Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
tttallison said:
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

John warns us that to solve this puzzle takes shrewdness and cleverness! The Roman Emperor we know as Nero Caesar had two common spelling for his name in the first century. One form was Nero Kesar but the Hebrew spelling is Neron Kesar. This is important because some ancient MSS (handwritten manuscripts) instead of using the number 666 have the number 616. If you add up the letter values in Hebrew (that's why it takes shrewdness-most people did not know Hebrew) Neron Caesar (Neron Kaisar) adds up to 666. Neron Kaisar = Nrwn Q(K)sr in Hebrew which used no vowels, was the linguistically correct Hebrew form and is found in the Jewish Talmud, in the writings of the community at Qumran where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, and other rabbinical writings. No Jew would ever have thought of Nero except as rsq nwrn (Hebrew read left to right). But Nero Caesar (rsq nwr), the other spelling (alternate spellings were very common), adds up to 616, which is exactly the variant reading in a few New Testament Revelation manuscripts for the number of the Beast. Nero
Nero Caesar = Nrwn Qsr = נַרינַ קֹםר

Nrwn = 50+200+6+50 = 306

Qsr = 100+60+200 = 360

306+360 = 666



ם = S = 60

ר = R = 200

קֹ = Q = 100

נַ = N = 50

י = W = 6
Click to expand...
Factor in mat 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
There have been events greater than ad 70 already.
So no, historical model in no way fits.


Also, you would need the flying scorpions to be history, and hailstones of fire to be history.
As well as the world wide mark in the foreheads

Neither have Ever happened.
It is all future
 
tttallison said:
I don't know what AOD is, there are many anti-Christs, and the Jews are the people of Jesus, and the Jews destroyed the Temple. If you read Josephus, and believe him, you will understand that the Jews were responsible for the destruction of the Temple. Even the translators of the KJV believed the Prince in Daniel 9:26 was Jesus.
Click to expand...
from google:

The Roman Forces: The Roman army was led by the general Titus, who was the son of the Roman Emperor Vespasian. [1]
  • The Context: The destruction happened during the Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE), which was the decisive battle of the First Jewish Revolt (66–73 CE) against Roman rule. [1]
  • The Action: While the Jewish rebels fiercely defended the city and the temple complex, it was the Roman troops who breached the defenses, set the temple on fire, and completely razed both the building and the city. [1]
 
OMC said:
The Nero‑gematria argument collapses the text’s own guardrails, because John never tells you to translate the name into Hebrew, never tells you to use gematria, never tells you to pick a political figure, never tells you to switch alphabets, and never ties the number to Rome — he simply says “it is the number of a man” (Rev 13:18), meaning the number identifies a man, not that the man must be Nero; and the NT never uses gematria to identify anyone, never models gematria as a prophetic method, never instructs the church to decode names by letter‑values, and never treats variant spellings as prophetic clues, so the entire Nero‑616/666 construction is an external linguistic puzzle imported into the text, not drawn from the text.
Click to expand...

Lack of evidence becomes proof? Do you have an answer for what the number of a man means?
 
tttallison said:
Lack of evidence becomes proof? Do you have an answer for what the number of a man means?
Click to expand...
“lack of evidence becomes proof” is exactly what John does not do — he tells you plainly what the number is: “it is the number of a man” (Rev 13:18), meaning the number identifies a man, not that the man must be guessed by historical reconstruction, gematria, or alphabet‑switching; and the only thing the text itself defines is that the number is his number, not a code system, not a dynasty, not a political era.
In Scripture, a “number of a man” is simply a numerical identifier tied to a person — like the census counts in Numbers, the tribal tallies, or the symbolic “six” that marks human incompleteness — and Revelation uses it the same way: the final beast‑figure will have a number that matches him when he appears, and the saints will recognize it because the text says “let him that hath understanding count the number” (Rev 13:18), meaning the understanding comes at the time of fulfillment, not by retrofitting ancient emperors.
So the answer is biblical and simple: the number is the identifier_of_the_final_man, not a puzzle to solve by looking backward.
 
Psalm1 said:
Factor in mat 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
There have been events greater than ad 70 already.
So no, historical model in no way fits.


Also, you would need the flying scorpions to be history, and hailstones of fire to be history.
As well as the world wide mark in the foreheads

Neither have Ever happened.
It is all future
Click to expand...

What does nbsp stand for?

You obviously haven't read Josephus. You are letting your own eschatology interpret scripture. What event for the Jew could be worse than eating your own child?
 
OMC said:
“lack of evidence becomes proof” is exactly what John does not do — he tells you plainly what the number is: “it is the number of a man” (Rev 13:18), meaning the number identifies a man, not that the man must be guessed by historical reconstruction, gematria, or alphabet‑switching; and the only thing the text itself defines is that the number is his number, not a code system, not a dynasty, not a political era.
In Scripture, a “number of a man” is simply a numerical identifier tied to a person — like the census counts in Numbers, the tribal tallies, or the symbolic “six” that marks human incompleteness — and Revelation uses it the same way: the final beast‑figure will have a number that matches him when he appears, and the saints will recognize it because the text says “let him that hath understanding count the number” (Rev 13:18), meaning the understanding comes at the time of fulfillment, not by retrofitting ancient emperors.
So the answer is biblical and simple: the number is the identifier_of_the_final_man, not a puzzle to solve by looking backward.
Click to expand...

Are you saying gematria didn't exist and wasn't used by the Jews?
 
tttallison said:
What does nbsp stand for?

You obviously haven't read Josephus. You are letting your own eschatology interpret scripture. What event for the Jew could be worse than eating your own child?
Click to expand...
“nbsp” is not a Bible version — it’s just a formatting artifact meaning non‑breaking space, the same invisible spacing character used in HTML. It shows up when a digital text is copied or exported and the software inserts   to keep words from splitting. It has zero connection to translation, manuscript tradition, or any biblical wording.
 
OMC said:
“nbsp” is not a Bible version — it’s just a formatting artifact meaning non‑breaking space, the same invisible spacing character used in HTML. It shows up when a digital text is copied or exported and the software inserts   to keep words from splitting. It has zero connection to translation, manuscript tradition, or any biblical wording.
Click to expand...
Thank you, there is a lot I don't know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OMC
Psalm1 said:
from google:

The Roman Forces: The Roman army was led by the general Titus, who was the son of the Roman Emperor Vespasian. [1]
  • The Context: The destruction happened during the Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE), which was the decisive battle of the First Jewish Revolt (66–73 CE) against Roman rule. [1]
  • The Action: While the Jewish rebels fiercely defended the city and the temple complex, it was the Roman troops who breached the defenses, set the temple on fire, and completely razed both the building and the city. [1]
Click to expand...
Titus was a general under orders from Caesar Nero, and it was the Jews who first set fires in the Temple.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back