Paul - ignore his teachings?

[Deliver]

If you would read your bible you would know such things too.

)

My original post isn't asking whether he was sent by God, or anything about that. Please do not get it twisted and read what is actually written.

 

[Deliver]

A remnant of Jews is being saved now as is a remnant of the Gentiles.

The distinction between them is removed only in the body of Christ.

Then what is your belief about when the fullness of the Gentiles happened/ will happen / is happening? Is there a crossover period like around Paul's day?

(This isn't an attack, I enjoy hearing peoples opinions.)

 

[Elin]

Then what is your belief about
when the fullness of the Gentiles happened/
will happen / is happening?

I understand that to be the end of time.

 

[newlife7]

the letter kills but the Spirit gives life!

 

[newlife7]

2nd Corinthians sums up Paul and explains how one can see that Paul really was speaking for Christ, Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

 

[michael56]

Your mindeset concerning this is clearly faulty. The bible is not in competition with itself. You don't relegate one part of it-or one set of writings below another. Paul shows us how to live according to the heart of Christ's teachings, he shows us how the cross of christ will bring sin not to be our master.
People have trouble understanding Paul, and then make the unfortunate comments they do because they refuse to allow themselves to be led of the Holy Spirit into truth. I repeat, Jesus said he was limited in what he could teach thew disciles for the Spirit had not yet come upon them. Anyone who insists the Gospels takes precedence over what follows have the wrong mindset of the bible. It is all equally God inspired of the Holy Spirit. If Paul does not contradict Christ(as he surel;y doesw not) why say Christ's words take precedence? Paul preached the message given to hyim by Christ to preach.
However, this is pointless, I have never heaqrd anyone state as you have in this debate. The Christians I know would never make such coments, they recognise Paul preached the Gospel given to him by Christ himself

 

[michael56]

the letter kills but the Spirit gives life!

That statement is key, however:

Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say, ''The old is better'' Luke5:39

 

[michael56]

After the Gospels Paul wrote 14 of the remaining 23 books. I do not believe it was a coincidence nearly two thirds of the books setting out in detail the new covenant and teachi ng concerning it were written by Paul.
If you want to fully understand the new covenant in depth, you have to accept and understand Paul's writings. He was charged, more than anyone else to explain the covenant. If he was not, the bible would not contain as many of his books as it does, for the Holy Spirit ulitamtely decided which books would be in the NT.
But the natural mind of man will not understand what he wrote. Hence, in many cases statements are made concerning his writings that are-sadly

 

[michael56]

Perhaps people who have concerns as to Paul's writings would like to show us where they believe Paul contradicted Christ?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

After the Gospels Paul wrote 14 of the remaining 23 books. I do not believe it was a coincidence nearly two thirds of the books setting out in detail the new covenant and teachi ng concerning it were written by Paul.
If you want to fully understand the new covenant in depth, you have to accept and understand Paul's writings. He was charged, more than anyone else to explain the covenant. If he was not, the bible would not contain as many of his books as it does, for the Holy Spirit ulitamtely decided which books would be in the NT.
But the natural mind of man will not understand what he wrote. Hence, in many cases statements are made concerning his writings that are-sadly

I can understand people shying away from Paul's message because it has caused so many controversy. What people don't realise is that they should read the rest of the Bible while reading the letters of Paul and they will see that he never said anything that is not Biblically correct.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Perhaps people who have concerns as to Paul's writings would like to show us where they believe Paul contradicted Christ?

Michael be ready for some weird stuff but once again if you don't know the OT you will not be able to identify why people are interpreting Paul's letters the wrong way.

 

[michael56]

Michael be ready for some weird stuff but once again if you don't know the OT you will not be able to identify why people are interpreting Paul's letters the wrong way.

Well I have read the OT a few times. But as someone quoted earlier.

The letter kills but the spirit gives life. Those hung u in the leteral letter alone, will always struggle with what Paul wrote.
I agree with you, the whole bible should be read, not just one part of it. Whn I read the NT, I read each book, as much as any other(apart from revelation lol) none takes preference

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Well I have read the OT a few times. But as someone quoted earlier.

The letter kills but the spirit gives life. Those hung u in the leteral letter alone, will always struggle with what Paul wrote.
I agree with you, the whole bible should be read, not just one part of it. Whn I read the NT, I read each book, as much as any other(apart from revelation lol) none takes preference

I didn't mean you as in you but in general LOL

 

[Least]

Perhaps people who have concerns as to Paul's writings would like to show us where they believe Paul contradicted Christ?

Paul didn't contradict Christ ever. His entire ministry was about salvation through Christ.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

And Paul taught the same about us as believers: (Ephesians 4, (The entire chapter is outstanding.)

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Ephesians 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Ephesians 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

============================================
Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

What Paul said right there, is taught throughout the bible. (Here are just a few verses as there are many more.)
==============================================

Psalms 25:4 Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths.

Psalms 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
Psalms 25:9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.

Psalms 25:5 Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.

Psalms 25:12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Searching the scriptures reveals many examples of the same.

 

[Elin]

All scripture is from God, but Paul does state sometimes that what he just said was from him and not from God- therefore such statements are Paul's advise to us and not God's law. It is the same as if I copied scripture into a book, but added a side note from me- that side note is from me and is not scripture, and just like Paul did, I would state it was from me.

Keeping in mind that Paul had the authority of an apostle, which we do not have.

 

[Elin]

the letter kills but the Spirit gives life!

Yes, the law condemns all, but the Spirit gives life to those in Christ.

 

[Elin]

Your mindeset concerning this is clearly faulty. The bible is not in competition with itself. You don't relegate one part of it-or one set of writings below another. Paul shows us how to live according to the heart of Christ's teachings, he shows us how the cross of christ will bring sin not to be our master.
People have trouble understanding Paul, and then make the unfortunate comments they do because they refuse to allow themselves to be led of the Holy Spirit into truth. I repeat, Jesus said he was limited in what he could teach thew disciles for the Spirit had not yet come upon them. Anyone who insists the Gospels takes precedence over what follows have the wrong mindset of the bible. It is all equally God inspired of the Holy Spirit. If Paul does not contradict Christ(as he surel;y doesw not) why say Christ's words take precedence? Paul preached the message given to hyim by Christ to preach.
However, this is pointless, I have never heaqrd anyone state as you have in this debate. The Christians I know would never make such coments, they recognise Paul preached the Gospel given to him by Christ himself

Well said. . .and you have spoken to their error. . .lack of belief of the whole NT, as Israel failed to believe in the past.

 

[Elin]

Perhaps people who have concerns as to Paul's writings would like to show us where they believe Paul contradicted Christ?

They set the Scriptures against themselves, revealing how much they do not understand them, preferring the old wine to the new wine, and the old order to the new order (Heb 9:10).

 

[JaumeJ]

Rev 21:14
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Paul's name does not figure in the Twelve Foundations, only the original Twelve Apostles.

As is explained earlier, in the simple sense of the word, apostle, anyone who preaches teh word in spirit and truthis an apostle for it simply means sent out.
Paul is not the same os the Twelve, please do not teach this. Paul was gifted with grace and wisdom from God to impart to his fellows at his time for their specific problems. He is worthy of study and learning today, but not all of what he wrote is from God, as mentioned earlier in another post. He sometimes admitted his teaching is from himself, and not of God. You know this if you have read his epistles. Paul is not prophesied, and his personal witness, that is of his position, is only recorded in the epistles themselves. He is not to be given the status of those who are named on the Twelve Foundations.

 

[Elin]

Rev 21:14
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Paul's name does not figure in the Twelve Foundations, only the original Twelve Apostles.

As is explained earlier, in the simple sense of the word, apostle, anyone who preaches teh word in spirit and truthis an apostle for it simply means sent out.

And as shown from the Scriptures earlier:

Many do not trust Paul's writings because he calls himself an
apostle, not realizing that the word for apostle means sent out, and this
may apply to just about anyone who preaches the Word in Spirit and truth.

No, Paul is not counted among the original twelve Apostles. His name
does not figure in the foundations of New Jerusalem.

That's a fail. . .

Paul was called to be an apostle by the will of God, appointed an apostle by the command of God, and sent by Jesus Christ and God the Father (1Co 1:1; 1 Tim 1:1; Gal 1:1; 2Co 1:1 Ro 1:1; Eph 1:1; Col 1:1; 2Tim 1:1).

Paul did not accompany Jesus in his ministry as did the other 12, but
by the command and will of God and Jesus Christ, he was no less an apostle.

What God has joined (Paul and apostleship), let not man put asunder.

Judas was replaced by lot, according to prophecy, by Mathew.

And Paul's appointment as apostle,
by the will and command of God and who was sent by Jesus Christ and God the Father,
is less authoritative?

This is why people do not have this feeling of distrust with any of the Twelve, for
they are the original.
Paul, again, is not one of the Twelve, but most already know this.

So because the same Jesus who appointed the 11 as apostles, appointed Paul at a later time, Jesus' appointment of Paul engenders a "feeling of distrust"?

Unbelievable!

Believers of the NT word of God do not traffic in distrust of Jesus' appointment of any of his apostles by the will and command of God.

No better demonstration of unbelief of the NT word of God could be made.

Remember when what Paul teaches is confusing,

No. . .Peter said it is difficult to understand, and that it is wrestled and distorted, as they (including you) do the other Scriptures (2Pe 3:16), Peter thereby grouping Paul's writings with the other Scriptures.

Paul is not the same as the Twelve, please do not teach this.

Amazing!

Pure unadulterated Judaizing unbelief. . .

Paul was gifted with grace and wisdom from God to impart to his fellows at his time for their specific problems. He is worthy of study and learning today, but not all of what he wrote is from God, as mentioned earlier in another post.
He sometimes admitted his teaching is from himself, and
not of God.

Not of God?

"He was gifted with grace and wisdom from God" and yet his teaching was not of God?!!!

Staggering. . .

You know this if you have read his epistles. Paul is not prophesied, and
his personal witness, that is of his position,
is only recorded in the epistles themselves.

So after his death, Jesus didn't have the authority to appoint Paul an apostle because it was not included in the gospels?

What ridiculous nonsense! . .the corrupt fruit of unbelief of the NT word of God.

He is not to be given the status of those who are named on the Twelve Foundations.

Jesus has been judged by you. . .and found wanting in his appointment of Paul as an inferior apostle.

By their fruits you shall know them. . .