Preterism, Futurism, Historicism 3 Schools of Interpretation

[GaryA]

John 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This verse is referring to the time of the second resurrection at the final Judgment.

I meant to say "These verses are" - both of the two verses together are referring to the second resurrection time frame.

~

Pay close attention to these phrases:

"for the hour is coming" - the following description occurs at a particular future (to John) moment in time

"in the which" - all that is indicated in the following description occurs at that particular moment in time

"all that are in the graves" - any-and-all/everyone in a grave at that particular moment in time

"shall hear his voice" - there will not be any (in a grave) who do not hear his voice

"And shall come forth" - all will come forth; none will remain in a grave

These verses are describing a singular event - the second resurrection - and coincide with the events of this passage:

Revelation 20:

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[GaryA]

Does Revelation 20:15 not indicate that there will be some who will not be cast into the lake of fire?

Do not confuse 'resurrection' with 'judgment' - each has its purpose in the grand scheme of things.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Oh, if that is all RV says, then no problem, but I think it says a lot more than that.
Does everyone agree that the RV has finally been explained?

I don't understand what you want then. You requested explaining Revelation in relation to 2 passages, which I did. What more do you want?

 

[GaryA]

Does everyone agree that the RV has finally been explained?

Does anyone agree with me that there is a reasonable limit to abbreviating Bible book names - beyond which - it only invites unnecessary confusion?



Why are people so lazy?

It is extremely rare that I even abbreviate a Bible book name at all - I spell them out for the good/sake of the reader - because - I am not lazy - and, I care...

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I meant to say "These verses are" - both of the two verses together are referring to the second resurrection time frame.

~

Pay close attention to these phrases:

"for the hour is coming" - the following description occurs at a particular future (to John) moment in time

"in the which" - all that is indicated in the following description occurs at that particular moment in time

"all that are in the graves" - any-and-all/everyone in a grave at that particular moment in time

"shall hear his voice" - there will not be any (in a grave) who do not hear his voice

"And shall come forth" - all will come forth; none will remain in a grave

These verses are describing a singular event - the second resurrection - and coincide with the events of this passage:

Revelation 20:

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

A second resurrection would make no sense without a first resurrection. One for life the other death as the scripture indicates separated by the 1000 years. It makes sense Christ is going to want to spend time with the saints so they understand why their loved ones didn’t make it.

 

[GaryA]

It is extremely rare that I even abbreviate a Bible book name at all - I spell them out for the good/sake of the reader - because - I am not lazy - and, I care...

Not only that - but - I always try to post Bible verses/passages in a "separated nice-and-neat special unique format" - out of respect for those words.

It also makes for a much more pleasant experience for the reader.

I almost "cringe" when I see people on here smashing Bible verses together with their own words in a post. I figure they do not have any respect for those words...

Those words are special above all words - we should all treat them as such!

 

[GWH]

I don't understand what you want then. You requested explaining Revelation in relation to 2 passages, which I did. What more do you want?

I am quite satisfied with 7 trumpets instead of only one as being the main thing to jibe!
I was just wondering how many others on this thread are content with that interpretation :^)

 

[TMS]

In Revelation 20 - if there are no mortal souls living during the Millennium - if there are only the resurrected immortal - who-or-what will those who will reign with Christ reign over?

what did God reign over before sin came to be.....? Sin does not need to exist to reign with Jesus.
A false teaching of futurism is that Christ will reign on Earth for the Millennium. He will reign in the Heavenly Jerusalem.

Gal_4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Heb_12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev_21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Notice that the heavenly Jerusalen comes down out of heaven.....
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 

[TMS]

If there are only the resurrected immortal in the Millennium, who will Satan deceive and gather together to do battle - whom the Lord will destroy?

The second resurrection... the resurrection of damnation. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

We are told that all will be raised,,, some to the resurrection of damnation and some to the resurrection of life.

2 Peter 2:9, “The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.”

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28, 29).

 

[TMS]

No - there will not - however, there will be both saved and lost mortal people - who are physically born, live, and die - during the Millennium.

please provide a bible verse....

When Jesus comes in all His glory who can look on Him and live? At the second coming of Jesus all will die that are not saved.

We are told in Matthew 25:31 that “all the holy angels” will be in attendance when He comes. According to John the Revelator there are many times more than a hundred million angels in heaven and all of them will be with Him as He returns. “And the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands” (Revelation 5:11).

The earth will be illuminated from one horizon to the other.
“And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. … And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found” (Revelation 16:18–20).

“And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?” (Revelation 6:14–17).

“And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints” (2 Thessalonians 1:7–10).

At the very same time that the righteous are glorified, the rejecters of His grace will be slain by the brightness of His presence.

 

[Melach]

i believe that we should view the book of revelation as something that had historical fulfillment, but it doesnt mean we cant grasp something from it today.

for example, the beast in their day was rome, but today if you live in north korea its not wrong to call that system 'the beast' because it really is exactly like nebuchadnezzer ruling in there. complete tyranny you gotta bow down to the kim jong regime and his statues and presence. it may not be the exact biblical one, but it is a beast system regardless.

my 2cents on revelation 17&18 is that its about the symbiosis between jerusalem the harlot and the beast, who then burned the harlot.

 

[Melach]

I believe that the "Judgment Seat of Christ" and the "Great White Throne Judgment" are one-and-the-same. So, I believe that all souls will be judged at that time - you, me, and everyone else...

I see nothing in scripture that justifies believing/thinking that there is a separate judgment just for first resurrection Saints.

who do you believe is/was mystery babylon? who is/was the beast?

 

[Melach]

Oh, if that is all RV says, then no problem, but I think it says a lot more than that.
Does everyone agree that the RV has finally been explained?

what is "RV"?

 

[GWH]

what is "RV"?

Revelation :^)

 

[rrcn]

i believe that we should view the book of revelation as something that had historical fulfillment, but it doesnt mean we cant grasp something from it today.

for example, the beast in their day was rome, but today if you live in north korea its not wrong to call that system 'the beast' because it really is exactly like nebuchadnezzer ruling in there. complete tyranny you gotta bow down to the kim jong regime and his statues and presence. it may not be the exact biblical one, but it is a beast system regardless.

my 2cents on revelation 17&18 is that its about the symbiosis between jerusalem the harlot and the beast, who then burned the harlot.

That’s atheism, idolatry in one of its many forms.

 

[GaryA]

Does anyone agree with me that there is a reasonable limit to abbreviating Bible book names - beyond which - it only invites unnecessary confusion

what is "RV"?

Revelation :^)

HAHAHAHA - case-in-point...?

 

[SomeDisciple]

please provide a bible verse....

So, who are these people (who are apparently not in the millenium) who will be considered accursed if they die before 100 years old? No children dying, etc?

 

[Whomsoever]

Not necessarily...

It could - it might - however, that is not the only time that it could happen.

You are making an unwarranted assumption - as if, in all of human history, the four winds "strove" only once - why do you not think this could have happened many times?

I do not believe there is enough information in what you are suggesting to clearly justify the one-to-one association you are proposing.

Would this help?

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

 

[TMS]

i believe that we should view the book of revelation as something that had historical fulfillment, but it doesnt mean we cant grasp something from it today.

Historicism doesn't mean everything is history... that's what preterism teaches...

Historicism looks at the history of events and the prophecies and connects the two together... for example Dan 2 ... when you study history the world empires are clear.
And you can apply the symbols of the prophecies to these empires knowing it is correct. But some prophecies go beyond the present day so by using the historical platform you can accurately predict the meaning of the future symbols.

The stone that comes down out and smashes the image must be the second coming of Jesus. Only one event will completely destroy all empires,

Let me see if I can look up a better way to describe it... but Historicism isn't only looking at history.

 

[Omegatime]

please provide a bible verse....

When Jesus comes in all His glory who can look on Him and live? At the second coming of Jesus all will die that are not saved.

We are told in Matthew 25:31 that “all the holy angels” will be in attendance when He comes. According to John the Revelator there are many times more than a hundred million angels in heaven and all of them will be with Him as He returns. “And the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands” (Revelation 5:11).

The earth will be illuminated from one horizon to the other.
“And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. … And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found” (Revelation 16:18–20).

“And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?” (Revelation 6:14–17).

“And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints” (2 Thessalonians 1:7–10).

At the very same time that the righteous are glorified, the rejecters of His grace will be slain by the brightness of His presence.

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Zech 14

16 Then every one that survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of booths

Speaking of the unrighteous