Paul - ignore his teachings?

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no. i am certain. yahweh knows every error ever posted, and when he wants to, he has me reply to them.
some of the errors are blatant, some are more subtle, and most of them are simple and from bad teaching in the churches the last several hundred/ and even (as in the heresy) thousands of years.


I'm thinking you may be confused about who posts in error. . .
 
If Paul is the first messenger / preacher to the Gentiles... When did the distinction between Jew or Israel and Gentile end?
What is everyone's opinion on the reason that there is a distinction to start?

This is something that is very interesting to me because I know of verses about grafting into the vine, I know about verses that say we are all one... So what is the need for distinction and what is the importance of Paul's role as to the Gentiles??

yahweh chose the Jews. (and according to HIS WORD, only his opinion/WORD matters - no other person's opinion does)

there is still a distinction in the world between Jew and gentile.

in yahshua hamashiach, immersed in him, abiding in him, the distinction ends. (i.e. in the new creation)

in yahshua hamashiach, there is no need for distinction. it doesn't exist when ekklesia are assembled in him and in union in him. (the distinction in various groups is artificial and divisive, apart from yahweh's WORD)

yahweh called and chose paul for what he called and chose paul for. a vessel , a messenger, of the GOOD NEWS to the goyim. most of the world church/world's churches/ does not understand him, just as it is written. yahweh's decision. yahweh's plan. yahweh's purpose. yahweh's WORD.
 
Jesus Christ is Paul's Teacher, as He is ours. Paul's epistles, letters, are to varied assemblies with varied problems addressed. Some were disputes over law, others on customs of the land, others, similar but not the same, on traditions, some on how the Gosple of Jesus Christ is to be understood (interpreted); and much more. There are teachings on gifts, conduct, speech and more. Paul is in agreement 100% with our Lord, Jesus Christ, but so many misconstrue what Paul writes instead of going on the subject to Jesus Christ, Who has invited us to learn directly from Him. What a privilege we all have to learn of God, Himself.!


If Paul is the first messenger / preacher to the Gentiles... When did the distinction between Jew or Israel and Gentile end?
What is everyone's opinion on the reason that there is a distinction to start?

This is something that is very interesting to me because I know of verses about grafting into the vine, I know about verses that say we are all one... So what is the need for distinction and what is the importance of Paul's role as to the Gentiles??
 
My little finger hit a key, and posted before I was finished abov-e.

Many do not trust Paul's writings because he calls himself an apostle, not realizing that the word for apostlele means sent out, and this may apply to just about anyone who preaches the Word in Spirit and truth.

No, Paul is not counted among the original twelve Apostles. His name does not figure in the foundations of New Jerusalem. Judas was replaced by lot, according to prophecy, by Mathew. This is why people do not have this feeling of distrust with any of th eTwelve, for they are the original. Paul, again, is not one of the Twelve, but most already know this.

Remember when what Paul teaches is confusing, it is not understood first from God, that is from the Gosple of Jesus Christ, first.

Blessed be our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, amen.
 
Jesus said there was much more he wanted to tell the disciples, more than they could bear, but when the Holy Spirit came upon them, he would lead them into all truth(John 16)

The Holy Spirit was upon Paul and the other writers of the Epistles, and they wrote to others also filled with the Holy Spirit. Therefore, if you want to understand the heart of the Gospel message you have to understand the letters of those who wrote the books after the Gospels.
According to Christ himself, his teaching could be understood without the fulness of the Holy Spirit dwelling in a person and leading them into truth. To understand what follows in the NT requires leading of the Spirit into truth.
I wonder if those who stress ''Christ's teaching'' and speak of this taking preference over the message Christ gave Paul to preach, may be doing so as they are not prepared to embrace the fulness of the Holy Spirit in their own lives to lead them into truth. Therefore, they must stick with what can be understood withot that fulness leading them into all truth.
It is a shame, as Paul taught such a powerul message, one that shows us how to live according to the heart of Christ's teaching
 
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One other reason many doubt Paul is because there are no prophesies of his coming, and there is no account of his being selected by God except within the Epistles.

One again, I believe Paul is in total agreement with Jesus Christ.

As concering the infilling of the Holy Spirit, even I have experienced the beautiful gift of the Holy Spirit, and I found myself prophesying before actually reading the Word. I say prophesying in the sense of repeating the Word of God, giving witness to Jesus Christ as Messiah, and quite a bit more.

I believe all people who have received the Holy Spirit have experienced much of what I have just described. Many times when they feel the Presence they will praise and share wonderous knowledge. Jesus Christ did give the Twelve knowledge, much more than I or any brother or sister has received in the same manner.

Jesus Christ does not mention another Apostle who will have exclusive access to te knowledge you quote as He was going to reveal to the Apostles, not at all. The Apostles were completed by the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Again, for months after having received the Holy Spirit, besides great joy and wonder, I was indiginant having learned just how badly the Gospel has been treated over the centuries along with Jesus Christ, Himself. He needs no creaturee to defend Him, no, He defends us, but still I was indignant, and I still am.

Paul is in accordance with the Gospel of Jesus Christ as delivered by Him. Paul attests to this in his letters. Paul does not make his understanding exclusive from the Twelve, so why to men try to do this?

Jesus Christ is Lord, not Paul. Paul is simply a teacher who is in total agreement with Jesus Christ and the Twelve.
 
Anyone who allows themself to be led of the Holy Spirit into truth will praise God for the message given to Paul to preach. Quite frankly, it is absurd to hear coments like, 'some are reticent to accept Paul because there are no prophecies of his coming/there os no account of his being selected by God except in the Epistles.'' The Holy Spirit in the individual will bring them to recognise Paul's message as a message given him by Christ himself to preach, a message of great power that goes into the deep truths of the new covenant.
Those who do not understand Paul's message, or stress Christ's teaching must take preference are simply not allowing themselves to be fully led of the Holy Spirit into truth-despite the fact they may believe otherwise
The message was not Paul's own, it was given to him by revelation from Christ himself, refuse to accept it-or try and downgrade to your peril
 
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The tone of your posting sounds like an accusation agains my posting on Paul. Which of the facts or truth do you find faault in. In all of my posts, I have been careful to say Paul and Jesus Christ are in agreement. Other than my having pointed out a few truths about Paul's status as an apostle next to the original Twelve Apostles, I have not indicated a lack of his qualifications as a teacher. So, what is the problem here. Do you belong to Paul? Paul is the first to say all who believe the Gospel of Chris, which Paul teaches, belong to Christ. If you find need for a confrontation, you will not find it with me, however if when I say Jesus Christ comes beforew all man, including Paul you wish to dispute it, go right ahead, but you will answer for it to the Judge of us all.


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Anyone who allows themself to be led of the Holy Spirit into truth will praise God for the message given to Paul to preach. Quite frankly, it is absurd to hear coments like, 'some are reticent to accept Paul because there are no prophecies of his coming/there os no account of his being selected by God except in the Epistles.'' The Holy Spirit in the individual will bring them to recognise Paul's message as a message given him by Christ himself to preach, a message of great power that goes into the deep truths of the new covenant.
Those who do not understand Paul's message, or stress Christ's teaching must take preference are simply not allowing themselves to be fully led of the Holy Spirit into truth-despite the fact they may believe otherwise
The message was not Paul's own, it was given to him by revelation from Christ himself, refuse to accept it-or try and downgrade to your peril
 
If Paul is the first messenger / preacher to the Gentiles... When did the distinction between Jew or Israel and Gentile end?
What is everyone's opinion on the reason that there is a distinction to start?

This is something that is very interesting to me because I know of verses about grafting into the vine, I know about verses that say we are all one... So what is the need for distinction and what is the importance of Paul's role as to the Gentiles??

If we read 1 Kings 12 we see that Israel was divided into 2 kingdoms. The Northern kingdom (Israel) and the Southern kingdom (Judah or as we know them the Jews). ABBA Father divorced Himself from the 10 northern kingdoms and they were removed from God's presence 2 Kings 17: 18-19.

Yeshua said Mat 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." We have to understand that Yeshua cannot lie and if He said He came for the house of Israel, it was for the house of Israel. We will be the house of Israel when Yeshua returns.
 
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Elin said:
The Mosaic law was merit, not grace.
when and if yahweh allows, you will see.

so far, several have tried to let you know more gently and more kindly, so to speak(for your sake),
and you have rejected those through whom yahweh sent his WORD to help you.

whoever you're trusting has a strong hold on you, so it will probably take quite a while, if ever.

only yahweh knows how long you have..... and those to whom he reveals, if any.

I wouldn't take much notice of Jeff if I were you. He thinks all Roman Catholics, most if not all Baptists, Presbyterians and Methodists, all Republicans, and all Lawyers are doomed from the start.
Agreed. . .he is confused about who posts in error.
 
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Elin said:
I'm thinking you may be confused about who posts in error. . .
no. i am certain.
yahweh knows every error ever posted, and when he wants to, he has me reply to them.
some of the errors are blatant, some are more subtle, and most of them are simple and from bad teaching in the churches the last several hundred/ and even (as in the heresy) thousands of years.
Does that apply only to you?
 
yahweh chose the Jews. (and according to HIS WORD,
only his opinion/WORD matters - no other person's opinion does)
Agreed. . .

there is still a distinction in the world between Jew and gentile.
His word spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers
states there is not (Gal 3:26-29).

God does not contradict himself in his word, and your setting the word of God against itself shows how much you have yet to understand.

You're confused about who posts in error.
 
My little finger hit a key, and posted before I was finished abov-e.

Many do not trust Paul's writings because he calls himself an
apostle, not realizing that the word for apostlele means sent out, and this
may apply to just about anyone who preaches the Word in Spirit and truth.

No, Paul is not counted among the original twelve Apostles. His name
does not figure in the foundations of New Jerusalem.
That's a fail. . .

Paul was called to be an apostle by the will of God, appointed an apostle by the command of God, and sent by Jesus Christ and God the Father (1Co 1:1; 1 Tim 1:1; Gal 1:1; 2Co 1:1 Ro 1:1; Eph 1:1; Col 1:1; 2Tim 1:1).

Paul did not accompany Jesus in his ministry as did the other 12, but
by the command and will of God and Jesus Christ, he was no less an apostle.

What God has joined (Paul and apostleship), let not man put asunder.

[quoteJudas was replaced by lot, according to prophecy, by Mathew.[/quote]
And Paul's apostleship by the will and command of God, who sent by Jesus Christ and God the Father is less?

This is why people do not have this feeling of distrust with any of the Twelve, for
they are the original.
Paul, again, is not one of the Twelve,
but most already know this.
Believers of the NT word of God do not traffic in distrust of any of God's apostles.

That is a sign of unbelief of the NT word of God.

Paul was called to be an apostle by the will of God, appointed an apostle by the command of God, and sent by Jesus Christ and God the Father (1 Tim 1:1; Gal 1:1; 1Co 1:1; 2Co 1:1 Ro 1:1; Eph 1:1; Col 1:1; 2Tim 1:1).

Remember when what Paul teaches is confusing,
No. . . it is difficult to understand and is wrestled and distorted like many of the other Scriptures,
as we see here.
 
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I desire that people would stop building doctrine off of their misunderstandings of Paul.
It is so crazy that people throw out the whole Bible and teachings of Christ.
If anyone thinks that Paul contradicts Jesus whatsoever it is because you do not understand him whatsoever.
Please seek out the things which you think are contradictory and study for yourself until you have reconciled him to Christ.

It is not that hard with the Spirit of truth but it does require you to seek past your presuppositions and learn a bit about the terms Paul used when he spoke. My heart goes out to all of you who have been led astray and work so hard to diminish and obscure the teachings of our Lord in favor of your doctrinal poison.


I am going to share some of the final words of our Lord, His last instructions to us the church.
They speak for themselves to anyone willing to listen. There is no mention of anything being easy or everyone being covered or no need to worry about living in sin and disobedience. Calling Jesus "Lord" will not save us if we do not abide in Him and live according to His truth. Surely this is the same Lord as the one in the Gospels, not some pushover who welcomes sin with open arms... Sinners yes, but then they must leave that sin at the door or they do not gain entry.
Our Lord is still Holy, even after He was resurrected. The things He taught while He was alive are still good and perfect and true as they came from the Father.

To the Church in Ephesus
“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ‘The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.

2 “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. 3 I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary. 4 But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. 6 Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’


To the Church in Smyrna
8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.

9 “‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander[a] of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’


To the Church in Pergamum
12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: ‘The words of him who has the sharp two-edged sword.

13 “‘I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. Yet you hold fast my name, and you did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality. 15 So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth. 17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’


To the Church in Thyatira
18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: ‘The words of the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and whose feet are like burnished bronze.

19 “‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first. 20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants[c] to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works, 23 and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works. 24 But to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call the deep things of Satan, to you I say, I do not lay on you any other burden. 25 Only hold fast what you have until I come. 26 The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star. 29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’


To the Church in Sardis
3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.

“‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. 4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’


To the Church in Philadelphia
7 “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: ‘The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens.

8 “‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you. 10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. 11 I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. 12 The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. 13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’


To the Church in Laodicea
14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
 
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Indeed Paul is set up daily to not only contradict Christ and the Bible, but to clearly contradict himself many times over.
Do not take things out of context to make him contradict himself lol. Attempt to understand his perspective and the life that he lived, read the whole letter carefully to make sense of the isolated verses which people base their entire theology from.
 
Paul answers that question in Gal 3:26-29.

We are all the same in Christ, there is no Jew or Greek, and there will be a remnant of Israel elected and saved.
(Some believe all Israel).
But how to reconcile that understanding with Romans 11:25?
 
Hi all,
I am enjoying reading these debates and opinions and studies on subjects.

Can anyone tell me if there are any recent threads on the subject of Paul and whether his teachings were right or wrong, etc, or is it a subject that has been killed?
Have people been banned due to it, or are there people on here who believe such?

Char

... I'm not of the opinion that his teachings are wrong and I don't write this to start a debate. Just wanting to ask all the long term regulars on this site because they should know such things...

If you would read your bible you would know such things too.

[SUP]1[/SUP] And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
[SUP]2[/SUP] And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
[SUP]3[/SUP] And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
[SUP]4[/SUP] And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
[SUP]5[/SUP] And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
[SUP]6[/SUP] And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
[SUP]7[/SUP] And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
[SUP]8[/SUP] And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
[SUP]9[/SUP] And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
[SUP]10[/SUP] And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
[SUP]11[/SUP] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
[SUP]12[/SUP] And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
[SUP]13[/SUP] Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
[SUP]14[/SUP] And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
[SUP]15[/SUP] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
[SUP]16[/SUP] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
[SUP]17[/SUP] And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]18[/SUP] And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
[SUP]19[/SUP] And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
[SUP]20[/SUP] And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Jesus Himself called Paul to be His Apostle to preach the Gospel of the Good News to far-flung places of the world and I have the utmost confidence in Jesus' decision and that He knew exactly what He was doing. Therefore we have to conclude that Paul's writings were inspired by the Holy Ghost and are, therefore, The inspired word of God.


[SUP]10[/SUP] For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
[SUP]11[/SUP] But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
[SUP]12[/SUP] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Paul)
 
All scripture is from God, but Paul does state sometimes that what he just said was from him and not from God- therefore such statements are Paul's advise to us and not God's law. It is the same as if I copied scripture into a book, but added a side note from me- that side note is from me and is not scripture, and just like Paul did, I would state it was from me.
 
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We are all the same in Christ, there is no Jew or Greek, and there will be a remnant of Israel elected and saved.
(Some believe all Israel).
But how to reconcile that understanding with Romans 11:25?
A remnant of Jews is being saved now as is a remnant of the Gentiles.

The distinction between them is removed only in the body of Christ.