Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

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Talking to literal Israel ....
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Literal Israel rejected the Messiah.
It is now a personal choice.

Paul explains it in the olive tree

We can accept Jesus and be part of the house of God or reject Jesus and be cut off.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

History is good if you can find the truth.
It isn't a popular fact so it is often hard to find.
But history shows that for 100's of years the early church had no issue about the sabbath. The early church's all kept the sabbath.
The literal Jews did not like it and pagan religions persecuted sabbath Keepers.

The change came via the Catholic church. It was their sign and mark of authority.

But the early churches kept the sabbath.
 
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Had there been a switch from the Sabbath to the first day of the week, you can be sure the controversy would have been more explosive than any other to those Jewish Christians. Paul would have made things clear and taked about it in detail if it was an issue.

It was not a debate. They knew which day was made holy. Both Jews and Gentiles.

The influence of pagan religions anti Jewish sentiment and the Rise of the catholic church resulted in Sunday worship. But God had sabbath Keepers in every age in many places.
 
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Let God be true

Romans 2:28-29​

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Revelation 2:8-9​

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
 
dkontner said:
Colossians 2

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Click to expand...
That verse leaves room for two scenarios:

1.) The Colossians were not celebrating God's feasts, they were being judged by Jews because they were not, and Paul was encouraging them not to let anyone judge them for not celebrating them.

2.) The Colossians were celebrating God's feasts, they were being judged by pagans because they were, and Paul was encouraging them not to let anyone judge them for celebrating them.

In Colossians 2:16-23, Paul described the people who were judging the Colossians as promoting human teachings and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, which means that they were being judged by pagans and that the second scenario was the case. Those promoting asceticism and severity to the body would be judging people for celebrating feasts, not for refraining from doing that. If you agree that Paul was a servant of God, then you should be opposed to interpreting him in a way that turns him against obeying what God has commanded, especially where he was encouraging people not to let anyone prevent them from obeying God.
 
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TMS said:
How do you distinguish between the laws. Hebs 7-10 is helpful, I agree.

I see many laws but the at the end of the day there are two laws.
The laws that are to be kept today.
The laws that were for a time and are not to be kept today.

2 laws

One law distinguishes sin. Points out sin.
One law deals with sin and points to the remedy for sin.
Click to expand...

I was raised by loving Christian parents, so it is easy for me to understand how cooperation with the Holy Spirit supersedes obeying because of fear—although I did get a handful of whippings that hurt my dad worse than me.
 
BBerean said:
We are justified by Christ Jesus the Lord . Sinning is breaking the law no matter who you are .
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That is not correct.

Israel was in covenant to obey the law not the Gentiles (Exodus 24).

Israel was in covenant to obey the written law, the codified law, not the Gentiles.

That is the fundamental error in your theology.

Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law,
are a law to themselves.

Surely you can read Romans 2:14?

Gentiles were never in a covenant to obey the law.
 
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TMS said:
Spiritualy we inherit the promised land and spiritual we inherit many other promises. We should not say we are not Israelites. By adoption we are Israelites in Christ
All one in Christ...

So the Gentile argument used to say the 10 commandments are not for us, does not apply.
As spiritual Jews we should obey the law.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Inwardly and spiritually it applies to us.
Click to expand...
Your reading Romans and ignoring the context.

There is no Jew or Gentile in heaven.

Gentiles do not become spiritual Jews.

In Romans 7, Paul is explaining to the Jews in Rome that they are no longer under the law.

Romans 7:4-6
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you
might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in
the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law,
having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in
oldness of the letter.

The Jews are not under the law having bee released from the law!

we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter
 
Hebrews ch 8 , 9, 10,11 an excellent read !
A few verses that stand out to me ch 8 v 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days , Saith the Lord , I will put my laws into their mind , and write them in their hearts ; and I will be to them a God , and they shall be to me a people.

Hebrews ch 10 v 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days , Saith the Lord , I will put my laws into their minds will I write them ; ( read the whole chapters for better understanding. But here you can see The Lord deepened his laws more so than the letter of the law into the lives of his people,therefore very much more alive ! Amen . )
 
TMS said:
Talking to literal Israel ....
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Literal Israel rejected the Messiah.
It is now a personal choice.

Paul explains it in the olive tree

We can accept Jesus and be part of the house of God or reject Jesus and be cut off.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

History is good if you can find the truth.
It isn't a popular fact so it is often hard to find.
But history shows that for 100's of years the early church had no issue about the sabbath. The early church's all kept the sabbath.
The literal Jews did not like it and pagan religions persecuted sabbath Keepers.

The change came via the Catholic church. It was their sign and mark of authority.

But the early churches kept the sabbath.
Click to expand...
Yes the Sabbath keepers where persecuted, by the Romans and later the RCC , how many people know this ?
 
I was looking at Hebrews ch4 . How God entered into his rest on the 7th day from 6 days of creation . And the comparison of how believers enter into the rest of Salvation in Christ from dead works of the flesh . A rest in Christ . As God rested from his works .
Too make this a perpetual Sabbath is not found in the chapter . Did God never work again ? Yes of course he has so the application does not fit reality or the law . One Day God set apart , not forever resting man is to work 6 days not rest 7 . God ceased from his work of creation, and went on to other works . How about deliverance of Israel from the Egyptians for an example. Why didn’t Israel just sit in the desert for 7 days a week in the desert ? Because it’s a 1 day event in reality. And the law . As God rested from his works of creation so we as believers rest in Christ . Not elimination of the 1 Day Sabbath.actually it strengthens it . The need for rest . If you are in a perpetual Sabbath you do not get the 1 day rest needed as God designed for us . Thanks for your interest, God bless you next Sabbath day !
 
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BBerean said:
I was looking at Hebrews ch4 . How God entered into his rest on the 7th day from 6 days of creation . And the comparison of how believers enter into the rest of Salvation in Christ from dead works of the flesh . A rest in Christ . As God rested from his works .
Too make this a perpetual Sabbath is not found in the chapter . Did God never work again ? Yes of course he has so the application does not fit reality or the law . One Day God set apart , not forever resting man is to work 6 days not rest 7 . God ceased from his work of creation, and went on to other works . How about deliverance of Israel from the Egyptians for an example. Why didn’t Israel just sit in the desert for 7 days a week in the desert ? Because it’s a 1 day event in reality. And the law . As God rested from his works of creation so we as believers rest in Christ . Not elimination of the 1 Day Sabbath.actually it strengthens it . The need for rest . If you are in a perpetual Sabbath you do not get the 1 day rest needed as God designed for us . Thanks for your interest, God bless you next Sabbath day !
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Yes, everyone needs a day of rest. What no one needs is those who subscribe to dead religion to tell them what day that is.
 
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legion said:
Love God, and neighbor...
this is the greatest commandment. By doing this you fulfill the entire law.

do the will of my father....
JOHN 6:14 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day"




Post scripture saying it's valid, active and binding on gentiles christians

No where does it say that in the New covenant. In fact in the one place where the Ten Commandments are referenced get mysteriously leaves out the keep the Sabbath requirement. Jesus Paid the death penalty of the Mosaic law

Sabbath rest is now at any time in Jesus there is no set day and even if there was unless you're Jewish it doesn't apply to you

Sin is entirely possible. The law does still exist it's in our Bibles and as a Christian we use this as an historical example of how God was trying to teach us that we needed a savior


This is the mistake that Hebrew roots and Seventh-Day Adventists make and that is this: if your version of understanding is true then nobody ever sinned prior to Moses receiving the Mosaic law this is ridiculous just on the surface.

And of course it requires that you understand what the Mosaic law is who it was to what it was for and its scope.

The Mosaic law is a subset of God's laws it does not define all sin it only defines a certain set so that Israel whom the Mosaic law was given to would Stand Out Among the people and also understand how to perform the ceremonial rights to worship God.

This made Israel look separate from all the other nations

And I keep seeing this in many threads the only law a Christian follows is love God and love thy neighbor this is the law of Liberty or the law that Christ brought about by his resurrection all Mosaic law and Covenant requirements are fulfilled in this way the Mosaic law has ended it still exists but it is not binding and active we know it still exists because it's in our Bible Christians included so it will never die it will simply do what Paul explains which is Fade Into Obscurity.

by doing this one thing, love, there is no need for a 7th Day Sabbath as it is present everyday the Bible actually explains this if you would really read it
Click to expand...

I have read it for 60 years and I have found the natural mind of men can never understand God's Word, which is why there are 45,000 varieties of churches today, when Christ instituted only ONE!
And I expect by year end there will be 46,000 or more

you are missing the fact the 10 Commandments reveal to man how to love God, the first 4, and how to love man, the last 6.
I read Christ rested only on the 7th Day and made only the 7th Day Holy time.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

151 Thou [art] near, O LORD; and all thy commandments [are] truth.

172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness.

I believe God's WORD, men's never.
 
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TMS said:
Talking to literal Israel ....
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Literal Israel rejected the Messiah.
It is now a personal choice.

Paul explains it in the olive tree

We can accept Jesus and be part of the house of God or reject Jesus and be cut off.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

History is good if you can find the truth.
It isn't a popular fact so it is often hard to find.
But history shows that for 100's of years the early church had no issue about the sabbath. The early church's all kept the sabbath.
The literal Jews did not like it and pagan religions persecuted sabbath Keepers.

The change came via the Catholic church. It was their sign and mark of authority.

But the early churches kept the sabbath.
Click to expand...
Rubbish. The early church mostly met on the first day of the week, recognising that Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday. Some Jewish congregations continued to meet on Saturdays as did Eastern Orthodox. So Sunday worship was the norm before Rome got involved. Yes, Rome formalised it. That's all.
 
Inquisitor said:
Your reading Romans and ignoring the context.

There is no Jew or Gentile in heaven.

Gentiles do not become spiritual Jews.

In Romans 7, Paul is explaining to the Jews in Rome that they are no longer under the law.

Romans 7:4-6
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you
might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in
the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law,
having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in
oldness of the letter.

The Jews are not under the law having bee released from the law!

we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter
Click to expand...

Oops! Romans 1-4 indicates that Gentile believers may be viewed as true or spiritual Jews and children of Abraham.
 
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