Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

The law is not a means of salvation, it is not given for that purpose, the point is nobody can so perfectly obey the law as to attain righteousness by it. Nor can the state of salvation be maintained by keeping the law.

Since the law did not save us how can it keep us saved?

Belief in Jesus alone is how we obtain both salvation and preservation. Happy? Now, time for you to weep:

A belief that stops short of total, continuous, unconditional surrender is what will send the devils to hell and anyone who thinks a OSAS License to Sin is a replacement for it will join them because they’re profession is a Lie (1 John 2:3-4KJV)

Much mercy for the Just Man who falls down, but NO MERCY for the Presumptuous OSAS Licensee who climbs down. 😉

 

[Phoneman-777]

Do

Reference to Ducks in the picture, Post #151,219 . Interesting Fact, Lunes sometimes Carry their ducklings on their back.

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Notice how submissive they are - no pecking at her, no arguing about the direction they’re headed, no expectation of safety if they climb off and go there own way.

It’s almost like they know they have to ABIDE in her if they are to get to their destination....

“The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib” ...but Christians??? 😉

 

[gb9]

Belief in Jesus alone is how we obtain both salvation and preservation. Happy? Now, time for you to weep:

A belief that stops short of total, continuous, unconditional surrender is what will send the devils to hell and anyone who thinks a OSAS License to Sin is a replacement for it will join them because they’re profession is a Lie (1 John 2:3-4KJV)

Much mercy for the Just Man who falls down, but NO MERCY for the Presumptuous OSAS Licensee who climbs down. 😉

was Jesus fully God and fully man while He was on earth??

 

[CherieR]

Reference to Ducks in the picture, Post #151,219 . Interesting Fact, Lunes sometimes Carry their ducklings on their back.

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How beautiful 🥰

 

[Phoneman-777]

You are judging motive a lot, as this post (and many others much like it) shows: Your assessment is people believe OSAS because they want to sin.

I disagree. There are several reasons other than a love for sin that lead people to beleive in the false doctrine of OSAS, such as a failure to recognize the Biblical distinction between the Just Man and the Presumptuous Man.

You have made that abundantly clear with all your rhetoric re: "license to sin." If you are true to your word, you will denounce yourself as an anti-Christ, now.

You're wrong. I never said a belief one has a OSAS License to Sin automatically makes such a believer anxious to sin - I said it begs the question of why do they think it's needed in the first place, and I also that it makes people vulnerable to deadly deception.

So, sorry, but I'm no Antichrist, and esteeming the OSAS License to Sin as unBiblical is a condemnation of false doctrine, not people.

 

[Phoneman-777]

was Jesus fully God and fully man while He was on earth??

100% man and 100% God.

"If you try to explain it, you'll lose your mind, but if you refuse to believe it, you'll lose your soul." Elder C.D. Brooks

 

[Phoneman-777]

God's purpose is to make us see how hopelessly lost and without hope we are ... then we will cry out "what must we do to be saved?"

You sure that's His only purpose for us? What about all that "He that doeth righteousness is righteous" and "Be ye holy even as your Father in Heaven is holy"?

Do you think the only thing salvation causes to change is just God's opinion of our sin remains, or does it change us from rebellious lawbreakers to obedient law keepers?

If you answer, "His opinion", that means He's going to burn in hell sinners for doing the exact same thing His saints do - a total miscarriage of divine justice. If you answer, "us", then you are absolutely correct, so please tell me again why do you need a OSAS License to Sin if you've been changed from a sinner who breaks the law to a saint who keeps the law?

 

[Phoneman-777]

ah, now i am starting to understand- you are one of those who do not think Jesus was fully man and God while on earth.

have not seen one of ya'll in a while......

No, I don't believe that - Jesus was fully man and fully God. When He said, "The Son of Man can do nothing of Himself", He was speaking as a man...but when He said, "Before Abraham was, I AM", verily He spoke as God.

He came to us and laid aside His divinity that by total dependence on the Father He could show us how to be faithful to God, to each other, and to fulfill His journey to Calvary.

People who claim Christ had an advantage over us when facing temptation prove the devil's claim of an unjust Creator, and they should close their mouths, open to Hebrews 12, and read how Jesus fought so hard against temptation that He sweat "as it were great drops of blood" -- Paul essentially says in the chapter that until you sweat blood fighting the urge to sin, shut up with all that "we can't keep the law" bulldookey.

 

[Phoneman-777]

O.k., I will try to referee here. I want a clean fight and no hitting below the belt from either side. I will try to be neutral like Switzerland, but will eventually state my side.

So, since I don't really know what's going on, are you a Calvin? Why do you hold your view, of once saved always saved. Scriptures?

It looks like you got everyone ready to pounce, but honestly just want to hear your side.

View attachment 226674

Hey there, stranger! A cursory reading of my post will show you I'm neither a Calvinist or a OSAS believer...the one is religion of exclusivity and the other is a License to Sin, which grants immunity for saints to do exactly that which will condemn sinners to hellfire.

Please try to do a better job than those bumbling zebras in the NFL

 

[gb9]

No, I don't believe that - Jesus was fully man and fully God. When He said, "The Son of Man can do nothing of Himself", He was speaking as a man...but when He said, "Before Abraham was, I AM", verily He spoke as God.

He came to us and laid aside His divinity that by total dependence on the Father He could show us how to be faithful to God, to each other, and to fulfill His journey to Calvary.

People who claim Christ had an advantage over us when facing temptation prove the devil's claim of an unjust Creator, and they should close their mouths, open to Hebrews 12, and read how Jesus fought so hard against temptation that He sweat "as it were great drops of blood" -- Paul essentially says in the chapter that until you sweat blood fighting the urge to sin, shut up with all that "we can't keep the law" bulldookey.

all right, thanks for your answer.

 

[Guojing]

People who claim Christ had an advantage over us when facing temptation prove the devil's claim of an unjust Creator, and they should close their mouths, open to Hebrews 12, and read how Jesus fought so hard against temptation that He sweat "as it were great drops of blood" -- Paul essentially says in the chapter that until you sweat blood fighting the urge to sin, shut up with all that "we can't keep the law" bulldookey.

After we get our redeemed body at the 2nd coming, without our current flesh, do you still think we can/will be able to sin?

If your answer is yes, what should we do after we commit sin?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Wow. You are in more trouble than I thought.

What, you think Jesus had advantage over us in resisting temptation? Show us the chapter and verse. I can show lots of them proving otherwise - the problem is not that He had any advantage, but that we so often neglect what He didn't.

Do we pray like Jesus did?
Do we study the Word as Jesus did?
Do we fast like Jesus did?
Do we resist the devil until we sweat blood from our pores as Jesus did?

Maybe Jesus did have an advantage: He didn't love sin like so many of us do.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You are so far fetched. The only license you need to be concerned about is your license to continue to present false accusations against we who trust our Lord and Savior and His Holy Spirit to never be separated by anything from Him.

Trusting in a false doctrine has deadly consequences. Trust in the Word and what His Word says: that belief which doesn't lead to our total, continuous, unconditional surrender is no different that the belief of devils.

We gotta "abide in the Vine" and only in the Vine; we can't divide our time between that and Satan's Holly tree.

 

[Phoneman-777]

After we get our redeemed body at the 2nd coming, without our current flesh, do you still think we can/will be able to sin?

If your answer is yes, what should we do after we commit sin?

Yes, we never lose our free will choice...

just like the drunk driver who kills someone and then resolves to never take another drink. We'll always have free will to choose sin, but along with that the scars in Jesus' hands and feet to remind us of the terrible results of what happened when Lucifer first began to think how much better it would be to start doing things his way instead of God's way.

"Affliction shall not rise up the second time." Nahum 1:9 KJV

 

[Guojing]

Yes, we never lose our free will choice...

just like the drunk driver who kills someone and then resolves to never take another drink. We'll always have free will to choose sin, but along with that the scars in Jesus' hands and feet to remind us of the terrible results of what happened when Lucifer first began to think how much better it would be to start doing things his way instead of God's way.

"Affliction shall not rise up the second time." Nahum 1:9 KJV

So what happen when we sin after the 2nd coming? Do we confess those sins to Christ to be forgiven?

And if we don't, we are not forgiven?

 

[tribesman]

Much confusion and ignorance here.

There is an ignorance of the righteousness of God revealed in the gospel, and an ignorance of Christ as the end of the law for righteousness (Rom. 10:1-4).

The SOLE CONDITION for salvation is Christ's propitiating blood and imputed righteousness; His fulfillment of the PENAL and PRECEPTIVE demands of God's law and justice.

God regenerates His people unconditionally, and an immediate and inevitable FRUIT (or RESULT) of that is FAITH.

To CONFOUND or CONFUSE FRUIT with CONDITIONS of salvation is to CONFUSE salvation conditioned on Christ ALONE, with salvation CONDITIONED on the sinner (whether "graciously" enabled or not).

Rom.11:6 is written PRECISELY against that type of false doctrine that some here articulate.

 

[kinda]

Hey there, stranger! A cursory reading of my post will show you I'm neither a Calvinist or a OSAS believer...the one is religion of exclusivity and the other is a License to Sin, which grants immunity for saints to do exactly that which will condemn sinners to hellfire.

Please try to do a better job than those bumbling zebras in the NFL

Eh Phoneman,

I'm not that strange, am I? lol Well, I just thought I stop in and say, hello.

Not sure what all the fuss was about than....

lol I know those refs bug everyone!

Well, that settles that....

 

[Evmur]

You sure that's His only purpose for us? What about all that "He that doeth righteousness is righteous" and "Be ye holy even as your Father in Heaven is holy"?

Do you think the only thing salvation causes to change is just God's opinion of our sin remains, or does it change us from rebellious lawbreakers to obedient law keepers?

If you answer, "His opinion", that means He's going to burn in hell sinners for doing the exact same thing His saints do - a total miscarriage of divine justice. If you answer, "us", then you are absolutely correct, so please tell me again why do you need a OSAS License to Sin if you've been changed from a sinner who breaks the law to a saint who keeps the law?

YOU say the doctrine of eternal security leads to licentiousness I don't. We do righteousness because we are righteous and we are holy because God is holy are matters of fact. He is just telling us how it is.

I believe He bore my sins in His own body ... how then can I therefore still have them. You can't live that way until you KNOW, your sins are gone forever.

It's not sins it is sin, the sin nature is gone. Not only has He saved us He sanctified us for ALL TIME by a single offering ... You've got to believe it, and to believe it you've got to know it and be taught it.

Christians backslide because they are poorly taught.

When we find out how completely saved we are it causes us to overflow with love and thankfulness ... that is what produces holiness.

 

[Evmur]

Belief in Jesus alone is how we obtain both salvation and preservation. Happy? Now, time for you to weep:

A belief that stops short of total, continuous, unconditional surrender is what will send the devils to hell and anyone who thinks a OSAS License to Sin is a replacement for it will join them because they’re profession is a Lie (1 John 2:3-4KJV)

Much mercy for the Just Man who falls down, but NO MERCY for the Presumptuous OSAS Licensee who climbs down. 😉

It is a contradiction in terms ... salvation is by faith alone ... oh no wait a minute ...

The problem is you are not believing, you keep looking over your shoulder "mebbe He didn't save me ... mebbe my sins are still there .... mebbe the cross is not enough ... mebbe I've got to earn my salvation."

You can't fight a war like that.

 

[JBTN]

Belief in Jesus alone is how we obtain both salvation and preservation. Happy? Now, time for you to weep:

A belief that stops short of total, continuous, unconditional surrender is what will send the devils to hell and anyone who thinks a OSAS License to Sin is a replacement for it will join them because they’re profession is a Lie (1 John 2:3-4KJV)

Much mercy for the Just Man who falls down, but NO MERCY for the Presumptuous OSAS Licensee who climbs down. 😉

One point here.

“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/1jn.2.4.kjv

This verse clearly indicates that this person does not know Christ, and was never “once saved“. So, using your analog of climbing down, this verse indicates that this person was never in a place they could climb down from.

Consider also:

“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/1jn.2.19.kjv

Many people may represent themselves as being saved when they are not. The scripture you presented here doesn’t really refute the idea of once saved always saved.