Saved by faith alone?
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Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Descriptive?
Yes.
Does it matter?
No.
There is no way the Bible teaches faith alone regeneration theology yet leaves out "faith alone" in the scriptures.
Doing the will of the Father in order to enter the kingdom of heaven is prescriptive. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
It matters because confusing 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture culminates in salvation by works.
As I have already explained multiple times, you don't need to "add" the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in numerous passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do those many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO.
*So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone.
(John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
we don't earn salvation!
grace does!
Jn 1:16
And of his fulness (divinity) have all we received, and grace for grace.
What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7)
grace initiates, sustains, and completes every good work!
every good deed is preceded by unmerited divine grace!
rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (the deeds are initiated, & accomplished by grace therefore they are not considered works)
That grace is not preceded by merit. Recompense is due to good works if they are performed; but grace, to which we have no claim, precedes them, to enable them to be done.
(grace makes them meritorious or having supernatural value)
thks
you base alot on eph 2 so lets see what it is about!
what are the possibilities?
a) the general redemption
b) our personal salvation
eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
quickend or brought to life
brought to life in grace Jn 1:16
meaning that general redemption by which Christ makes our justification possible
eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
eph 2:9 titus 3:5 2 tim 1:9 not works
refers to the general redemption accomplished by Christ without our participation "works"
redemption is a part of the process of salvation so it is identified as salvation or the salvation in the past tense
eph 2:8 titus 3:5 2 tim 1:9 all use the past tense of salvation or "saved" all refer to the general redemption accomplished by Christ apart from us!
eph 2:8 excludes our participation in the general redemption "not of yourselves"!
eph 2:8 titus 3:5 & 2 tim 1:9 all refer to the general redemption, it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers something that has already occurred, the redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement. “Not of yourselves”
not our personal salvation but the general redemption!
redemption and justification are not salvation, but parts in the process of salvation!
It does not end with justification as some think, having the gift of justice and righteousness there must be the performance of the deeds of righteousness and these are not dead works, but totally of grace!
Lk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Romans 2:6-7
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)
thks
Most atheist don't even know why they don't believe. They assume it goes against science and other philosophies. So having them on a site like this might actually be the first time they will ever read about the truths surrounding the Gospel. And it fulfills the promise God made that He makes Himself known to everyone (Romans 1).
The verse at hand was Matthew 7:21 not John 6:40.
You are presenting John 6:40 as an all-encompassing panacea, it is not.
An honest reading of this passage does not allow the verse to negate the many other scriptures that prescribe works of obedience.
You are doing like much of the faith alone regeneration theology groups, take a generality and attempting to shoehorn a definitive such as "alone" into the verse to fit your narrative.
This need to shoehorn a definitive should be a red flag when defending your beliefs.
I personally believe the need for baptism on the issue of salvation hence I present scriptures that have baptism in the passage.
You personally believe that salvation is by faith (properly understood) alone but are forced to shoehorn your definitive into all of your biblical generalities.
None of the verses you ever present have the verbiage that supports your theology.
This has been presented to you many times yet you refuse to admit that you are presenting a theology without an example.
Regardless of how properly understood you think faith must be, the scriptures still say that it is not faith alone that saves.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Notice that I am not forced to shoehorn "alone" into the verse.
Please do not be closed minded. And have a look at what is revealed in Church Encyclopedias regarding the change individuals made. Sadly, generations have been duped into following a manmade tradition begun years after the apostolic era.
There are numerous other encyclopedias that express the same; however, due to the word limit on post i was unable to include them. But if you would like to see what other publications record I will be happy to make additional posts.
THE ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA, volume 1, 1899 edition, further supports the “Jesus Name” baptism as the original form: From these passages, and from Paul’s words in I Corinthians 1:13 Was Paul crucified for you, or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times “in the name of Jesus Christ,” or in that “of the Lord Jesus.”
This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of baptismal confession appear to have been single, not triple, as was the later creed” Page 473.
This encyclopedia continues on the subject of the baptismal formula expounding on Paul’s encounter with the Ephesian disciples of John (Acts 19) who stated, “We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost” and also on Paul’s question to the disciples, “Unto what then, were ye baptized?”
Accordingly, Paul’s question simply implies that Christian baptism could scarcely have been given without some instruction as to this gift which was to follow it.
In any case, it would be exceedingly strange that at this point Luke should not have referred to the three-fold formula, had it been in use, instead of simply saying, “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 19:5) Page 474
ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA, volume 1, page 473, 1899 edition. Under formula: “In the Name of Jesus Christ or of the Lord Jesus.
The former expression is used in Acts 2:38 and 10:48. The latter is used in Acts 8:16 and 19:5. See also Acts 22:16...From these passages, and from Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 1:13 (Was Paul crucified for you, or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”), it is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest (times “in the Name of Jesus Christ,” or in that “of the Lord Jesus.”
This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to be single—not triple, as was the later creed The Bible teaches only baptism in the Name of Jesus. Acts 2:38; 4:10- 12; 8:16; 10:47-48; - 19:3-6; 22:16; Colossians 3:17; Luke 24:46-47.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, VOLUME 8
“Justin Martys was one of the early Fathers of the Roman Catholic Church who helped change the ancient baptism of “in the Name of Jesus Christ” to the titles of Father, Son and Holy Ghost”
FORMULA “With regard to the form used for baptism in the early Church, there is the difficulty that although Matthew 28:19 seems to speaks of the Trinitarian formula which is now used, the Acts of the Apostles (2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5) and Paul (I Corinthians 1:13, 6:11, Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:3) speak only of baptism “in the Name of Jesus.”
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, 1967 edition, volume 2, pages 56, 59.
“An explicit reference to the Trinitarian formula of baptism cannot be found in the first centuries.”
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEIA, 1913 edition, volume 2, Page 265:
“They acknowledge that the original formula for baptism was in the Name of Jesus...”
ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS Scribner‘s T & T Clark, Edinburgh, 1924, vol 1 Page 380
“Christian baptism, when connected with the mention of a formula, is alluded to four times in the Acts (2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5) and the formula is never that of (Matthew 28:19) but is twice in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38, 10:48) and twice in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 8:16, 19:5).
That this was the usual formula of Christian baptism is supported by the evidence of the Pauline Epistles, which speak of being baptized only into Christ or into Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:3).
Is it possible to reconcile these facts with the belief that Christ commanded the disciples to baptize in the trine name?
The obvious explanation of the silence of New Testament on the trine name, and the use of another formula in Acts and Paul is that this other formula was the earlier, and that the trine formula is a later edition. It would require very strong argument to controvert this presumption, and none seems to exist”.
ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS James Hastings, Published 1924, volume 2, Pages 377, 378, 384, 389:
Page 377. “It is clear from the contemporary usage (Acts 1:15; 11:13; Revelations 3:4) that ‘name’ was an ancient synonym for ‘person.’
Page 378 “Whereupon the latter sealed the reception of the candidate into the holy community by invoking ‘the fair name’ of the Lord Jesus upon his head (James 2:7; Revelations 7:3; 9:4; 14:1; 22:4).”
Page 384. “The formula used was “in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ,” or some synonymous phrase. There is no evidence for the use of the triune name.”
Page 389. The earliest known formula is, “in the name of the Lord Jesus” or some similar phrase...”
AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIONS - Maurice Canney, page 53.
“Persons were baptized at first “in the name of Jesus Christ” (Acts 2:38, 10:48) or “in the name of the Lord Jesus” (Acts 8:16, 19:5).
Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost”
EARLIEST CHRISTIANITY- .J. Weiss, Published 1959, volume 2, page 633.
“However little we may know of the liturgical form of the old celebration of baptism, yet it is clear that it involved uttering the name of Christ in a vigorous, expressive manner, probably by the baptizer, possibly also by the baptized person.”
STANDARD BIBLICAL DICTIONARY, Page 94.
“Baptism” “As to the form of the Baptismal confession (the New Testament shows no trace of a baptismal Formula used by the baptizer, whose part is that of a mere minister and witness, if I Corinthians 1:14-17, 6:11, it was at first apparently only ‘Jesus is the Messiah’ (Acts 2:38, 18:5, 20, 22:16) or ‘the Lord’ (Acts 8:16, 19:5, Romans 10:9, Ephesians 5:26, I Corinthians 6:11, 12:3; cf.
When exactly the Trinitarian form arose we do not know, the date of Matthew 28:19, did.
Acts 2:4, 10:46, 19:6), was associated with water-baptism (Acts 2:38) on Jewish lines, those of John the Baptist. How far the Christians had their master’s explicit authority for this is doubtful; many hold the wording of Matthew 28:19 to be due to Church usage passing into tradition (Mark 16:16 is certainly secondary).7
“All this is present in germ in Peter’s words (Acts 2:38-40), ‘Repent, and let each of you get himself baptized in the name of Jesus Christ unto remission of sins,’ etc. The phrase ‘in the name’ now calls for closer consideration.
It is clear from contemporary usage (e.g. Acts 1:15, Revelations 3:4, 1:13,) that ‘name’ was an ancient synonym for person. ‘Parallels, moreover, from the colloquial Greek of the time show that the expression ‘in the name’ was itself widely used, especially in solemn or formal connexions, and with special reference to proprietorship.
Thus a payment is made. . ‘into so-and-so’s account’; petition is presented..,. ‘to the king’s person’; (Rendtorfl, op. ci. p. 9f). Such solemn invocation of the king’s name in token of personal allegiance answers exactly to one marked aspect of baptism (2 Timothy 2:3), which was further developed in Christian thought after the Apostolic Age, in the notion of the militia Christi (see Harnack’s monograph so entitled).
Only, in primitive Christian baptism, ‘the name’ possible as sum of the divine perfection (Psalm 115:1 ;where ‘mercy’ and ‘truth’ are elements of God’s name), was invoked, in the first instance, for mercy and protection.
In any case the formula ‘in the name of’ with or without associations from old Testament usage=...rather than’ so Dalman), came to have in all Christian circles - though with. different shades of thought, as between typical Jews and others - the pregnant sense of identification between the baptized and Him, in whose name baptism took place. The one became thereby the personal property of the other, as part of the people of peculiar possession.
Both of those verses are in harmony.
Which works of obedience were "added" to BELIEVES IN HIM in John 6:40?
Works of obedience "follow" believing in Him/placing faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
The word faith "stands alone" in those numerous passages of scripture so no shoehorning is necessary. Nothing is added yet it's you who attempts to "shoehorn" works "into" those numerous passages of scripture.
You attempting to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works is a red flag.
You present scriptures with baptism in the passage taken out of context and out of harmony with the rest of scripture. You try to turn a symbol into a savior.
Faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. This means that we are saved the very moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
None of those numerous verses have the verbiage that supports your salvation by faith + works theology.
I presented numerous examples, yet you still seem determined to distort and pervert passages of scripture in your efforts to "patch together" a different plan of salvation
Faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) is not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14-24) *How about a little context:
*In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
*James is not using the term "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
James 2:24 - You see that a person is justified (shown to be righteous) by works and not by (a bare profession of) faith (that remains) alone (barren of works).
It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*
Grace was paid for on the cross.
which means you can not earn salvation to get it. and you can not unearn salvation because can not earn it.
Here is your mistake
Redemption is the payment, It is through his blood. it includes forgiveness of sin, according to his grace.
Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
Colossians 1:14
in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
Justification is a legal declaration. it literally means to be declaired righteous. However. it is not our righteousness that makes us justified. it is the sons righteousness..
I am justified. because my sins are forgiven, because of Gods grace. because of this I am saved
this is you trying to earn your salvation.
No amount of good works you could possibly do in your lifetime will pay for one sin..
so you will never be in a state where you are righteaus according to your good works.
heb 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
How do you do that without works?
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
How do you do that without works?
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...
How do you do that without works?
2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
How do you do that without works?
Jn 15:1-6 mt 10:22
abide in Christ until death.
How do you do that without works?
thks
deeds of the law of the spirit of righteousness
rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
((walking refers to the performance of deeds))
Gal 6:7-8
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
((sowing refers to the performance of deeds))
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
((to live according to the flesh or according to Spirit refers to to the performance of deeds))
It impossible to walk, sow, or live without deeds!
The rightous walk, sow, & live by the deeds of the Spirit!
1 pet 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Deeds of the Spirit!
Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Gal 5:17-25
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
thks
But those words are addressed to believers. Resisting to blood, striving against sin, are not stated there as works to be done in order to receive salvation.
Jesus Himself is the Way. He said so in John 14:6. Going in by Him is not a work. It's relying on His work.
That was the incident of Paul as a Christian having what he called "a thorn in the flesh." Relying on the sufficient grace of Christ is not a work, and anyway, Paul was already saved at this stage.
salvation is a gift.
how do you recieve a gift with works?
You earned the wage of sin (death)
You can not earn the gift of life
Both of those verses are in harmony.
Which works of obedience were "added" to BELIEVES IN HIM in John 6:40?
Works of obedience "follow" believing in Him/placing faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
The word faith "stands alone" in those numerous passages of scripture so no shoehorning is necessary. Nothing is added yet it's you who attempts to "shoehorn" works "into" those numerous passages of scripture.
You attempting to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works is a red flag.
You present scriptures with baptism in the passage taken out of context and out of harmony with the rest of scripture. You try to turn a symbol into a savior.
Faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. This means that we are saved the very moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
None of those numerous verses have the verbiage that supports your salvation by faith + works theology.
I presented numerous examples, yet you still seem determined to distort and pervert passages of scripture in your efforts to "patch together" a different plan of salvation
Faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) is not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14-24) *How about a little context:
*In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
*James is not using the term "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
James 2:24 - You see that a person is justified (shown to be righteous) by works and not by (a bare profession of) faith (that remains) alone (barren of works).
It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*
James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.
That bona-fide Faith was perfected!
Relying on His work is a choice.
A choice that we cannot make.
The proper way to express this is "Because I am chosen God will send me of Him but not the rest of you."
Relying on the sufficient grace of Christ is a choice.
A choice that we cannot make.
The proper way to express this is "Because I am chosen God's grace is sufficient for me but not rest of you."
People cannot rely on anything that effects their salvation.
That's if you believe in election.
what do I think it is?
both grace now and eternal salvation after death and judgement
Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
(grace now not eternal salvation)
Jn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. (grace more abundantly)
thks
it was perfected 20 - 30 years after he was saved in gen 15?
come on now.. lets think about this.