Poll: Do "One Taken/Other Left" Verses Refer To Secret Rapture or Second Coming?

[Phoneman-777]

Where In the Historicist view, is (Ellen G. Whites) (Investigative Judgement) mentioned?

The early Historicist view doesn't acknowledge it directly. But, should Luther have been considered a heretic for denouncing the practice of selling Indulgences which he discovered as unBiblical from Scripture? Should Luther have condemned baptism by immersion as unBiblical because it wasn't discovered in Scripture until after his time? What about the Sabbath? There are a growing number of Christians who have had it with preachers telling them that "tradition" can be substituted for the commandments of God...are they heretics too?

If it's in the Bible, we ought to follow it. How about you try to disprove it?

 

[Truth7t7]

The early Historicist view doesn't acknowledge it directly. But, should Luther have been considered a heretic for denouncing the practice of selling Indulgences which he discovered as unBiblical from Scripture? Should Luther have condemned baptism by immersion as unBiblical because it wasn't discovered in Scripture until after his time? What about the Sabbath? There are a growing number of Christians who have had it with preachers telling them that "tradition" can be substituted for the commandments of God...are they heretics too?

If it's in the Bible, we ought to follow it. How about you try to disprove it?

Don't condemn Luther for the heresy in Ellen G. Whites (Investigative Judgement) after the false prediction of the 1844 return of Jesus Christ

A completely new false doctrine was created within the Milletites/7th day Adventist

Blame it on Luther, Smiles!

 

[Phoneman-777]

Don't condemn Luther for the heresy in Ellen G. Whites (Investigative Judgement) after the false prediction of the 1844 return of Jesus Christ

A completely new false doctrine was created within the Milletites/7th day Adventist

Blame it on Luther, Smiles!

Look, ad hominem is no substitute for argument, OK? Let's hear your BIBLICAL, NOT BIGOTED, objections to the following, if you are able to offer any:

1) You may or may not know the Jewish Encyclopedia of the OT defines the Feast Day of Atonement as "the day of Judgment" and took place at the end of the ritual year just before the Feast of Tabernacles. It was when the high priest would minister in the Most Holy Place cleansing the Sanctuary, at which time the opportunity for the people to get right with God would come to an end - probation was closing on them, and those who didn't get it right were "cut off from the congregation". Can you see why the Jewish Encyclopedia refers to it as "Judgment"? When the high priest finished his work and exited the Sanctuary, his work of intercession was over and the joyful celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles would take place.

This Feast Day - like all the other Feast Days which highlight a particular aspect of Jesus as both our Sacrifice and High Priest - is a description of the work of our High Priest Jesus Christ in the Heavenly Sanctuary Ministry of Intercession where He will complete His Day of Atonement Investigative Judgment before He comes back to gather the saints, no longer as High Priest, but as Conquering King.

2) How can Jesus say, "I come quickly and My reward is with Me to give to every man" unless He has first determined what those rewards before He comes via an Investigative Judgment?

3) The prophecy of Daniel 7 clearly depicts an end time Judgment scene taking place while the Little Horn Papacy is still running his mouth, which means it is before Jesus comes back to the Earth and puts an end to blasphemers, right or wrong?

4) David plainly establishes in Psalm 7 a pre-Advent Investigative Judgment by virtue of two reasons:

a) by pointing out that God is judging the righteous while He "is angry with the wicked every day" which means it is going on in the here and now before Jesus comes.​

​

b) by comparing God's judgment of the righteous with the end of the ritual year Day of Atonement time of Judgment, where the people gather around the Earthly Jewish Sanctuary and wait for the High Priest to complete his work of Judgment before He exits the Most Holy Place and and enters the midst of the cheering multitudes, just as Jesus will complete His Investigative Judgment and remove His priestly robes and put on His kingly robes before coming back to collect the dead and alive saints on Earth.​

5) Psalm 11 plainly says the Lord sits on His throne and His eyes "trieth" the righteous (H974 "bachan"), which Strong's says means "to investigate" as in a "trial", which is taking place before Jesus' Second Coming, right or wrong?

So, unless you can explain away all these texts, please stop referring to the doctrine of "Investigative Judgment" as SDA EGW heresy, and admit it is firmly established on the Word of God, OK?

 

[Truth7t7]

Look, ad hominem is no substitute for argument, OK? Let's hear your BIBLICAL, NOT BIGOTED, objections to the following, if you are able to offer any:

1) You may or may not know the Jewish Encyclopedia of the OT defines the Feast Day of Atonement as "the day of Judgment" and took place at the end of the ritual year just before the Feast of Tabernacles. It was when the high priest would minister in the Most Holy Place cleansing the Sanctuary, at which time the opportunity for the people to get right with God would come to an end - probation was closing on them, and those who didn't get it right were "cut off from the congregation". Can you see why the Jewish Encyclopedia refers to it as "Judgment"? When the high priest finished his work and exited the Sanctuary, his work of intercession was over and the joyful celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles would take place.

This Feast Day - like all the other Feast Days which highlight a particular aspect of Jesus as both our Sacrifice and High Priest - is a description of the work of our High Priest Jesus Christ in the Heavenly Sanctuary Ministry of Intercession where He will complete His Day of Atonement Investigative Judgment before He comes back to gather the saints, no longer as High Priest, but as Conquering King.

2) How can Jesus say, "I come quickly and My reward is with Me to give to every man" unless He has first determined what those rewards before He comes via an Investigative Judgment?

3) The prophecy of Daniel 7 clearly depicts an end time Judgment scene taking place while the Little Horn Papacy is still running his mouth, which means it is before Jesus comes back to the Earth and puts an end to blasphemers, right or wrong?

4) David plainly establishes in Psalm 7 a pre-Advent Investigative Judgment by virtue of two reasons:

a) by pointing out that God is judging the righteous while He "is angry with the wicked every day" which means it is going on in the here and now before Jesus comes.​

​

b) by comparing God's judgment of the righteous with the end of the ritual year Day of Atonement time of Judgment, where the people gather around the Earthly Jewish Sanctuary and wait for the High Priest to complete his work of Judgment before He exits the Most Holy Place and and enters the midst of the cheering multitudes, just as Jesus will complete His Investigative Judgment and remove His priestly robes and put on His kingly robes before coming back to collect the dead and alive saints on Earth.​

5) Psalm 11 plainly says the Lord sits on His throne and His eyes "trieth" the righteous (H974 "bachan"), which Strong's says means "to investigate" as in a "trial", which is taking place before Jesus' Second Coming, right or wrong?

So, unless you can explain away all these texts, please stop referring to the doctrine of "Investigative Judgment" as SDA EGW heresy, and admit it is firmly established on the Word of God, OK?

777 the (Investigative Judgement) was created after the 1844 William Miller (False Prediction) on the second coming of Jesus Christ, (The Cover) for this false prediction.

Ellen G. White was a follower of William Miller, and part of the (Great Disappointment) in 1844

The cleansing of the sanctuary and investigative judgement is a 7th Day Adventist Sham.

 

[Phoneman-777]

777 the (Investigative Judgement) was created after the 1844 William Miller (False Prediction) on the second coming of Jesus Christ, (The Cover) for this false prediction.

Ellen G. White was a follower of William Miller, and part of the (Great Disappointment) in 1844

The cleansing of the sanctuary and investigative judgement is a 7th Day Adventist Sham.

If it’s such a “sham” you should be able to EASILY show how the verses I provided for its support don’t establish it.

But you didn’t.

Because you can’t. [I already knew you couldn’t anyway, so no surprise ]

 

[Truth7t7]

If it’s such a “sham” you should be able to EASILY show how the verses I provided for its support don’t establish it.

But you didn’t.

Because you can’t. [I already knew you couldn’t anyway, so no surprise ]

Fact is, you know well the (Investigative Judgement) followed the 1844 false prediction of the second coming

You are silent to this (Fact) why?

Of course it was a (Developed) doctrine to cover the 1844 false prediction

 

[Phoneman-777]

Fact is, you know well the (Investigative Judgement) followed the 1844 false prediction of the second coming

You are silent to this (Fact) why?

Of course it was a (Developed) doctrine to cover the 1844 false prediction

If someone challenged me to show Biblically where they are wrong, I’d either step up or shut up - but that’s my generation’s “toxic masculinity” problem.
We never learned how to stand on the sideline of the arena of ideas mouthing off and then lie to ourselves later about how gloriously we competed.

 

[Truth7t7]

If someone challenged me to show Biblically where they are wrong, I’d either step up or shut up - but that’s my generation’s “toxic masculinity” problem.
We never learned how to stand on the sideline of the arena of ideas mouthing off and then lie to ourselves later about how gloriously we competed.

The Failed Prediction Of The Second Coming In 1844, Then Turned Into The Investigative Judgement, No Secret, A New Doctrine Developed In 1844, To Cover The False Prediction, Fact

Wikipedia: The Great Disappointment in the Millerite movement was the reaction that followed Baptist preacher William Miller's proclamations that Jesus Christ would return to the Earth by 1844, what he called the Advent. His study of the Daniel 8 prophecy during the Second Great Awakening led him to the conclusion that Daniel's "cleansing of the sanctuary" was cleansing of the world from sin when Christ would come, and he and many others prepared, but October 22, 1844 came, and they were disappointed.
These events paved the way for the Adventists who formed the Seventh-day Adventist Church. They contended that what had happened on October 22 was not Jesus' return, as Miller had thought, but the start of Jesus' final work of atonement, the cleansing in the heavenly sanctuary, leading up to the Second Coming.

Wikipedia: The Investigative Judgment is a unique Seventh-day Adventist doctrine, which asserts that the divine judgment of professed Christians has been in progress since 1844. It is intimately related to the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and was described by one of the church's pioneers Ellen G. White as one of the pillars of Adventist belief. It is a major component of the broader Adventist understanding of the "heavenly sanctuary", and the two are sometimes spoken of interchangeably

 

[Phoneman-777]

Fact is, you know well the (Investigative Judgement) followed the 1844 false prediction of the second coming

You are silent to this (Fact) why?

Of course it was a (Developed) doctrine to cover the 1844 false prediction

You call THIS "silence"?
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-or-second-coming.197588/page-3#post-4498838

As you can see, I already addressed it. Did you miss it are you deliberately misrepresenting the facts for your own purposes?

 

[Phoneman-777]

The Failed Prediction Of The Second Coming In 1844, Then Turned Into The Investigative Judgement, No Secret, A New Doctrine Developed In 1844, To Cover The False Prediction, Fact

Wikipedia: The Great Disappointment in the Millerite movement was the reaction that followed Baptist preacher William Miller's proclamations that Jesus Christ would return to the Earth by 1844, what he called the Advent. His study of the Daniel 8 prophecy during the Second Great Awakening led him to the conclusion that Daniel's "cleansing of the sanctuary" was cleansing of the world from sin when Christ would come, and he and many others prepared, but October 22, 1844 came, and they were disappointed.
These events paved the way for the Adventists who formed the Seventh-day Adventist Church. They contended that what had happened on October 22 was not Jesus' return, as Miller had thought, but the start of Jesus' final work of atonement, the cleansing in the heavenly sanctuary, leading up to the Second Coming.

Wikipedia: The Investigative Judgment is a unique Seventh-day Adventist doctrine, which asserts that the divine judgment of professed Christians has been in progress since 1844. It is intimately related to the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and was described by one of the church's pioneers Ellen G. White as one of the pillars of Adventist belief. It is a major component of the broader Adventist understanding of the "heavenly sanctuary", and the two are sometimes spoken of interchangeably

I didn't challenge you to post a Wiki hit piece on how the Investigative Judgment doctrine arose...anybody can do that.

I challenged you to refute Biblically the verses that establish the solid ground doctrine of the Investigative Judgment...and a real man of integrity would either step up or shut up. Here they are:
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-or-second-coming.197588/page-4#post-4499176

 

[Phoneman-777]

The books of the Prophets are coded. The book of Daniel was sealed, the book of Revelation was sealed as well. Revelation is a book that has revelations that seemingly are unveieled yet they are written in Prophetic language. Thus as was written, both Daniel the Great Prophet, and John the Beloved, sealed the writings by coding what they were saying.

The WORD of GOD is Spiritual, and Life giving. There are 7 Angels of the 7 Churches. And those Angels were coded when speaking of the Great Men of GOD sent to lead the entire population of the children of the kingdom in the earth at that time. They were called Angels, becasue they were the ONLY ones that could hear from GOD. and did hear from GOD directly at that time. Thus, they are as follows"

Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Apostle Peter, The Son of Man.

Each of these Angels of the Churches, had a message that they were sent to deliver to the people.

Enoch preached the Gospel of transgfiguration - and he transfigured in life without ever dying at all.
Noah preached the Gospel of the washings of regeneration, and he coupled an ARK that saved Mankind from extinction from the flood.
Abraham preached the Gospel of circumscision
Moses preached the Gospel of Atonement - And he brought the Law. Moses is the Law, a witness that testifies of GOD.
Joshua preached the Gospel of Revelation, and by revelation he brought down the walls of Jericho.
Apostle Peter preached the Gospel of the remission of sin.
The Son of Man preached the Gospel of immoratlity + incorruptibility.

These are the 7 Angels of the 7 Churches written of in Rev 1-3....

Each of these Angels of the Churches that has his message is also what was called "A Trumpet" . When Enoch was in the earth, and he was preaching his message, he was sounding a trumpet. Same with Noah, it was a trumpet, and the rest of them as well. Their messages are referred to as trumpets. The reason is because their messages reaps the children of the kingdom from the tares. That every child of the kingdom in the earth at that time, must hearken to him, and be led by him, to run their race. And here is a proof that Noah is the second Angel of the Church, one plain enough to see that wasn't really coded.

Rev 16
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

The 7th Angel of the 7 churches is the Son of Man that is to come, who Jesus His Pre-Eminence called "The Spirit of Truth', The comforter; and he was called the restituioner of all things, he was called the good samaritan, the stone hewn without hands, he was called the finisher, the one who got the job done, he was called Elijah by Malachi, he was called the Prophet by Apostle Peter, And He was called "another voice from heaven" in Revelation 18:4, because the message he has for the children of the kingdom is different to what every other preacher is saying in the earth Proving he is an Elijah- Just as Elijah of Tishbe was preaching a different message to the people than the prophets of baal, and Elijah John the Baptist preached a different message from the pharisees. And his message shall reap the children of life, and bundle the tares as chaff to be cast into the lake of fire - that is to say, reveal who the wheat and tares are. And his message will put on the wedding garment, preparing the bride for her wedding, for the second coming of Jesus His Pre-Eminence to receive, and she shall be an immortal bride, that conquered death, and proved she loved GOD.

And all the children of the kingdom that did not hearken to his message, that did not put on the wedding garment in life alive and therefore were told to leave the wedding, that did not conquer death in life by immortalisation in life, by bringing down the walls of mortality; bringing down the building blocks of mortality adumbrated in Joshua bringing down the walls of Jericho, all the children of the kingdom that do not complete their race, shall be cut off from among the people- which means they will die in this earth, and go to Abrahams Bosom where they will be resurrected at the second resurrection, and therefore shall not eat from the tree of life but shall inherit the New Salem. While those that immortalised in life shall gain entrance into Eden, the heavens world for Mankind.

THIS IS A TRUMPET
COME OUT OF HER

I prefer to stick to the clear signposts along the road of Daniel's prophetic timeline which is paved upon a foundation of Hebrew Chiasm, rather than trailblaze to obscure Bible "codes" that are claimed to hold the key to understanding eschatology.

The Babylonian Lion was followed by the Medo-Persian Bear, the Greek Leopard, the Roman dragon-like beast, the Barbarian Ten Horns which divided Rome, and finally the Little Horn Papacy which arose among the Ten Horns and went on to fulfill every single eschatological identifying mark of the Antichrist...

...which means there is no "gap" in Daniel's 70 Weeks pointing us to a future Antichrist, and also means the chapters of Revelation did not stop unfolding at chapter 4, and also means we must go back to 70 Weeks prophecy to discover they were cut off from the 2,300 Days and that they both commenced at the same time with the 70th week expiring in 34 A.D., while the 2,300 expired in 1844 A.D. when Daniel said "the Sanctuary shall be cleansed"...

...at which time our High Priest Jesus would move from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place and begin the final phase of His Heavenly Sanctuary Ministry which was called the "cleansing of the Sanctuary" aka "time of Judgment" - just as the earthly high priest would do in the earthly sanctuary. Therefore, the prophecies of Revelation which are given when Jesus is seen in the Holy Place begin to unfold before 1844, including the trumpets, while the prophecies given when He is in the Most Holy Place unfold after.

Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism belongs in the trashpile of what Luther called "the Roman dunghill of decretals", not among a serious eschatological study of the Scriptures by what are supposed to be Protestants who should be opposing such flawed ideas, not embracing and defending them

 

[Yahcubs777]

I prefer to stick to the clear signposts along the road of Daniel's prophetic timeline which is paved upon a foundation of Hebrew Chiasm, rather than trailblaze to obscure Bible "codes" that are claimed to hold the key to understanding eschatology.

The Babylonian Lion was followed by the Medo-Persian Bear, the Greek Leopard, the Roman dragon-like beast, the Barbarian Ten Horns which divided Rome, and finally the Little Horn Papacy which arose among the Ten Horns and went on to fulfill every single eschatological identifying mark of the Antichrist...

...which means there is no "gap" in Daniel's 70 Weeks pointing us to a future Antichrist, and also means the chapters of Revelation did not stop unfolding at chapter 4, and also means we must go back to 70 Weeks prophecy to discover they were cut off from the 2,300 Days and that they both commenced at the same time with the 70th week expiring in 34 A.D., while the 2,300 expired in 1844 A.D. when Daniel said "the Sanctuary shall be cleansed"...

...at which time our High Priest Jesus would move from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place and begin the final phase of His Heavenly Sanctuary Ministry which was called the "cleansing of the Sanctuary" aka "time of Judgment" - just as the earthly high priest would do in the earthly sanctuary. Therefore, the prophecies of Revelation which are given when Jesus is seen in the Holy Place begin to unfold before 1844, including the trumpets, while the prophecies given when He is in the Most Holy Place unfold after.

Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism belongs in the trashpile of what Luther called "the Roman dunghill of decretals", not among a serious eschatological study of the Scriptures by what are supposed to be Protestants who should be opposing such flawed ideas, not embracing and defending them

Tell me, what is the beast? After you answer, i will show you how its sealed.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Tell me, what is the beast? After you answer, i will show you how its sealed.

According to Daniel 7:17,23 a beast is a kingdom, not a man.

 

[Yahcubs777]

According to Daniel 7:17,23 a beast is a kingdom, not a man.

Who are the 7 heads of the beast. Sorry i should have been more specific.

 

[ewq1938]

Who are the 7 heads of the beast. Sorry i should have been more specific.

The heads are mountains not people, Revelation 17. It is the horns on those heads that are people, ten kings.

The 7 heads/mountains are not the rulers. The horns are the rulers and the heads are WHERE they rule. This is just like the type/shadow of Pagan Rome where Caesar (type of the Antichrist) ruled over ten states with their rulers (types of the ten horns) and these ten states (kingdoms) were LOCATED on 7 hills (the 7 heads/mountains).


Obviously the 7 hills weren't an additional 7 leaders anymore than they are in Rev 13, 17.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Who are the 7 heads of the beast. Sorry i should have been more specific.

No worries. I have to preface my list with a statement that we can't say for certain what the 7 heads are because there isn't a definitive explanation in the Bible, but since the Daniel timeline of prophecy gives us the overall picture - 6th century Babylon to the end times Papal "Mystery Babylon" Antichrist - we can make some valid assumptions.

Using Daniel as a template, start with Babylon and count from time of the events portrayed in Revelation 17:

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen....": 1. Babylon 2. Medo-Persia 3. Greece 4. Rome 5. Papacy (religio/political powers)

"...one is...": 6. Seemingly wounded papacy ("...one it not, yet is...") -- non-religio-political powers run by secret papal societies arising out of the bottomless pit of Revelation 11.

"...not yet come...": 7. Image of the Beast (religio-political confederacy under the Lamb-like Beast

"...the eighth (is of the seven): 8. NWO - final world confederacy under the Papacy.

​

 

[Yahcubs777]

The heads are mountains not people, Revelation 17. It is the horns on those heads that are people, ten kings.

The 7 heads/mountains are not the rulers. The horns are the rulers and the heads are WHERE they rule. This is just like the type/shadow of Pagan Rome where Caesar (type of the Antichrist) ruled over ten states with their rulers (types of the ten horns) and these ten states (kingdoms) were LOCATED on 7 hills (the 7 heads/mountains).


Obviously the 7 hills weren't an additional 7 leaders anymore than they are in Rev 13, 17.

No they aren't. See, you literalised it based on your assumptions of here. The writings in the book of Revelation were sealed. They written in esoteric language, that doesn't mean just symbols, but Spiritual language. They are not the hills, or ceaser, or any such thing. The 7 heads of the beast are lucifer and 5 cherubim and one seraph. They are celestial beings. They are not men with mortal body.

we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world.

The ten horns speaks to their anatomy, the antomy of the Cherubim which each have two horns. That "old Serpent" from the Garden of Eden is the Seraph. Just like when Arch Angel Gabriel was trying to get to Daniel, but the prince of persia would not let him get there, that prince of persia is a cherub. That Prince of Persia became the Prince of Grecia, and Prince of Rome.

The 7 heads of the beast are:
Lucifer
beelzebub
Bhudah
Rah
Shiva
Khalia
Bomi

These 6 were each given a portion of rulership by Lucifer.

In matt 4: Lucifer not knowing who he was speaking to said:

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Even Matt 4 needed to be interpreted from the Spirit Point. The wilderness place that they wrote that the Spirit of GOD led Jesus His Pre-Eminence to (which even that is a blasphemy against the character of the Most Holy GOD), is not in this earth. It is the place that lucifer and cohorts pitched their tent when they left their habitable heaven, their tower, their place of residence. That place is not in heaven or earth, it is towards the lake of fire, it is western, heaven is eastern. That is why you read that the eastern winds parted the red sea, and brought manna and quails and so on.

The Writings of the Prophets are written in Prophetic Language, even that 2300 was not pointing to days in this earth, but it was pointing to being called at the 11th hour: 23:00 hours. And this was also revealed in the rib missing from the body of Adam. That 12 ribs which are paired is 24. This is very deep so i won't go too far into this for now.

The book of Revelation was sealed, so that no Preacher would be able to dive into that. Why? Because its only the 7th Angel of the church that will interpret that perfectly. That is why John the Beloved as the Prophet was told to eat the book to show that the mysteries of the apokalupsis will only be revealed, unvieiled by that Prophet. And he will also judge and bring down babylon.

In Revelation it speaks of the Mother harlot, riding the back of the beast. And it was revealed: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Why Mystery? There are verses that say: We are not ignorant of the devices of Satan. Then why was babylon the great called a mystery? The beasts kingdoms are in different levels of the air. Each of the heads were given a portion of the earth to rule over, different heights of rulership also. Lucifer is the king of babylon, and that role was played by Nebuchadnezzar. Babylon is not just a kingdom, it is a system of the strategies and devices of satan, changing with time but still the same system.

Babylon didn't start at the kingdom you know called Babylon. Nimrod Cush also set up 4 kingdoms then tried to build a tower that reached GOD. Nimrod was a wizard who married his birth mother. Why? Because they had teachings of someone that would be born that would crush them. Just like there is Babylon, Medes Persia, Grecia and Rome. Rome is the one of the 4 Jesus His Pre-Eminence met. And they crucified HIM!

Babylon has been since the fall of Man. That Babylon is also those that scanned out Eden, found that there were only 2 people in that heavens world, and that they were superior to them and their heavens world superior to theirs. So they devised a plan, a blueprint to bring down man. Just as Caucasians in the earth today explored, found lands, found the people in that land, killed those people and claimed the land for themselves.

 

[ewq1938]

No they aren't.

This entire post is unbiblical nonsense.

 

[Yahcubs777]

This entire post is unbiblical nonsense.

This is the kind of message that proves who the wheat and tares are. For tares cannot understand spiritual things. Thats why they were attracted to faith, not knowing that faith is Revelations, not just believing that something is true.

 

[Phoneman-777]

...like when Arch Angel Gabriel

I don't think the Bible identifies Gabriel as Archangel..that title belongs to Michael. "Archangel" means "Ruler of the angels".

And since "Michael" means "He Who is like God", it was once a commonly accepted Biblical teaching that Jesus, the One "Who is as God" is the "Ruler of the angels" -- Jesus, Who is Almighty God in the highest sense, took the name "Michael" when He manifested Himself as an angel, just as He took the name "Jesus" when He manifested Himself as man. Again, this was once a commonly accepted Biblical teaching by many commentators, churches, scholars, etc., which many saw fully supported in Scripture.

It wasn't until the late 19th century when the Jehovah's Witnesses started twisting this doctrine to "prove" that Jesus was not Almighty God, but nothing more than an ordinary angel, a created being, and is why their emphasis is on "Jehovah Father" (Jesus is actually the Jehovah of the OT) that many churches began to distance themselves from the once popular teaching, and now today anyone who attempts to remind the modern church that it was once a commonly accept Biblical teaching that Michael the Archangel is Jesus, they are ridiculed, which is OK. If ecclesiastical history has taught us anything, it's that the crowd has never been right.