Questions about Psychology

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I know that some people enter this world bruised and broken and others become that way either mentally or physically. I also know that the Lord has placed his hand on those with the knowledge to help.
But the Lord himself is the great physician and our need for him and his word should never tire. Never let the things of this world shake your faith for it is all temporal.
Trust in the Lord with all of your heart lean not on your own understanding, he will direct your path.
 
I have been contemplating psychology and the existence of spiritual things (God, Jesus, Satan, guilt, temptation, etc.). It seems these two work against each other, such as bad thoughts coming from Satan can also be described as a chemical imbalance. Psychology can be used to explain pretty much everything that happens to us mentally. Satan tempting us through thoughts can be explained as intrusive thoughts.

A question I have been asking myself to help me understand yet I cannot wrap my head around it is why wouldn't God work through psychology? Is our mind designed to work in a way that allows us to experience spiritual things?

I am unable to establish any conclusions in this matter. I feel my belief in God and my need for Him being shaken. A lot of people come to know Christ when they are at the end of their rope, or when in psychological distress. Is it ok for people to hit rock bottom so they call on God for help? If people are psychologically healthy do they even have a need for God?

If psychology is practiced without God than I'd imagine it can leave someone with a sense of self righteousness as opposed to God's righteousness. Which would be the reason you're feeling confused about the two because they are in fact different.

But it sounds like your faith is being shaken due to the fact you're "psychologically healthy" and at peace, to the point you're asking the question if the "psychologically healthy" even need God. If there's any point since you're at such peace as it is. And my answer would be that when you're self righteous...you can be deceived into thinking there is no need for God. Because when you're self-righteous YOU are your God. You are the author of all that is good in life. Which is not the case.

What I've come to understand through prayer and worship is that virtue itself is the thumb print of the Holy Spirit. The self-righteous man or women or the "psychologically healthy" who think they're responsible for their own virtue, who think they don't need God because they're "psychologically healthy" and because they would never steal or kill or whatever, are completely oblivious to the fact that for every single self righteous person who won't do bad, there are plenty more persons' who will eat them alive. Who will exploit them for the sake of any form of self gain and that this type of behavior/doctrine is exactly what can shape the world for the worst. God's word specifically goes into detail on what makes the the righteous through God and what makes wicked what they are, which is the worship of their flesh through acted out desires etc etc.

Now this is where the polarity of good and evil, for one: can't be denied and second: should be examined. The self righteous and "psychologically healthy" who don't need God, are oblivious to the authors of good and evil. They think good and evil come from man himself. So that means they have to put their faith in man to do the right thing. Which leaves them vulnerable. Vulnerable to what? A wicked man can put on a front as a righteous man in his plot to exploit his brother, which would be the act of deception. But a righteous man, who understands The Word of God, should be able to see what that wicked man is about just based off his chosen affiliations with the world, which God's word exposes as a source of evil. You can't worship God and the world. (Mathew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.)(1John 2:15-16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.) And again, when the doctrine of deception is put above all, how would a self righteous/"psychologically healthy" godless man even know? If he's godless he has no idea what the truth is. He can end up being deceived to believe just about anything.

So my point is this- We have the "psychologically healthy" or "the self righteous" who for the sake of this discussion DO NOT need God- and we have them not understanding who the author of their inner virtue is, which is God and his Holy Spirit. We have them unable to come to grips with the reality that 'they are NOT the author of their own virtue,' that virtue is a trait, a gift, a blessing, a truth that derives from Good, which is within the polarity of good and evil, which we examined above, and that the author of that Good is in fact God and his Holy Spirit.

So yeah, the "psychologically healthy"/self righteous man who for the sake of this discussion does not need God, who find no fault in themselves are quick to dismiss the idea of a God because they think they are the source to which alllllll that is Good. So from that you can understand why God has some people "hit rock bottom" as you put it. It forces them to succumb and submit to seek God instead of themselves, if they're wise that is. But some who are too self-righteous, who are too focused on themselves, in the time of tribulation will become a coward and only look after themselves. Which is why The Bible doesn't have anything good to say about those kinds of cowards. (2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.) ...sorry, going off on a tangent. But cowards will be put into the lake of fire with the murderers etc etc. (Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.)


Also this my testimony to the mercy of God, I could be wrong but this is just what I've seen in worship and prayer and that is The Holy Spirit's influence is given to everyone, even non believers. It's influence is soo merciful and motivated by unconditional love that it will leave it's mark on any heart. That's how truly merciful God is. The tragedy comes when man doesn't address it's author, which is God and Jesus Christ. And when man doesn't address the author of virtue, that's a denying of the Holy Spirit to some degree. But without the Holy Spirit's influence, even in the non believer....I think the world would be completely mad.

Also I haven't addressed sin or the importance of Jesus Christ throughout this entire post. But I think we can all testify that sin degrades even the "psychologically healthy." Inside and out. It's wage truly is death.
 
I have been in the VA system and they tried to diagnose me with PTSD and the dope... was not a believer att. but even then I knew it was not right...took the pills for a couple days and then stopped

Man, that sucks Mitspa. :( I was diagnosed with PTSD too 'cuz of seriously traumatic abuse. I can't take meds because I'm allergic to 99% of drugs. They make me feel like I'm trippin' on shrooms. :p

The psychologists who were the most help to me were the ones who helped me stop being in denial and to face facts. God Himself healed me for certain and He used those therapists to help me to move forward. That's the truth.

Hey beloved brother, how was your birthday, by the way? How'd you celebrate it? I hope you got cake & ice cream. :)

pet-birthday1.gif
 
I don't have a problem with mixing a little "Albert Ellis" R.E.B.T. as long as I can back it up with scripture

Kefa54
 
Lol This thread tho..I'm fascinated to say the least.

I've never even thought this much about the efforts and doings of a psychologist as much as I am right now. And when I would think of them I always thought it was strange they charged you by the hour, I mean how can you trust that you wont just be dancing in circles to stay on the clock? There's no financial profit in getting to the root of the issue as fast as possible in their field of work. So I mean I was skeptical about that form of help. But that's undermining the intentions of the individual though. But regardless, it helps some to talk it out and I totally get that. But once you found Christ, I don't see how chopping it up with anyone can be a problem, especially if the intentions are good.

But I always thought looking at religions/philosophies was the answer though, because that's base frame work right there. That's what philosophy is. Throughout my studies in life, every stumbling block I've ever come across has been described through the various religions and philosophies I've looked into as exactly that, stumbling blocks. They sprout like a weed from somewhere and take form in my perspective to make me believe something that may, or may not be true and then I offer a response that may or may not be helpful to myself. Never could figure out why this happens though. Why is this? And what's the nature and point of it? The search for WHY was like pulling out a clowns handkerchief....it just keeps going, and going, and going, and going etc etc.

Than one day I heard this scripture on a television series of all places-
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

The moment I heard that scripture it was a wrap! Cut the check! Kisssss myyyyy nikesssssss! Game over...well kinda. But it just dawned on me when I heard that scripture. That feeling of a fantastic epiphany that makes you ask yourself "howww did I miss this?????" It never even occurred to me that there was anything malicious out there that has some sort of influence of it's own, who's sole purpose is to hinder our search for peace and understanding. I just never believed in that kind of stuff. The concept of having any "unseen" adversary that can hinder ones search for truth. Thank God almighty for revealing the truth though, otherwise I'd still be sweating it out and scratching my head.
 
That's what they do ..dope them up and give them some mumbo jumbo about how they will always be messed up in the head...its so silly and helps none of these folks

I am just going to say it plain and clear Mitspa.... On this subject you do not know what you are talking about.
 
Man, that sucks Mitspa. :( I was diagnosed with PTSD too 'cuz of seriously traumatic abuse. I can't take meds because I'm allergic to 99% of drugs. They make me feel like I'm trippin' on shrooms. :p

The psychologists who were the most help to me were the ones who helped me stop being in denial and to face facts. God Himself healed me for certain and He used those therapists to help me to move forward. That's the truth.

Hey beloved brother, how was your birthday, by the way? How'd you celebrate it? I hope you got cake & ice cream. :)

pet-birthday1.gif

I would never wear a hat like that :)
 
I don't have a problem with mixing a little "Albert Ellis" R.E.B.T. as long as I can back it up with scripture

Kefa54

YAY!!! You're back from your surgery!! Glad to see you, brother Kefa!! Thank You, Jesus!!!


I agree with your statement. Any counseling that doesn't contradict the grace of Jesus Christ, I can get down with it.

I just want to add, the psychologists, counselors and therapists I went to were basically free of charge. I found them through various organizations that offered free crisis counseling. You can Google a ton of them online. They're everywhere around the world. You just have to weed through some of them to find the ones who work best for you.
 
I have been contemplating psychology and the existence of spiritual things (God, Jesus, Satan, guilt, temptation, etc.). It seems these two work against each other, such as bad thoughts coming from Satan can also be described as a chemical imbalance. Psychology can be used to explain pretty much everything that happens to us mentally. Satan tempting us through thoughts can be explained as intrusive thoughts.

A question I have been asking myself to help me understand yet I cannot wrap my head around it is why wouldn't God work through psychology? Is our mind designed to work in a way that allows us to experience spiritual things?

I am unable to establish any conclusions in this matter. I feel my belief in God and my need for Him being shaken. A lot of people come to know Christ when they are at the end of their rope, or when in psychological distress. Is it ok for people to hit rock bottom so they call on God for help? If people are psychologically healthy do they even have a need for God?

The spiritual and psychology go hand in hand. Satan will often use new age psychological practices to penetrate the minds of people, even possess people. This is actually how most of your cases of demonic possession seem to occur.

I was very psychologically healthy when I converted to Christianity. While there are some people who find God through extremely difficult times in life, there are others who find him based on simple deduction that He must exist because of the evidence for Him as opposed to evidences against Him. To me, many things simply don't work without the existence of not only a god, but THE God of the Christian faith specifically.
 
I have been contemplating psychology and the existence of spiritual things (God, Jesus, Satan, guilt, temptation, etc.). It seems these two work against each other, such as bad thoughts coming from Satan can also be described as a chemical imbalance. Psychology can be used to explain pretty much everything that happens to us mentally. Satan tempting us through thoughts can be explained as intrusive thoughts.

A question I have been asking myself to help me understand yet I cannot wrap my head around it is why wouldn't God work through psychology? Is our mind designed to work in a way that allows us to experience spiritual things?

I am unable to establish any conclusions in this matter. I feel my belief in God and my need for Him being shaken. A lot of people come to know Christ when they are at the end of their rope, or when in psychological distress. Is it ok for people to hit rock bottom so they call on God for help? If people are psychologically healthy do they even have a need for God?

The field of Psychology is a field based on behavioral science, not spiritual science. Psychology is only interested in behavior that can be measured. Thus it is only a field of measuring outward recognized behavior.

Certain modern branches of it recognize phenomena I deem a spiritual matter, like pre-cognition. It can document the outward signs of pre-cognition, but it cannot explain exactly how and why it happens. And there's the dividing line.

Pre-cognition is very real to me, since I've seen evidence of it first hand (my mother's dreams of a future event). That is something personal that my family who experienced it cannot deny. It is evidence for us, but not for anyone else.

There's also a lot of cases of people experiencing a spiritual connection while being separated by long distances, especially involving a family emergency like a death in the family (which I experienced once in my with my grandmother's death while I was overseas), or cases during a war death (I've heard some war veteran's witness of someone that said they knew they were going to die that day, and they did).

So I really don't see the field of Psychology upsetting any of the events of the spiritual part of our being that God created us with. Psychology simple cannot determine their real source or origin, but only mark their outward evidence.

It is the same with empirical science or materialist science. Their field only can work in the realm of the material and is not equipped to explain non-material events.

What this dividing line ultimately reveals, is the existence of the visible things of God's creation vs. the invisible things of God.
 
The spiritual and psychology go hand in hand. Satan will often use new age psychological practices to penetrate the minds of people, even possess people. This is actually how most of your cases of demonic possession seem to occur.

I was very psychologically healthy when I converted to Christianity. While there are some people who find God through extremely difficult times in life, there are others who find him based on simple deduction that He must exist because of the evidence for Him as opposed to evidences against Him. To me, many things simply don't work without the existence of not only a god, but THE God of the Christian faith specifically.

Some people can't make that deduction though and I think that's where the OP was coming from. For some they can actually make a case within that there is really no need for a God based solely on the fact their lives don't put them in a situation to call upon God or seek that deeper divine wisdom about life. Their lives are just that good to them. I remember being a non believer, talking with other non believers when I was younger about life and the concept of God, some thought of it as a possibility, some flat out just dismissed the idea of God completely without blinking an eye, and our discussions were coming from a place of self-righteousness. Most of us were "psychologically healthy", in the sense we had our heads screwed on right lol, the more "gloomy" people I came across were just flat out hateful if not expressed disgust at the idea of God or Jesus Christ. But the deduction process was always the motive of the discussions for the most part. As for the OP, it did sound like she just had a hiccup in her deduction.

But yeah, after reading through this thread, I think the clever and wise in God and Christ can plant seeds through discussion alone. Maybe even without mentioning God or Jesus, maybe that's exactly how it should be done with certain people. A subtle message that does nothing more than plant a seed for grace of the Holy Spirit in the future. But how the OP asked the question, I'm just reminded of all the self-righteous people I came across that had no idea who the author of their own virtue was. We all exalted ourselves for our good aspects. And I think that's were psychology comes up short. Why a lot of people "never leave their doctors' couch." Because they're being trained in an attempt to fix themselves. I don't doubt it can work in some cases, it's just not the end all be all perma-fix.
 
Well...I think Henry Cloud differs with many here who dismiss the value in good counseling and hard work by a person who sees one to help improve things about themselves. People who dislike counselors and counseling are likely afraid of seeing themselves as they really are and being held accountable for their behavior. IMO
 
Well...I think Henry Cloud differs with many here who dismiss the value in good counseling and hard work by a person who sees one to help improve things about themselves. People who dislike counselors and counseling are likely afraid of seeing themselves as they really are and being held accountable for their behavior. IMO
When are you going to start? :)