Did you notice I was stating who is responsible for our salvation, not giving a dissertation on how we work that salvation out?
Repentance and Keeping Commandments is only the beginning of salvation.
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Did you notice I was stating who is responsible for our salvation, not giving a dissertation on how we work that salvation out?
Did you notice WE are the ones who decide whether to walk with the Lord or reject Him?
God gave man free will so the ball is in man's court and man will decide his own fate.
The smart one's choose to abide in Christ.
And yet we are the ones who decide to embrace what the Lord did and be saved, or turn away from Him and burn
I think you are confusing receiving salvation and working one's salvation out. Salvation begins and ends with Christ. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Rom.1:16
We don't get a part salvation when we believe the Gospel, we get fully saved. We have been given everything that pertains to salvation in Christ. Whether that salvation becomes a visible reality in our life will depend on whether we are depending on the grace that works through faith in the power of the Spirit OR whether we are relying on our own understanding and working according to the desires of our flesh which, I should point out, doesn't necessarily always look "evil".
As far as I am concerned, it is the thinking displayed in the OP that prevents too many Christians realising just what they have from the moment they believe the Gospel and instead of resting in Christ and allowing Him to work His word of truth in us, they stress and strive to obtain what they already have.
Sow to the flesh and see what happens to you when you die.
You'll be going down, not up.
So you think Jesus' lied when He said this then???
Luke 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Another example of how people reject the plain reading of scripture as they refuse to submit themselves unto the leading of the Lord and follow His instructions. They clearly advocate for lawlessness.
The Lord said this thru Paul:
1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, where unto thou art also called
Not that the fake grace crowd cares what the Lord says.
They put their false teachers above the teaching of the Lord so these people are going to spend eternity in a place they were not expecting.
You'll be going down, not up.
So you think Jesus' lied when He said this then???
Luke 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Another example of how people reject the plain reading of scripture as they refuse to submit themselves unto the leading of the Lord and follow His instructions. They clearly advocate for lawlessness.
The Lord said this thru Paul:
1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, where unto thou art also called
Not that the fake grace crowd cares what the Lord says.
They put their false teachers above the teaching of the Lord so these people are going to spend eternity in a place they were not expecting.
Fine. You rely on yourself for your salvation. I hope you are a very, very, very good boy or else you may find yourself going down and not up.
Typical response from those who are not Spirit filled.
You failed to understand that the power I have to not sin is the Holy Spirit within
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Did you notice it's the power of the Holy Spirit we are to walk in and not do anything on our own?
That fake teachers are void of understanding because they don't have the Holy Spirit.
Typical of those who don't bother actually reading and thinking about what has been said.
Correct. It's impossible to add to Jesus' work on the cross, nor His resurrection from the dead. Once He was bodily dead, what else can men do that crucified Him? Much less anyone who lives after His bodily death.
Luk 12:4
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
Nor of course, can any person on earth add to His resurrection from the dead. Which God alone can do:
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
And so, repentance and confession cannot be adding to Jesus' sacrificial work and resurrection. Rather repenting for forgiveness of sin and confessing Him Lord, is from His sacrifice and with His resurrection, not adding to it.
In fact, such repentance and confession unto salvation is also given by God, and not a work of men alone:
Act 5:31
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts{11:18}
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
And though we must add good works to our faith with our salvation, for a sure election and entrance into Christ's eternal kingdom, once again that's not adding anything to Jesus' work of sacrifice on the cross and resurrection from the dead.
2 pet 1:4
And beside faith, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity...
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
As you say, such works of faith by repented confessing believers, is only a necessary part of our own salvation in this life, which can only be done after Jesus' work on the cross and rising from the grave.
Phl 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
And so, while we must repent and confess to be forgiven and saved by His work of sacrifice and resurrection, we do not do so to add to His work, that only He can do, but only to partake of His work in saving us from our sins:
Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
2 Peter 1:3
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Rev 20:5
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The issue here is you said "confession and repentance is only the beginning of salvation". Christ is the beginning and end of salvation. Our response to His work is not what saves us, it is His promise to do what He said that saves. You can change your mind and confess till the cows come home and it will not do you an ounce of good because the power of salvation is not in you, it is in Christ. If you have not believed the Gospel and the word does not abide in you, you are utterly powerless.
Stop making salvation about what you do and believe Christ and what He does. Only as we believe will repentance and confession be possible.
Hebrews 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Well, if you're arguing against the salvation that begins with keeping God's commandments, then you are arguing a salvation beginning with transgressing His commandments.
Afterall, the beginning of salvation is with one or the other, not both. No man can be both keeping and transgressing God's commandments at the same time. Right??
Or, are you preaching another gospel beginning with transgressing God's commandments? Which of course is not the salvation gospel of Jesus Christ, who saves us from our transgressions, and a whole new beginning with God:
Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,
Or, are you preaching a gospel of partially new beginning? Only saved partially from some transgressions, but not all? Don't you say salvation is whole and complete?
Or, is your salvation not from transgressing God's commandments, but from something else? If not, what are you saved from?
The gospel of Jesus Christ saving us from transgressing His commandments, is good news for any newborn son of God. right?? As well as resting in Jesus Christ from doing our own works of sin and trespass.
Heb 9:12
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
What kind of other 'realization' is it, than of resting in Christ from our dead past works? Is it some other realization, that only comes from your mystery salvation, that is not from sinning against God and Jesus Christ??
If so, what exactly are you saved from, and what 'realization' comes from being saved from it?
Frankly, 'Realization' is the kind of talk that new agers use, when they first learn to realize that they are already divine by believing it alone. What's different from a realization of partaking the divine nature by faith alone? They both name Christ.
Whatever it is you are saved from, that comes with it's very own mystery realization. If it's salvation and realization with continued transgressing God's commandments, then it certainly isn't the salvation from transgression, nor the understanding of our liberty in Jesus Christ the righteous:
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is touching him not.
Jas 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
1 Thess{5:22}
Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also doeth it.
No one transgressing God's commandment, has God's word of truth, and is not allowing Him to do anything other than judge them guilty by their own works:
Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doing the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...For there is no respect of persons with God.
Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man is sowing, that shall he also reap. For he that is sowing to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sowing to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.
You say stress and strive, Scripture says press and strive:
Phl 3:14
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 2:5
And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
No one transgressing God's commandments is pressing nor striving toward His mark.
If anyone thinks they are headed toward the mark of Jesus Christ unlawfully with transgressions, then yes, as you say they would be stressing and striving for something they cannot obtain from the holy God and Jesus Christ the righteous.
And so, what are you saved from, if not from transgressing God's commandments? What are you realizing by your beginning of faith alone? And what don't you stress about, nor strive for, if not for the prize and high calling of blameless and holy living in Christ Jesus?
1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning in fear:
Is your salvation realization also without the fear of the Lord? And His equal judgment of works without respect of persons? What exactly are you saved from, if not from transgressing the Lord and His righteous judgment of evil works?
How many times have I had to say and repeat the same thing to people who preach another gospel in the name of Christ, and not Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures.
They must reject the plain words of Scriptures to do so.
Welcome aboard the endurance fight, that will only end in the grave, or when the Lord comes again. No one will be able to ignore His plain words at that time...
Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Transgressors, that rely on their own faith alone to save them from condemnation, but not from dead works of our own. They do not know the rest, that can only come from Jesus Christ to not transgress against Him.
For unrepented sinners, only doing good with Jesus Christ, is indeed a stressing and striving against their own lust for sin, that must always fail.
True. No one sinning with the flesh has any part in the gospel of salvation from sinning.
Gal 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness...drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Only them walking after the Spirit shall have part in the blessed first resurrection of the righteous saints in Christ Jesus:
Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
No problem. If you have no objection to repentance and keeping commandments is the beginning of salvation...
However, Christ being the beginning and ending of our salvation is not a sufficient response to repentance and keeping commandments being only the beginning of salvation. No one is saying that repentance and keeping commandments is the only end of salvation, but rather that it isn't the only end.
Here's the main Scripture again:
Luk 17:8
And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
Only repenting and keeping God's commandments cannot be the only ending of our salvation, if we are only profitless servants in the end.
Jesus Christ is the beginning of our salvation to repent and keep His commandments. And He is the end of our salvation to always please Him by faith, not just do what we are commanded all men to do.
Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Or, does your idea of Jesus being the beginning and ending of salvation, mean something different?
You see, this is not only irrelevant to the teaching, but also doesn't make any sense.
How can repentance from transgressions in response to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross and His resurrection, not have anything to do with His work of saving us?? Since, we are commanded by God to repent and keep His commandments in response to His work of dying for our sins, and rising again from the dead for our salvation:
Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
And so, His promise is to save us from sins and trespasses, if we repent from our own transgressions for His name's sake. How then can repenting by His commandment somehow interfere with, much less prevent Him from doing what He promises??
You see, it makes no sense. Unless it has something to do with your idea about Jesus being the beginning and ending of our salvation? If so, then what is it? And how does repenting from transgressions prevent Jesus from beginning and ending our salvation? Especially when he commands us to do so to be converted and saved in the first place??
2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:
Once again, this is irrelevant to the original argument of repentance and keeping commandments, being the beginning of salvation.
Nor is it even relevant to necessary repentance commanded and granted by God, and begin His work of salvation in us.
Unless you're talking about a kind of double mindedness with confession of lips alone? That certainly isn't the godly sorrow, and repentance from doing evil, that Scripture speaks of. That's just the half-hearted repentance of transgressors, that God already rejects:
Jerem 3:10
And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
Of course. At least now we agree, though it's still irrelevant to the argument. It's not possible to have the word of Life and not believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.
However, repentance and keeping God's commandments with the beginning of salvation, has nothing to do with unbelievers in His gospel??
Believing the gospel is certainly always understood with repenting of transgressions for Jesus' sake:
Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
As well as keeping His commandment:
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
1Jo 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and is not keeping his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Unbelievers are transgressors, that have not repented and keep not His commandments. Unbelieving transgressors are not repented believers keeping His commandments.
That's already self-explanatory and understood. I really don't see why you are bringing unbelievers into a teaching of scripture, that only has to do with believers?
Nonsensical again. No one is talking about do whatever we want and believing Jesus Christ in our own way.
The gospel is to repent of transgressions and believe Jesus Christ His way and keeping His commandments.
Unless I'm not seeing your point clearly, let's agree not to argue about unbelievers in Jesus gospel, nor anyone just doing what they want to do, and believing Jesus Christ in some other way than His gospel.
Now, we have a quote of God's own words. Good.
Why not from this, now go on and show what it has to do with the OP teaching? Apply this Scripture specifically to any teaching point you want to repeat here, and we can see what you have. Thanks.
It never was.
If “repentance and keeping commandments” were the beginning of salvation, then Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross was secondary both chronologically and positionally.
The truth is that Jesus was "slain from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 13:8). God initiated salvation; it was not a response. Keeping commandments and repenting for not keeping commandments (or for any other sin) is therefore not the beginning of salvation.