have often said that God gave the law to curse us, but you have never said that Job, Isaiah, Ezra, or Ester were sent by God to curse us.

 

[Ariel82]

Isaiah 43:28
Therefore I will profane the princes of the sanctuary; I will give Jacob to the curse, And Israel to reproaches.

 

[oldthennew]

oh dear,

this thread seems to be covetous of contention.

this is unprofitable, it is a fleshly desire for an
emotional adrenalin rush.

confusion and division makes one servant to
an ungodly master.

may we all come together and not be of
apollos or cephas.
may love be our common denominator
that we may all come together in the
unity of the Faith.

 

[Kerry]

Okay I'm not reading the above post but just going by the OP. Paul used the OT to show the benefits of the NT as he had no NT he was writing it.

Tell me, how can you understand the benefits of DVD if you never knew an 8 track?

 

[homwardbound]

[h=3]Acts 10:43 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter[/h]

[SUP]43 [/SUP]To Him all the prophets testify (bear witness) that everyone who believes in Him [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him, giving himself up to Him] receives forgiveness of sins through His name.


[h=3]Acts 10:34-43 (PHILLIPS) | In Context | Whole Chapter[/h]
[h=3]Peter’s momentous discovery[/h][SUP]34-43 [/SUP]Then Peter began to speak, “In solemn truth I can see now that God is no respecter of persons, but that in every nation the man who reverences him and does what is right is acceptable to him! He has sent his message to the sons of Israel by giving us the good news of peace through Jesus Christ—he is the Lord of us all. You must know the story of Jesus of Nazareth—why, it has spread through the whole of Judea, beginning with Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed. You must have heard how God anointed him with the power of the Holy Spirit, of how he went about doing good and healing all who suffered from the devil’s power—because God was with him. Now we are eye-witnesses of everything that he did, both in the Judean country and in Jerusalem itself, and yet they murdered him by hanging him on a cross. But on the third day God raised that same Jesus and let him be clearly seen, not indeed by the whole people, but by witnesses whom God had previously chosen. We are those witnesses, we who ate and drank with him after he had risen from the dead! Moreover, we are the men whom he commanded to preach to the people and bear fearless witness to the fact that he is the one appointed by God to be the judge of both the living and the dead. It is to him that all the prophets bear witness, that every man who believes in him may receive forgiveness of sins through his name.”

 

[Elin]

??? I'm confused.

I've been gone from the boards for a while but I felt a need to dive back into the Bible. I try to read through the Bible at least once a year and decided to devote the next couple of weeks to intense Bible study.

I know we should study the Bible daily and pray daily. For the most part I do, but sometimes I feel that we need to sacrifice some of our time to read the whole Bible through if we are able and God has blessed us with the time, health and mind set to do so.

I apologize Redtent for babbling on your thread, but I just wanted to comment on your last post because I hate to see people who are truly striving to seek God's heart be discourage. Even if I do not agree on all points with the poster. I do see that you truly seek His heart and will.

God's truth is found in both the OT and the NT. An example is circumcision.

Many of the Israelites and many Christians today misunderstand what TRUE circumcision is: of the heart and NOT of the flesh.

It is true in the OT many of the writers stressed the circumcision of the flesh of all males on the eight day of their birth.

It was the law of God, disobedience of which was punishable by death (Ge 17:14).

However, if we read the OT through eyes opened by the HOLY Spirit we see
WHAT GOD stresses, which is not the circumcision of the flesh but of the heart.

God is not in conflict with himself.

He stresses both, the first as the sign of the covenant, and the second as a converted heart.

 

[crossnote]

RedTent, I'm curious. You hammer a lot on the OT, but I've noticed it's basically centers around the Mosaic Law; do you ever speak from the OT prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Joel, Micah etc? Are you sure you are embracing the 'whole bible'?

This entire thread is me against the Christian world saying that the OT is only about shadows that must not be followed, and me saying God speaks in the shadows, too. So now you say that you want the prophets brought into this? What is your position on the prophets God sent?

I repeat for the third time....

I had asked you this before the dogpile began. Is not the Prophets part of the whole bible? I was wondering why you don't bring them up as much as you bring up the Mosaic/Levitical system.

 

[crossnote]

oh dear,

this thread seems to be covetous of contention.

this is unprofitable, it is a fleshly desire for an
emotional adrenalin rush.

confusion and division makes one servant to
an ungodly master.

may we all come together and not be of
apollos or cephas.
may love be our common denominator
that we may all come together in the
unity of the Faith.

What kind of unity of the faith is there, when we throw out truth so we can all hold hands and sing Kum-By-Yah?

 

[The_highwayman]

It never ceases to amaze me how many in the Body, completely throw out the OT all because it does not apply to me.

To be clear, I am not talking about the law here. There are many other non-law truths in the OT that are applicable for today's walk.

I was asked to preach at a revival once and the I was given a word out of 1 Samuel 30. I studied up and preached that word and the altars filled with Christians who had been battling depression, low places, and had no teaching on encouragement and how God is faithful to give you what the enemy has taken away. Yokes were destroyed, lives changed and burdens removed, because God showed me something in 1 Sam 30 and he met with his people.

After the service the Pastor, a very good friend of mine, remarked: "In my 25 years as a Pastor, I have never thought to search the OT for a relevant message for today, I only was taught to preach/teach the NT."

That pastor began studying the OT and that revival went for another 2 weeks and many of his bruised, busted and disgusted sheep found new meat and that church turned a corner it needed to for years and is now sending out many well trained warriors into his harvest.

I believe in preaching both from the NT/OT, but I believe as a whole the body places far too much emphasis on the NT and only because of stale traditions that tell them to.

TO be clear, I don't preach the Law or OT prophecy. I see many of the OT stories that are very applicable to empower today's sons and daughters to be who God says they are and called them to be.

To be quite honest I believe there is more meat of the word in the OT, than in the NT, because to see it and udnerstand it
requires the Holy Ghost to give you revelation[the uncovering of existing knowledge] of applicable truths contained in it.

 

[RedTent]

I repeat for the third time....

I had asked you this before the dogpile began. Is not the Prophets part of the whole bible? I was wondering why you don't bring them up as much as you bring up the Mosaic/Levitical system.

and I repeat, again, please listen. It is because I have not needed to respond to your tearing down the prophets, you or your buddies haven't said that what the prophets say is not for Christians as you say of Moses.

 

[dcontroversal]

Grace is not a NT concept even living by faith is not a NT concept.

Habakkuk 2:4 “Behold the proud, his soul is not upright in him; but the just shall live by his faith"

Go back and read my post slowly bro as you missed the point......Jesus said search the scriptures for they are they which testify of me.....

the scriptures that was referenced were all of the OT prophecies that Pointed to Jesus........Starting with Genesis 3:15, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, Hagar, etc.....Grace is found dia kai dia the bible...(through and through)

 

[RedTent]

Go back and read my post slowly bro as you missed the point......Jesus said search the scriptures for they are they which testify of me.....

the scriptures that was referenced were all of the OT prophecies that Pointed to Jesus........Starting with Genesis 3:15, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, Hagar, etc.....Grace is found dia kai dia the bible...(through and through)

Would you make it clear what side you are on? One side says that God is truth and is in the OT and the other side says that the OT is only of shadows that do not apply to us. Are you saying that as long as God is speaking of Christ in the OT, we may listen? Or that God is one and eternal?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

It never ceases to amaze me how many in the Body, completely throw out the OT all because it does not apply to me.

To be clear, I am not talking about the law here. There are many other non-law truths in the OT that are applicable for today's walk.

When most speak on here concerning the OT - they are speaking of the law. I agree that some things can be applicable for today's walk - Proverbs is full of wisdom which can be applied to us. BUT we do not sacrifice bulls and goats, we do not stone people when they are in the wrong, we do not go and kill communities that are against God and plunge and plunder their spoils, circumcision profits us nothing, etc.

I was asked to preach at a revival once and the I was given a word out of 1 Samuel 30. I studied up and preached that word and the altars filled with Christians who had been battling depression, low places, and had no teaching on encouragement and how God is faithful to give you what the enemy has taken away. Yokes were destroyed, lives changed and burdens removed, because God showed me something in 1 Sam 30 and he met with his people.

After the service the Pastor, a very good friend of mine, remarked: "In my 25 years as a Pastor, I have never thought to search the OT for a relevant message for today, I only was taught to preach/teach the NT."

That pastor began studying the OT and that revival went for another 2 weeks and many of his bruised, busted and disgusted sheep found new meat and that church turned a corner it needed to for years and is now sending out many well trained warriors into his harvest.

I believe in preaching both from the NT/OT, but I believe as a whole the body places far too much emphasis on the NT and only because of stale traditions that tell them to.

TO be clear, I don't preach the Law or OT prophecy. I see many of the OT stories that are very applicable to empower today's sons and daughters to be who God says they are and called them to be.

To be quite honest I believe there is more meat of the word in the OT, than in the NT, because to see it and udnerstand it
requires the Holy Ghost to give you revelation[the uncovering of existing knowledge] of applicable truths contained in it.

Most dwell on the NT because it is written to the church - each of the seven church epistles are addressed to a church or the saints in Christ. The 10 commandments are carried through to the NT. The OT is prophecy concerning the coming Christ - the NT is prophecy concerning the second coming of Christ - our hope. Using the OT in comparison to the NT can be very profitable also and there are many great men of God to learn from in the OT. NO ONE has said "let's tear up the pages of the OT because we do not need them anymore". The OT is written for us to learn many truths from . . . . BUT the NT reveals the mystery; Christ in you the hope of glory - the NT tells us what we have in Christ; our being born of the Spirit, i.e. the new birth, our righteousness and justification by faith, our being joint heirs with Christ, etc.