question: Can an unsaved person be baptized in the Holy Spirit?
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the emblem top left of the video:
goes to this website.
Fundi, is getting this material off the Mormon Sitel
Church of Jesus Christ
Are Mormons same as Latter Day?
They are the Mormons who did not go west and settle in Utah, and they are quite different theologically.” So, logically, all followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are technically Mormons. But not all Mormons are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
goes to this website.
Fundi, is getting this material off the Mormon Sitel
Church of Jesus Christ
Are Mormons same as Latter Day?
They are the Mormons who did not go west and settle in Utah, and they are quite different theologically.” So, logically, all followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are technically Mormons. But not all Mormons are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
John 20:22 is the record of the Holy Spirit IN Christians, while Acts 2:4 is the record of the Holy Spirit ON Christians (the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" so called).
Jesus told the disciples that: you know the Holy Spirit, because He's been WITH you, but He shall be IN YOU (which is what makes a person a "Born Again Christian").
In the OLD TESTAMENT, selected people, who were NOT "Born Again" (since nobody was back then) had the Holy Spirit ON them. Elijah, Elisha, Abraham, Samson, etc. did what they did because the Holy Spirit was ON them, but not IN them.
Jesus told the disciples that: you know the Holy Spirit, because He's been WITH you, but He shall be IN YOU (which is what makes a person a "Born Again Christian").
In the OLD TESTAMENT, selected people, who were NOT "Born Again" (since nobody was back then) had the Holy Spirit ON them. Elijah, Elisha, Abraham, Samson, etc. did what they did because the Holy Spirit was ON them, but not IN them.
the emblem top left of the video:
goes to this website.
Fundi, is getting this material off the Mormon Sitel
Church of Jesus Christ
Are Mormons same as Latter Day?
They are the Mormons who did not go west and settle in Utah, and they are quite different theologically.” So, logically, all followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are technically Mormons. But not all Mormons are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
goes to this website.
Fundi, is getting this material off the Mormon Sitel
Church of Jesus Christ
Are Mormons same as Latter Day?
They are the Mormons who did not go west and settle in Utah, and they are quite different theologically.” So, logically, all followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are technically Mormons. But not all Mormons are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
I am not sure what you mean when you say that he was excluded from pursuing salvation because he was not Jewish. Excluded by who? God or man? Certainly not by God because many, many Gentiles had long before been saved through faith in Christ.
I agree with you, but I did not go further simply because I am trying to maintain a dialogue with you, and not seeking to write a book. To that point, I am sincerely enjoying our civil dialogue on this matter, so thank you for your participation in it.
I would have to strongly disagree with you where water baptism is concerned.
Hebrews 6:1-2
"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."
The principles of the doctrine of Christ include the doctrine of baptisms, plural, and I believe, with precedence from both the Old Testament and the New Testament, that these baptisms include both water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism. In other words, it is not a matter of either/or.
In his first epistle, Peter said:
1 Peter 3:18-22
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."
Peter said that water baptism is the answer of a good conscience towards God, and it is directly related to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is gone into heaven, and is one the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject to him. I could write a very long dissertation on this topic, but, for now, I will simply say the following. During his incarnation, the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us. Prior to that, the Word, or Jesus, was only God. In and after his incarnation, Jesus became both God and man, and this is very important. During his incarnation, Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. After his crucifixion, burial, and resurrection from the dead, Jesus ascended back to the Father's right hand in heaven as one who is both God and man. The man part is very important because he was made heir of all things in his humanity, and that is how we, as humans ourselves, can be made to be joint-heirs with Christ. If we have this understanding, or if we understand that angels, and authorities, and powers were made subject unto Christ in his ascension back to the Father's right hand as a man, then the answer of a good conscience is to be water baptized because this signifies our own burial, resurrection, and ascension to be seated in heavenly places in Christ. On the other hand, a refusal to be water baptized with this understanding is the answer of a bad conscience towards God.
I have long agreed with what you said here. Again, I just wanted to show in my initial response that Peter had a problem in this area. In other words, I was not seeking to write some sort of exhaustive essay on the matter.
I agree with you, but I did not go further simply because I am trying to maintain a dialogue with you, and not seeking to write a book. To that point, I am sincerely enjoying our civil dialogue on this matter, so thank you for your participation in it.
I would have to strongly disagree with you where water baptism is concerned.
Hebrews 6:1-2
"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."
The principles of the doctrine of Christ include the doctrine of baptisms, plural, and I believe, with precedence from both the Old Testament and the New Testament, that these baptisms include both water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism. In other words, it is not a matter of either/or.
In his first epistle, Peter said:
1 Peter 3:18-22
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."
Peter said that water baptism is the answer of a good conscience towards God, and it is directly related to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is gone into heaven, and is one the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject to him. I could write a very long dissertation on this topic, but, for now, I will simply say the following. During his incarnation, the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us. Prior to that, the Word, or Jesus, was only God. In and after his incarnation, Jesus became both God and man, and this is very important. During his incarnation, Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. After his crucifixion, burial, and resurrection from the dead, Jesus ascended back to the Father's right hand in heaven as one who is both God and man. The man part is very important because he was made heir of all things in his humanity, and that is how we, as humans ourselves, can be made to be joint-heirs with Christ. If we have this understanding, or if we understand that angels, and authorities, and powers were made subject unto Christ in his ascension back to the Father's right hand as a man, then the answer of a good conscience is to be water baptized because this signifies our own burial, resurrection, and ascension to be seated in heavenly places in Christ. On the other hand, a refusal to be water baptized with this understanding is the answer of a bad conscience towards God.
I have long agreed with what you said here. Again, I just wanted to show in my initial response that Peter had a problem in this area. In other words, I was not seeking to write some sort of exhaustive essay on the matter.
Thank you for responding. I was contemplating John 20:21-23 this morning so your response was timely from my perspective. Do you have any insight into where the "record of Holy Spirit in Christians" is recorded in Matthew, Mark, and Luke/Acts?
Also did Thomas miss out then on receiving the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit because he was absent, verse 24 (during Jesus next encounter with the disciples, verses 26-29, Thomas was present but the Scripture does not indicate that Jesus breathed on him)?
Also did Thomas miss out then on receiving the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit because he was absent, verse 24 (during Jesus next encounter with the disciples, verses 26-29, Thomas was present but the Scripture does not indicate that Jesus breathed on him)?
I have another question on your statement regarding OT believers/not born again. In His conversation with Nicodemas Jesus begin by stating no one can see the Kingdom of God unless they are born again. In John 8:56 Jesus states, "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day, he saw it and was glad." So was Abraham "born again"? Or is "seeing my day" not the same as "seeing the Kingdom of God"?
Abraham is called an ot saint or a righteous dead who rested in a place of comfort for the dead called Abraham's bussom. because
They would have seen the lord after his resurrection, where Jesus went to set them free. Whilst all ot saints where righteous none where born again until after the resurrection of Christ, all tho whilst many where alive in the ot they where temporarily filled by the holy spirit and moved by the holy spirit as they spoke
They would have seen the lord after his resurrection, where Jesus went to set them free. Whilst all ot saints where righteous none where born again until after the resurrection of Christ, all tho whilst many where alive in the ot they where temporarily filled by the holy spirit and moved by the holy spirit as they spoke
