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I respect your views, you clearly put a lot of time into your post.........would you consider Joel 2:28 to be regarding Pentecost? And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit on all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
I personally don't care for denominations, and if they disappeared tomorrow i wouldn't shed a tear! I do however experientially know the benefits of praying in tongues, and walking in the power of the Spirit......I would say 1 Corinthians 13: 8-12 speaks of when Jesus comes, I'm sure we won't be 'complete', and in any lesser need of manifestations of the Holy Spirit pre His return.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. We need power in the days to come, and praise God, we don't have to strive in our own strength
Healings can occur anywhere, but people in foreign countries can't always rely on a good health service. So praise God healings, prophesy, edifying ourselves, and glorifying God by speaking in tongues etc, all testify to a God who does provide, and will continue to provide as times get harder, according to His riches in glory!
I only say this because i desire that everyone thirsts to walk in the power available for them now, and as a testement of Gods power He desires to pour on His people. For the sake of Christians, and lost souls who need people, now as ever with a fire to reach them with the gospel. Of course any Christian can have a burning desire to reach the lost, but there's more power available through the Holy Spirit poured out on us .
None of the above should replace a relationship with Jesus, prayer, Bible reading etc, but should give us further desire to strive in all! Also don't look to men for authority on these things, there WILL be men who abuse these gifts, as always, look to Gods word!
God Bless, Tim
I personally don't care for denominations, and if they disappeared tomorrow i wouldn't shed a tear! I do however experientially know the benefits of praying in tongues, and walking in the power of the Spirit......I would say 1 Corinthians 13: 8-12 speaks of when Jesus comes, I'm sure we won't be 'complete', and in any lesser need of manifestations of the Holy Spirit pre His return.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. We need power in the days to come, and praise God, we don't have to strive in our own strength
Healings can occur anywhere, but people in foreign countries can't always rely on a good health service. So praise God healings, prophesy, edifying ourselves, and glorifying God by speaking in tongues etc, all testify to a God who does provide, and will continue to provide as times get harder, according to His riches in glory!
I only say this because i desire that everyone thirsts to walk in the power available for them now, and as a testement of Gods power He desires to pour on His people. For the sake of Christians, and lost souls who need people, now as ever with a fire to reach them with the gospel. Of course any Christian can have a burning desire to reach the lost, but there's more power available through the Holy Spirit poured out on us .
None of the above should replace a relationship with Jesus, prayer, Bible reading etc, but should give us further desire to strive in all! Also don't look to men for authority on these things, there WILL be men who abuse these gifts, as always, look to Gods word!
God Bless, Tim
I think... (and to sum it up for the rest of you who asked me to!) my main thoughts are this:
Many charismatic type churches, including pentecostal/Assembly of God, etc proclaim that "to be filled in the Spirit, you MUST speak in tongues." This is false.
Let me make a list of my points:
1. You do NOT have to speak in tongues to be filled in the Spirit. This is false doctrine. Speaking in Tongues is but one of the gifts of the Spirit, and yet, it is the LEAST of all these gifts, as Paul stated.
2. Arrogance of "some" charismatic types of being "better" and more spiritually "alive" Christians: This is false doctrine. They claim that, because they speak in tongues, they are "more" filled with the Holy Spirit, "better" Christians, "other" denominations or believers are either wrong or spiritually dead, etc. This is false.
3. Many charismatic types claim to speak in tongues, and yet they do not speak in real languages. They speak in gibberish, which is an emotional scam. In scripture, EVERYONE who spoke in tongues used REAL languages, and foreigners could understand them. In these churches full of "fake" speakers of tongues, no one understands what they are saying, and the church is NOT edified, nor are they themselves. Also, the interpretations are lies as well, leading the church and all its followers astray. The Lord warns against this very strongly, and we should all be aware of what is going on in these churches. They are not producing the fruits of the Spirit, but rather producing lies and disillusions of their own minds.
4. Some charismatic types will claim that those who do not speak in tongues are not faithful, bad Christians, living in deep sin, or something along that nature. This is false doctrine, as well as harmful to the body of Christ. As others have stated, they almost lost their faith based on these people telling them they are both not filled with the Spirit, but they are basically sinful heathens who have little faith. The problem is, most of those who speak in tongues are truly not doing it through the Spirit, and they are mere victims of emotional sensationalism which can create all kinds of disillusions, ecstatic feelings, and harmful openings in their spiritual life where evil influences can enter.
5. God does NOT use emotion for spiritually mature Christians, but rather the immature "babies" who do not have strong pillars of faith to stand on. Scripture clearly states this, and yet charismatic churches are BASED AROUND emotional feelings and insane acts that are not only lies, but harmful to their followers. Many Christians follow blindly, they are arrogant and ignorant of what scripture says, and they simply believe whatever they are told. This is wrong, against the Lord's teachings, and should not be happening. The entire idea of charismatic churches of "emotion" is false doctrine, since it is not scriptural.
6. Many of the greatest "soul winners" never have, never did, and did not even believe in the Pentecostal idea of speaking in tongues. Let me ask you this: If you were an unbeliever, and you walked into a Pentecostal church where people were rolling around on the floor, shaking around, babbling gibbering, non real language "tongues", and were generally acting like madmen, would you convert? I doubt you would. I'm not saying that many evangelist charasmatics do not and cannot win souls to the body of Christ, but they are not going to do it acting like that. As Paul said before, if you speak in tongues and I do not understand, I am a foreigner to you. If I don't understand what you are saying, you are not edifying the church whatsoever. You are not winning souls.
The list can go on and on, but you get the gist of it. If you want to see the reasons why I state these things, read my OP, and if that still doesn't explain, I will try again. I've never said speaking in tongues is false, yet I do believe many who do it are truly NOT speaking in tongues through the Holy Spirit, but rather their own gibberish babble that they've taught themselves.