Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Revelation1v8]

Yeah I was talking to someone else about old Testament people being born again. Since you chimes in do you have any input of any scripture that says anything regarding it ?

and yeah I was just saying there are two testaments that are thier own they have complete systems and words of the mediator

I already shared one with you, but it appears as though the notifications cut off after a certain number fill the box, so I'll share it again.

Psalms 51:10-11

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

The combination of our faith in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is what makes us born again.

 

[ScooterJackson]

this should be in scripture if it’s believable I’ve never seen it personally , but of course if it’s there that would correct my thinking ….I try to always distinguish between what’s in scripture and what isn’t

I see so thank you for revealing that you do not accept what Jesus said.

Jesus said in John 3:3 that unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God

It's always helpful to know who accept what the Lord says and who rejects what the Lord says.

Is it your belief that Jews can be saved and go to Heaven without being born again then?

 

[Churchgoer]

Matthew 5:17-20

 

[Revelation1v8]

I already shared one with you, but it appears as though the notifications cut off after a certain number fill the box, so I'll share it again.

Psalms 51:10-11

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

The combination of our faith in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is what makes us born again.

@Pilgrimshope, I'm using a more detailed explanation from A.I. to help communicate this better...

John 5:21 - For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

The Father Quickens — Old Testament Believers​

The first clause, "the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them," describes what God has always done. Old Testament believers were quickened by the Father's sovereign power — raised from spiritual death (sin) to life in grace through faith in the promised Messiah, the Law, the prophets, and the sacrificial system. Examples include Abraham, Moses, and the patriarchs, all of whom "believed God" (Hebrews 11) and received spiritual life from the Father before the Son's incarnation. The Father's quickening power is the eternal, unchanging source of life.

The Son Quickens Whom He Will — New Testament Believers​

The second clause, "the Son quickeneth whom he will," reveals that the Son now shares equally in that same life-giving authority. For New Testament believers, the Son mediates the Father's quickening:

• Spiritual quickening: Christ gives new life (regeneration) to those who believe in Him — "the dead in sin hear His voice in the Gospel, and live" (Gill's Exposition). This is the renewing of the heart, which Barnes notes "is as much the result of His will as the raising of the dead."
• Physical resurrection: The Son will raise the dead at the last day — "all that are in their graves shall come forth" (John 5:28–29).

The Key Connection​

As Augustine clarified, the Son "raises to life the same whom the Father raises" — it is not a division of labor where the Father saves one group and the Son saves another. Rather, the Son's will is "in spontaneous accord" with the Father's (BibleHub commentary). The Father's quickening of OT believers and the Son's quickening of NT believers flow from one and the same divine life, now revealed through the incarnate Son. The Old Testament saints looked forward in faith to the same Christ who now quickens His people; the New Testament believers receive that quickening directly

 

[Churchgoer]

“FYI, all OT saints got born again once that became available thru Jesus”

this should be in scripture if it’s believable I’ve never seen it personally , but of course if it’s there that would correct my thinking ….I try to always distinguish between what’s in scripture and what isn’t

When Jesus say in John 3:3, that should cover all human beings.

Another ref. Is Hebrew 11, it connects ot and nt. By faith....

 

[Beekeeper]

The harlot in Revelation 17 represents Mystery Babylon. In the Old Testament, Babylon serves as both a literal historical empire and a theological symbol of human rebellion and pride against God.

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that GREAT CITY, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the GREAT CITY, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Revelation has already identified the Mother of Harlots.
She is Jerusalem.

 

[Revelation1v8]

When Jesus say in John 3:3, that should cover all human beings.

Another ref. Is Hebrew 11, it connects ot and nt. By faith....

I saw someone else post a verse that I think might contribute to this:

Isaiah 46:9-10

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

 

[Revelation1v8]

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that GREAT CITY, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the GREAT CITY, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Revelation has already identified the Mother of Harlots.
She is Jerusalem.

No, the woman in Revelation 17 represents the city of Babylon.

Revelation 17:5

And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Here is a more detailed A.I. explanation:

Babylon was a real ancient city and empire in the Old Testament, located on the Euphrates River in modern-day Iraq. Its most significant biblical action was the conquest of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple under King Nebuchadnezzar II, which resulted in the exile of the Jewish people to Babylon.

Key Actions and Significance​

• Judgment and Exile: Babylon was used by God as an instrument of judgment against the Kingdom of Judah for its sins, leading to the destruction of Jerusalem in 586 BC and the deportation of its inhabitants.
• Symbol of Rebellion: Originating from the Tower of Babel narrative in Genesis, the city became a biblical symbol of human pride, idolatry, and defiance against God.
• Temporary Dominion: Although it ruled as a dominant superpower, the Babylonian Empire was short-lived, falling to the Persians in 539 BC, which allowed the Jewish exiles to eventually return to Judah.

 

[cv5]

It is not at all NT only, that is a straw man.

Back to making it about me, because you cannot disprove that Covenant Theology is correct and dispensationalism is eisgesis with a faulty hermeneutic that states it is literal until it is not.

A non-answer. Ok another non-answer.

"What is the trigger/precursor event that literally causes the literal Second Coming to the literal earth"?

"Is Christ Jesus coming again bodily to the EARTH where every eye will see Him, in order to reign and rule from His throne in Jerusalem? Yes or no?"

 

[Pilgrimshope]

From where I am sitting, I see this whole thing, as a total misunderstanding of covenant .
.....and that God is a covenant God,and God has a covenant people, Israel.

He will not cast them down. He will not shove them off the table.
They are in a time of trouble right now. But they're fixin to get into a real time of intense trouble.

And the whole idea is to turn them back to God through the messiah, That they're looking for, and are blinded, that it is Jesus.

Gomer illustrates the covenant of God and israel.

what unbelievable deceptio

Jesus say some are the children of satan.
Could it be possible that's 2 groups, 1 is children of God, the other is children of satan?

Yea I suppose it would depend on how one is categorizing the groups certainly there’s a group of believers and non believers . But within the structure of the Bible and revelation I was speaking of two groups belonging to god so they would be two categories of the group of believers . Ot believers and nt believers . Even it non believers have thier own subcategory such as those who died in the flood before Israel came to be they are in a category for non believers and rebels but look what happened after Jesus died

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Even those spirits from thousands of years before were visited by Jesus . So whatever the category Jesus teaches out to all beyond the limits we understand of death

 

[cv5]

The ones who replaced proper theology with dispensationalism calling everyone else replacement theologians is funny and sad.

Hi. How are you?
Might I ask you the following questions:

"What is the trigger/precursor event that literally causes the literal Second Coming to the literal earth"?

"Is Christ Jesus coming again bodily to the EARTH where every eye will see Him, in order to reign and rule from His throne in Jerusalem? Yes or no?"

 

[cv5]

Yes and what had seven heads and also seven hills? Rome.

In its time Rome was governed by seven forms of Government

1. Kings
2. Consuls
3. Dictators
4. Decemvirs
5. Military Tribunes
6. Military Emperors
7. Despotic Emperors

5 had fallen in Johns day they were already past
the one is - the 6th form of government that was present in Johns day was the Military Emperors
the not yet come - in Johns day were the 7th form - the despotic Emperors.

The Eighth head was the Papacy that took over the headship of the Roman Empire once the Roman Emperors were out of the way

Pro tip:
Mountains = Kingdoms.

Complete Seven-Head Sequence in Rev 17:

| 1 | Egypt | Fallen | Pre-Danielic (Omitted in Dan 2/7) |
| 2 | Assyria | Fallen | Pre-Danielic (Omitted in Dan 2/7) |
| 3 | Babylon | Fallen | Daniel's 1st Beast / Gold Head |
| 4 | Medo-Persia | Fallen | Daniel's 2nd Beast / Silver Arms |
| 5 | Greece | Fallen | Daniel's 3rd Beast / Bronze Torso |
| 6 | Rome | "One Is" (Present in John's day) | Daniel's 4th Beast / Iron Legs |
| 7 | Reunited/Revived Roman Empire | "Has not yet come" | Daniel's 10-Horn/Clay-Iron Stage |

(Note: Fruchtenbaum categorizes the Antichrist's ultimate final world government after he rises to full power as the "Eighth" king/empire in Rev 17:11, which springs directly
out of the 7th stage).

 

[WayneNSO]

"Is Christ Jesus coming again bodily to the EARTH where every eye will see Him, in order to reign and rule from His throne in Jerusalem? Yes or no?"

Can I answer the second question instead of @HeIsHere ?
If so my answer is NO
Christ Jesus is coming again bodily to the earth, but to reign and rule from the NEW Jeruslam

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When Jesus say in John 3:3, that should cover all human beings.

Another ref. Is Hebrew 11, it connects ot and nt. By faith....

“When Jesus say in John 3:3, that should cover all human beings.“

i keep pointing out they had a covenant beforhand made by god

“These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭29:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:8‬ ‭

“Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭29:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; and if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭26:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Some want to just forget about the first covenant as if Moses didn’t have the authority or something during the covenant . In truth moses words are the old covenant made with israel and until Christ came forth it was the only covenant god had between a group of humans and himself .

When you make a covenant with god based on what he’s said and blood is shed for those words , it’s irrevocable and binding and has to come to fruition

they could have obeyed perfectly and been the ruling kingdom on this earth or they could have broken the covenant and become cursed and eventually be destroyed .

after this was determined he promised to make a new covenant with israel that’s not according to the old that they broke .

you have the old being fulfilled with Jerusalems desolation because they broke it and that’s what he said would happen when they did . But you also have the new covenant that came with Christ beforenjesuralem was destroyed .

you can’t put Jesus word spoken in the gospel over moses words spoken then for then it came at the appointed time after the old was concluding

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


think of it this way

“The law and the prophets ( Old Testament ) were until John:



since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s a new covenant when I’m saying that I’m eluding to the words of the old and thier authority over the nation of Israel . Ask why thier terrible plight in the world what’s the source of thier suffering constantly ? Anyone who reads the curses for breaking the ot law should have no problem locating the source behind it

“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:45-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these are words from thoer covenant with god mediated by Moses it needs to be read before it’s understood but covenants matter because they are made by the everlasting word of God

Jesus eas appointed a certain time to come forth after men were held guilty as sinners by the law what he said is for the New Testament the Old Testament had thoer own mediator own covenant own ordination ( angels ) thier own oreosthood thier own sacrofoces ect

at his of course is a pattern for later but until the new came it was binding the same as ever being the same gods word

 

[ScooterJackson]

Matthew 5:17-20

Amazing! Jesus talks about "your righteousness" in Matthew 5:17-20
That's going to ruffle some religious feathers!

Matthew 5:17-20
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Churchgoer]

From where I am sitting, I see this whole thing, as a total misunderstanding of covenant .
.....and that God is a covenant God,and God has a covenant people, Israel.

He will not cast them down. He will not shove them off the table.
They are in a time of trouble right now. But they're fixin to get into a real time of intense trouble.

And the whole idea is to turn them back to God through the messiah, That they're looking for, and are blinded, that it is Jesus.

Gomer illustrates the covenant of God and israel.

what unbelievable deception.

The covenant is through Jesus blood. That's the reason it is really "blood covenant " , blood of who? Blood of Jesus.
Through Jesus blood covenant, one is saved.

If an ethnic jew die last night, not accepting Jesus as Lord and savior, sorry to say according to Jesus, this ethnic jew is with the rich man in hell. Ref. Luke 16: 19-31.

Therefore the key is to follow Jesus right now. John 3:16-21.

 

[ScooterJackson]

When Jesus say in John 3:3, that should cover all human beings.

Not should. It actually does cover all people.
One cannot get in to God's Kingdom without being born again.

Unless someone wants to make the case that Jesus spoke error in John 3:3

Like the people that falsely teach that Christians should ignore Jesus' teachings and instead follow Paul.
They claim Jesus was teaching the law of Moses to the Jews so Christians are to ignore Jesus' teachings

If an ethnic jew die last night, not accepting Jesus as Lord and savior, sorry to say according to Jesus, this ethnic jew is with the rich man in hell. Ref. Luke 16: 19-31.

Exactly

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amazing! Jesus talks about "your righteousness" in Matthew 5:17-20
That's going to ruffle some religious feathers!

Matthew 5:17-20
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.“

after he was raised up later he said

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them,

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:4

The Bible interprets itself

 

[ScooterJackson]

Jesus said

Yes, and Jesus also said "except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven" in Matthew 5:20

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The covenant is through Jesus blood. That's the reason it is really "blood covenant " , blood of who? Blood of Jesus.
Through Jesus blood covenant, one is saved.

If an ethnic jew die last night, not accepting Jesus as Lord and savior, sorry to say according to Jesus, this ethnic jew is with the rich man in hell. Ref. Luke 16: 19-31.

Therefore the key is to follow Jesus right now. John 3:16-21.

“The covenant is through Jesus blood.”

yeah the new covenant is sure just like Moses and his words and the blood he shed was the old covenant

what are you doing with this covenant god made with only isreal?


“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You’re telling me this never applied or had any authority over israel ? And god didn’t promise to later come with a new covenant that wasn’t according to the one they broke ? I don’t understand your argument a

“The law and the prophets were until John:


since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not one covenant there are two made by the same god .

“For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, When I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; Because they continued not in my covenant, And I regarded them not, saith the Lord.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Each testament is ruled by its covenant the gospel is where they overlap shortly until Jerusalems temple was destroyed leaving the old covenant desolate and unable to be kept

Moses words are different because of the ordination it’s not Christ ordaining it but the angels. Not Christ mediating it but Moses not applicable to all humanity but to israel the gospel is what’s for humanity it was never the old covenant it actually was promised before the old was made to Abraham but the old came and ran it’s course