So is the general consensus that demon possession in the Bible was mental illness?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
There's no doubt that one could argue that there are different kinds of demon possession that occur in the world. The kind of possession described by 4Enlightenment, if one were to consider that possession rather than just our sin nature at work, could certainly be a valid form of possession, but it is not the type of possession I am talking about.

I am talking about the type of possession recorded in the Bible, and whether or not that was actually demon possession or mental illness. If it was truly demon possession, why does that kind of behavior only happen in uneducated third world communities? Why does that kind of possession end when knowledge and medicine arrive with a society? Is it just a coincidence? Likely not, as this is evident in every first world society today. This kind of possession just does not happen there, but it still is reported today in the poorer, uneducated parts of the world. Why is that? I think it's a sign that it really wasn't demon possession but rather mental illness. Unless you have some valid explanation for why demons seem to change their behavior the second a society becomes educated....

What you say sounds perfectly logical, but Jesus asked a demon what its name was...
I don't know whether I would just automatically assume that if drugs can keep a physical or mental disorder "tamped down", that this means it can't be demon possession. The drugs could just be another form of the chains they used to lock down the Gadarene. I mean, demons don't have bodies of their own and it seems logical that they then would find their "opening" in our minds.

We know we have a Spirit that leads to the renewing of our minds, and verses talk about Him giving us a sound mind.
 
Last edited:
The modern attitude to demon possession is very instructive isn't it? So many take the attitude that there is no such thing as demon possession, and infer that Jesus Christ Himself knew quite well that there was no such thing, not seeing that, by such an attitude, they put themselves in the place of the superior person, and claim to know all the private opinions of the Almighty about iniquity (wickedness).

Jesus unquestionably did believe in the fact of demon possession. Shouldn't we as Christians be asking, "Is there such a thing Lord? Show me, I am open to knowing what you want me to understand on this issue." Yet we tend to say, "This is what I think, logically, now prove me wrong." The New Testament is full of Supernatural; Jesus Christ saw what we cannot see; supernatural forces at work. "Try the Spirits whether they are of God." (1 John 4:1).

Nogard suggests all demoniacal influences are only natural sicknesses. But certain parts being infested by demons is real and different from natural sicknesses. Read the Records of Our Lord casting out demons: "Thou dumb and deaf Spirit, I charge thee, come out." (Mark 9:25). Other times He said nothing about demons when He healed the deaf and dumb. (Matthew 9:32).

Our Lord many times mentioned demons, and attaching them to particular organs affected. But, in regards to Gadara, he was possessed by demons not only in a particular organ, but thru the whole of his body. how many personalities can be in one body? Take this man of Gardara "And Jesus asked him, What is thy name? And he said Legion; for many devil's were entered into him." (Luke 8:30).

The case of Judas instances the identification of a human soul with the devil himself. As is man capable to be one with Christ, it is true one can be one with Satan. "Then entered Satan into him." (John 13:27).

"I have not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil." (John 6:70).

These are the Scriptures I hope help in fact finding. There are Supernatural sicknesses of the body and soul in this present life, but the great news is Jesus Christ can deal with them all. Jesus talked about Satan, demons, and Angels, yet we don't see them. Are we therefore going to criticize Jesus Christ's statements? -- If so, time for me to go jogging....I'm not interested in doing that.
:).


Just checking in before going to bed, and wanted to commend Slave for this insightful response. I noticed as well that certain ailments in Scripture were sometimes attributed to demon possession and other times just to general sickness and health. What you're suggesting is that if someone was inflicted with a perpetual illness or other calamity, it could be due to natural causes from poor health OR it could be a demon.

This is interesting, because it raises a lot of questions. If you have two people with the same ailment, one due to natural causes and one due to demon possession, would modern day medicine be able to cure both people? It's understandable how Jesus would know the difference, but how did the commonfolk know the difference between the two? It seems like it would be hard to tell.

With the Pentecostal/charasmatic movement arising in the early 20th century, the religious landscape is tilting more toward the spiritual again. Spiritual gifts, being slain in the spirit, and warfare with demons are growing practices among Pentecostals and especially growing among Latin American believers. I'll never forget the conversation I had with an acquaintance at college. This was back when I was still a believer myself. The guy mentioned how he woke up in the middle of the night to find a demon in his room. He went on to say how he prayed and fought with the demon, ultimately getting it to leave. I was fascinated with this story because if I ever were to wake up and just see what appeared to be a demon in my room, I would scream and run out of the house, call the cops, and so forth. But this guy, apparently unfazed that a supernatural apparition was in his room, calmly duked it out with the creature. Out of the two reactions, mine would seem more logical, but his is more common. When I heard others say similar stories (as I had several Assembly of Godian acquaintances in college), they all acted in similar ways. Instead of running from the room, calling for help, or taking a picture on their phone for evidence, they just kind of get in this zone and duke it out. Of course, more conservative Christians view spiritual warfare as a purely mental, personal thing that charismatics tend to incorrectly project into the natural world.

What was the point of that tangent? Simply that the mix between the supernatural and natural is somewhat complicated in Christianity, which is what your post alludes to in a way, and there is even some dispute on it between denominations.

Anyway, I appreciate the response. Very insightful.
 
Just checking in on this issue. As you know, demon possession is mentioned quite a bit in the new testament. When it's symptoms are described, it sounds a lot like autism or other forms of mental illness.

Demon possession is not isolated to the New Testament, or even to Christianity, but the one commonality is that it is believed in generally uneducated, third world societies (note that I am referring to the belief that specific people in your community are demon possessed and that they can be exorcised. Not just the abstract belief of demon possession. The idea that demon possession is possible is not the same as believing, along with the rest of the community, that your neighbor two doors down is currently demon possessed.)

Given the fact that demon possession doesn't happen in an educated, first world society, it seems to reason that demon possession, as recorded in scripture, is actually a reference to the mentally ill. Unless you think demons purposely only possess people in poor, uneducated communities....

I found some interesting documentation of demon possession by Dr. Richard E. Gallagher, Valhalla, NY, whose case has been examined and concurred by other psychiatrists. To get his entire report requires subscribing to one or more journals, but you can cobble together enough by research like I did. Of course atheists came out in droves against the case, like they do against creation scientists who are systematically dismantling evolution.

So there has in fact been a documentation of demon possession in America, in 2008. A good summary by a doctor is at Reasons To Believe : Testing Demonic Possession
Next, please study up on mental illness. I found many causes, including brain trauma from accidents, with no cure in many cases. There are chemical imbalances at the root of many mental illnesses. Doubtless the Jews of Jesus' day dealt with such cases, as did the ancient Egyptians and Greeks before him. They had physicians too, yet understood there was a difference between physiological and spiritual causes of derangement.

I dismiss claims only such "third world" societies believe demon possession is possible, simply because Jesus dealt with it, one time saying a certain kind comes out by much fasting and prayer. If there was a physiological cure available, say by counselling, then his special deliverance of a demon would be a matter of confusion presented in the word of God. Unbelievers like to accept such ideas of error in the scriptures. The supposed error would be in his statement that kind only comes out, is "cured by", his method, not any other way.

Nevertheless, the OP premise of no documentation of a demonic possession is hereby challenged. Either the OP author must side with atheists and their simple denials, or find qualified MDs who have successfully proven Dr. Gallagher's case was misdiagnosed. I have quit trying to find evidence of error.
 
Just checking in on this issue. As you know, demon possession is mentioned quite a bit in the new testament. When it's symptoms are described, it sounds a lot like autism or other forms of mental illness.

Demon possession is not isolated to the New Testament, or even to Christianity, but the one commonality is that it is believed in generally uneducated, third world societies (note that I am referring to the belief that specific people in your community are demon possessed and that they can be exorcised. Not just the abstract belief of demon possession. The idea that demon possession is possible is not the same as believing, along with the rest of the community, that your neighbor two doors down is currently demon possessed.)

Given the fact that demon possession doesn't happen in an educated, first world society, it seems to reason that demon possession, as recorded in scripture, is actually a reference to the mentally ill. Unless you think demons purposely only possess people in poor, uneducated communities....

Greetings nogard,

I have studied and documented all of the demon possessions mentioned in scripture and I would suggest that you do the same. There is no reason conclude that demon possession is restricted to mental illness. There are too many accounts of demon possession that demonstrate other than mental illness, the man possessed by the demons
collectively called Legion as one example. Jesus also describes some characteristics regarding demons demonstrating that they are actual beings that posses:

"When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it.Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ On its arrival, it finds the house vacant, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and dwell there; and the final plight of that man is worse than the first. So will it be with this wicked generation.”

"Now there were some itinerant Jewish exorcists who tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those with evil spirits. They would say, “I bind you by Jesus, whom Paul proclaims.” Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. Eventually, one of the evil spirits answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but you, who are you?” Then the man with the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. The attack was so violent that they ran out of the house, naked and wounded."

Then there would be the fact that when Jesus drove out some of the demons, they threw the man down on the ground and it shrieked before leaving. In fact, every scripture referring to Jesus driving out demons was regarding the literal possession of an individual. Furthermore, scripture also makes a distinction between when Jesus was healing someone of physical defect or sickness, in opposition to driving out a demon. Scripture also demonstrates that some physical defects such as blindness, deafness, mute, body deformities, etc., was caused by the demon possession itself.
 
Alot of people would argue that there is a difference between demon posession and posessing a demon, Ya know to feel jealous of another person is evil, to be full of fear is evil, to love money is evil, to lust after, to masterbate is evil, to be addicted to sex drugs or gambling is evil.. Have you ever had one of these problems but really can't stop it no matter what? In my own experience I believe there is much more demonic activity going on in the world than just in mental hospitals! I have been delivered from alot of spiritual strongholds... Does that mean I was demon posessed or did I posess a demon?

Was hitler demon posessed? Was obama bin laden demon posessed.. the mafia, were they demon posessed. The lady in the bible had a spirit of divination but she was still able to function in a way that seemed normal? What about people that believe in other religions? The bible says that satan has blinded the eyes of those who dont believe... Demons are everywhere. We should not be niave to think they are only in the people that look crazy or are in a mental asylum. Bless u all
 
Alot of people would argue that there is a difference between demon posession and posessing a demon, Ya know to feel jealous of another person is evil, to be full of fear is evil, to love money is evil, to lust after, to masterbate is evil, to be addicted to sex drugs or gambling is evil.. Have you ever had one of these problems but really can't stop it no matter what? In my own experience I believe there is much more demonic activity going on in the world than just in mental hospitals! I have been delivered from alot of spiritual strongholds... Does that mean I was demon posessed or did I posess a demon?

Was hitler demon posessed? Was obama bin laden demon posessed.. the mafia, were they demon posessed. The lady in the bible had a spirit of divination but she was still able to function in a way that seemed normal? What about people that believe in other religions? The bible says that satan has blinded the eyes of those who dont believe... Demons are everywhere. We should not be niave to think they are only in the people that look crazy or are in a mental asylum. Bless u all

Hi JennLeanne,

What we are talking about here are actual evil spirits/fallen angels taking control over an individuals mind and body. That said, every demon that Jesus drove out was a literal unclean spirit that had taken possession of that human being.
 
This makes no sense and points directly back to what I was saying in the first place. Why is it that demon possession is so blatant in uneducated third world communities but it is "covert" and "secret" in the modern world? Why aren't there cases of demon possession going on in the United States, UK, and so forth? We still hear of them in India and in the poorer regions of South America, Africa, and Asia.

But once knowledge and medicine come into play, all of a sudden people don't get demon possessed anymore? That is a very strange coincidence. Apparently you are content with believing that demons trade blatant possession for covert materialism for some reason. There is no evidence or reason for you to believe that, but I guess that's all you got to go with given the facts of the situation.

Ehm there are people who commit suicide or kill others when they get those drugs. That's because more demons get in when they want to kick some out with a pill. The only smart ones are the ones in Africa. Lot of patients with supposed mental illness here went to Africa to be set free, because the psychiaters here couldn't help them. Enlightenment is blindness to the spirit realm. Never use your brain for the spirit realm, only for the natural realm.
An example: that ex mass murderer who went to a satanic church.
 
I'm going to head out, so thanks for all your responses. It seems like the general consensus is that demon possession has changed over time to "adapt" to the modern world. This seems to satisfy everyone concerning this, although it really is just an assumption at best, but I suppose it's plausible. It will forever be a mystery to me why possession and miracles were more blatant/public in the older times than they are today.
Ya know? You might debate more effectively and seem like you know what you're doing more, if you actually knew the definition of consensus. Because you keep bringing up the word as if it means something other than what it does mean, I feel very much like I'm having a debate with my younger brother back when he was a child about if Santa Claus exists. The only reason we'd have the debate in reality was I was testing him to see if his friends had filled him in on the reality. It was never a serious debate simply because he didn't know enough to seriously debate.

(And Santa Claus does exist. His name is Dad. lol)

So, might I recommend you go do dome research on debating and logic? Your skill level isn't very good. I've recently realize I have no tact, so I'm trying to be tactful here.
 
Alot of people would argue that there is a difference between demon posession and posessing a demon, Ya know to feel jealous of another person is evil, to be full of fear is evil, to love money is evil, to lust after, to masterbate is evil, to be addicted to sex drugs or gambling is evil.. Have you ever had one of these problems but really can't stop it no matter what? In my own experience I believe there is much more demonic activity going on in the world than just in mental hospitals! I have been delivered from alot of spiritual strongholds... Does that mean I was demon posessed or did I posess a demon?

Was hitler demon posessed? Was obama bin laden demon posessed.. the mafia, were they demon posessed. The lady in the bible had a spirit of divination but she was still able to function in a way that seemed normal? What about people that believe in other religions? The bible says that satan has blinded the eyes of those who dont believe... Demons are everywhere. We should not be niave to think they are only in the people that look crazy or are in a mental asylum. Bless u all
Why would a spiritual being ever become possessed by an organic being? And how?
 
Why would a spiritual being ever become possessed by an organic being? And how?

I may be wrong, but I don't think she meant a human being actually possessing a demon. Seems like it was probably a poor choice of words for a human involving themselves with a demon through sin. I'll let her respond for herself, though!
 
I think...there is a difference between oppression and possession. Oppression, in my opinion, would involve a demon or satan, but would be more like...satan sifting one like wheat as opposed to being possessed in your mind.
Does that make sense to anyone because I have recently become aware that I'm kind of a windbag, so I'm trying to cut down on the wind. (Just thought I'd confess that since depleted got us started :D).
 
We should all pray for nogard to truly understand the Gospel...I doubt you truly ever knew it. Because you would never leave or lose faith in God if you did.
 
*Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise.*For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”;*and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” - 1 Corinthians 3:18-20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians3:18-20&version=NIV
 
I can throw a idea out there on why it has changed so much First the way way old days they did not store food as safe as we do now and rats and other rodents would urinate on food and people would ingest it and get very sick and hallucinate and would make it look as if they were possessed often times the older children ate before the younger less important children did so often times the Hierarchy of people would get ill first. Secondly if people would go with out water and food they would hallucinate and be seen as possessed. also they stored their foods in the ground and molds and stuff would grown on the stored food and they would eat it and get sick and hallucinate and be treated like they were possessed. So now a days these things are not happening due to better food storage and better conditions and now when it happens it usually from drugs or alcohol or other random things also from brain injuries and etc...
 
"Given the fact that demon possession doesn't happen in an educated, first world society, it seems to reason that demon possession, as recorded in scripture, is actually a reference to the mentally ill. Unless you think demons purposely only possess people in poor, uneducated communities...."

No m'aam!!.....Not at all!! (in fact) QUITE, the opposite, holds true!!.......
 
Given the fact that demon possession doesn't happen in an educated, first world society, it seems to reason that demon possession, as recorded in scripture, is actually a reference to the mentally ill. Unless you think demons purposely only possess people in poor, uneducated communities....

1. the actual understanding is not that the demon possesses the person...the person actually has the demon...do some research...most translations, including lthe KJ, have it wrong...the understanding was not as those who actually wrote the Bible ...you know, the folks who lived it

2. demons like nothing better than you,me and Susan (sorry if a Susan is reading this) thinking they do not exist

3. the Bible tells us, through Paul, that we are not ignorant of the schemes of the devil...the problem however, is that the audience in which that letter was circulated were not ignorant. Many in the west are ignorant.

The Bible lists the ways the devil comes...he enters through ignorance, fear, pride and various other ways

He is not omnipresent...but does have a vast army of evil spirits who do his bidding...this is not superstition...the greatest weapon they have is deception

Therefore, put on the whole armor of God

Of course there is mental illness....all kinds of it...just as there are all kinds of physical illness...we live in a fallen world
 
Oh dear. I guess I'll play along.

My proof is there are no "video, news article, or anything that documents a case of demon possession in the modern first world similar to those depicted in Bible times."

If you think this is untrue, then the burden is on YOU to come up with proof that can discount my claim.

I have personally witnessed a demon manifesting in the face of someone, who began to scream get it off me...get it off me...his face had turned ashen white with dark circles under his eyes, whereas he had a good healthy tan when he had begun the evening

we cast it out and away in the name of Jesus...with no problem...and his face returned to normal

these things exist...we are not to fear them, but rather deal with them

it is not a power encounter...it is a truth encounter

frankly, I have seen more of the devil's kingdom then I would prefer, but I guess God has His reasons

you don't play with these things or talk to them..they are nothing but liars anyway

you don't go looking for them...but deal with them like a bump in the road...keep your focus on Jesus...Jesus dealt with the devil simply by saying 'It is written'...and that is how we also should deal...
 
Just checking in on this issue. As you know, demon possession is mentioned quite a bit in the new testament. When it's symptoms are described, it sounds a lot like autism or other forms of mental illness.

Demon possession is not isolated to the New Testament, or even to Christianity, but the one commonality is that it is believed in generally uneducated, third world societies (note that I am referring to the belief that specific people in your community are demon possessed and that they can be exorcised. Not just the abstract belief of demon possession. The idea that demon possession is possible is not the same as believing, along with the rest of the community, that your neighbor two doors down is currently demon possessed.)

Given the fact that demon possession doesn't happen in an educated, first world society, it seems to reason that demon possession, as recorded in scripture, is actually a reference to the mentally ill. Unless you think demons purposely only possess people in poor, uneducated communities....

hi nogard,

are you asking about demon possession in the Bible (from the title)?

or, "the belief that specific people in your community are demon possessed", as in "my friend Joe is possessed"?

or, "the idea that demon possession is possible" and could happen to "Joe"?

or something else?