The Age of Miracles, still going or not?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Gideon300

Ancient Mariner
Mar 18, 2021
9,746
7,403
113
Frankston, Victoria
christianlife.au
I'm old enough to remember the start of the so-called Charismatic movement in Australia. Traditionally, the baptism and the gifts of the Spirit were the domain of Pentecostalism. I can understand why non Pentecostals were dubious. My experience led me to believe Pentecostals were weird.

About 3 years after I was saved and with more experiences, I realised that there was something to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit after all. What I had seen that bothered me was with people who had gone overboard. Many of the Pentecostals I met had become proud and contemptuous of those who had yet to experience the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I could not argue with the obvious power that was lacking in traditional circles. I saw people being delivered from evil spirits. I saw miracles of healing. I had two healings in one day. The first was through a word of knowledge where the pastor described my symptoms to the letter. Then I prayed for a chronic condition that I'd suffered for years. I was full of faith because of the first healing.

It still took me 3 years to overcome my objections. Some tried to push me into it, well meaning but not at all helpful.

Christmas Eve 1974 was a significant time for many. Darwin was about to be smashed by a devastating cyclone and tornado. I did not know about it as I was on leave at the time. I remember it because that night I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was alone, no one pushed me, just me and Jesus. He is the Baptiser.

Some proponents seem to forget that the Holy Spirit is NOT Lord. His job is to empower us to witness to Jesus and the great salvation that He bought for us. This is the purpose of every spiritual gift and all revelation.

Some say that the gifts of the Spirit are not for today. They base this on Paul's statement that tongues will end and prophecies will cease. (1 Corinthians 13) They claim that the "perfect" (verse 10) has come in the form of the final cannon of scripture.

Verse 12 says, "Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face." I do not see God face to face by simply studying the Bible. So how anyone can claim that the perfect has come is a mystery to me. Lord Jesus is the Truth. He is the complete revelation of God. One day, we will see Lord Jesus face to face. All our questions will be answered, all confusion dissolved and we will know all things.

If the church was in complete unity, established in love, living in righteousness and holiness, then the cessasionists might have a point. I wish. There will be no need for gifts of prophecy in heaven. We will not need words of knowledge or wisdom there. There will be no need for miracles, healing or deliverance. Until that time, we need the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts.

A word of caution. There is much that claims to be the Holy Spirit which is counterfeit. It is relatively easy to fake signs and wonders. Someone can speak out fine sounding words that are simply what they imagine in their minds. I've heard a demon speak, pretending to be a message in tongues. We need discernment. There is no need to fear. We do need to ask God to reveal the truth to us.
 
His truth is revealed by Holy Spirit, who will not speak of His own, but what He has been given.
Holy Spirit didn't give you the thought the things of God are weird.
Problems down here are never from His end, always from down here.
He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. Every gift Jesus manifested is available to every believer.
best wishes:)(y)
 
It's always the "other guys" who are peddling lying signs and wonders. A says B are fakes; B says A are fakes. It seems like a pretty convenient way for anyone justify him or herself. Of course there's a third option: challenge both A and B to demonstrate their actual power. Then it's usually crickets.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lamar
I'm old enough to remember the start of the so-called Charismatic movement in Australia. Traditionally, the baptism and the gifts of the Spirit were the domain of Pentecostalism. I can understand why non Pentecostals were dubious. My experience led me to believe Pentecostals were weird.

About 3 years after I was saved and with more experiences, I realised that there was something to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit after all. What I had seen that bothered me was with people who had gone overboard. Many of the Pentecostals I met had become proud and contemptuous of those who had yet to experience the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I could not argue with the obvious power that was lacking in traditional circles. I saw people being delivered from evil spirits. I saw miracles of healing. I had two healings in one day. The first was through a word of knowledge where the pastor described my symptoms to the letter. Then I prayed for a chronic condition that I'd suffered for years. I was full of faith because of the first healing.

It still took me 3 years to overcome my objections. Some tried to push me into it, well meaning but not at all helpful.

Christmas Eve 1974 was a significant time for many. Darwin was about to be smashed by a devastating cyclone and tornado. I did not know about it as I was on leave at the time. I remember it because that night I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was alone, no one pushed me, just me and Jesus. He is the Baptiser.

Some proponents seem to forget that the Holy Spirit is NOT Lord. His job is to empower us to witness to Jesus and the great salvation that He bought for us. This is the purpose of every spiritual gift and all revelation.

Some say that the gifts of the Spirit are not for today. They base this on Paul's statement that tongues will end and prophecies will cease. (1 Corinthians 13) They claim that the "perfect" (verse 10) has come in the form of the final cannon of scripture.

Verse 12 says, "Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face." I do not see God face to face by simply studying the Bible. So how anyone can claim that the perfect has come is a mystery to me. Lord Jesus is the Truth. He is the complete revelation of God. One day, we will see Lord Jesus face to face. All our questions will be answered, all confusion dissolved and we will know all things.

If the church was in complete unity, established in love, living in righteousness and holiness, then the cessasionists might have a point. I wish. There will be no need for gifts of prophecy in heaven. We will not need words of knowledge or wisdom there. There will be no need for miracles, healing or deliverance. Until that time, we need the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts.

A word of caution. There is much that claims to be the Holy Spirit which is counterfeit. It is relatively easy to fake signs and wonders. Someone can speak out fine sounding words that are simply what they imagine in their minds. I've heard a demon speak, pretending to be a message in tongues. We need discernment. There is no need to fear. We do need to ask God to reveal the truth to us.

Thanks for sharing, and I am glad you were healed of something, but your last paragraph is the most important and jibes with GW in 1Thes. 5:21. As one tests claims, it is also important to distinguish between the ongoing miracle of creation and those making money from gifts.
 
The problem of Miracles in the Protestant churches is the same as the problem of false prophecy.
Which is the boy who cried wolf.

When you devalue an important topic such as Miracles, then almost nobody believes in them because of all who cry wolf, and when it happens for real it’s almost impossible for you to believe them because you’ve been lied to or disappointed too many times.

As someone who has experienced 3 major Miracles myself, nobody at my church and I mean NOBODY promised me that I would be healed and I was okay with that because I had read and heard about other major Miracles happening today and not even too long ago which are considered Mass Miracles.
I am aware that we all have to leave this body someday but when I experienced a Miracle myself … I am basically in Heaven right now because I have “seen” God.

I know this topic is something that @Carlyw asked so id like to invite her here.

God bless you all
 
It's always the "other guys" who are peddling lying signs and wonders. A says B are fakes; B says A are fakes. It seems like a pretty convenient way for anyone justify him or herself. Of course there's a third option: challenge both A and B to demonstrate their actual power. Then it's usually crickets.
What a clueless response.
None of this post communicates truthfully how the Lord works through His Own.
A warning to all to not grow in ignorance of His ways.
MC5qcGc
 
  • Like
Reactions: Edify and Eli1
I'm old enough to remember the start of the so-called Charismatic movement in Australia. Traditionally, the baptism and the gifts of the Spirit were the domain of Pentecostalism. I can understand why non Pentecostals were dubious. My experience led me to believe Pentecostals were weird.

About 3 years after I was saved and with more experiences, I realised that there was something to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit after all. What I had seen that bothered me was with people who had gone overboard. Many of the Pentecostals I met had become proud and contemptuous of those who had yet to experience the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I could not argue with the obvious power that was lacking in traditional circles. I saw people being delivered from evil spirits. I saw miracles of healing. I had two healings in one day. The first was through a word of knowledge where the pastor described my symptoms to the letter. Then I prayed for a chronic condition that I'd suffered for years. I was full of faith because of the first healing.

It still took me 3 years to overcome my objections. Some tried to push me into it, well meaning but not at all helpful.

Christmas Eve 1974 was a significant time for many. Darwin was about to be smashed by a devastating cyclone and tornado. I did not know about it as I was on leave at the time. I remember it because that night I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was alone, no one pushed me, just me and Jesus. He is the Baptiser.

Some proponents seem to forget that the Holy Spirit is NOT Lord. His job is to empower us to witness to Jesus and the great salvation that He bought for us. This is the purpose of every spiritual gift and all revelation.

Some say that the gifts of the Spirit are not for today. They base this on Paul's statement that tongues will end and prophecies will cease. (1 Corinthians 13) They claim that the "perfect" (verse 10) has come in the form of the final cannon of scripture.

Verse 12 says, "Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face." I do not see God face to face by simply studying the Bible. So how anyone can claim that the perfect has come is a mystery to me. Lord Jesus is the Truth. He is the complete revelation of God. One day, we will see Lord Jesus face to face. All our questions will be answered, all confusion dissolved and we will know all things.

If the church was in complete unity, established in love, living in righteousness and holiness, then the cessasionists might have a point. I wish. There will be no need for gifts of prophecy in heaven. We will not need words of knowledge or wisdom there. There will be no need for miracles, healing or deliverance. Until that time, we need the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts.

A word of caution. There is much that claims to be the Holy Spirit which is counterfeit. It is relatively easy to fake signs and wonders. Someone can speak out fine sounding words that are simply what they imagine in their minds. I've heard a demon speak, pretending to be a message in tongues. We need discernment. There is no need to fear. We do need to ask God to reveal the truth to us.


Some proponents seem to forget that the Holy Spirit is NOT Lord.

This is like saying that my soul is not part of my identity or who I am.

1 Cor 2:11 ESV For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Early church creed speaking of the Spirit—
Nicene Creed of AD 381 says, He is “the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.”

Some say that the gifts of the Spirit are not for today.

A word of caution. There is much that claims to be the Holy Spirit which is counterfeit. It is relatively easy to fake signs and wonders. Someone can speak out fine sounding words that are simply what they imagine in their minds. I've heard a demon speak, pretending to be a message in tongues. We need discernment. There is no need to fear. We do need to ask God to reveal the truth to us.

I truly believe the true issue of this debate is not what has ceased but what is Biblical and historical as in do much of what we hear or see today Biblical description and was it practiced in the early church.

I agree, much discernment is needed. I agree that we need the Holy Spirit empowerment but not as a 3rd baptism event.
 
This gentleman focused on the ministry of John G. Lake who had thousands of healing events to his testimony but could train others, he gives his testimony at 30 minutes of number 2. I and others are seeing many healings, and all other Holy Spirit events currently. A certain resident who shall remain unnamed has been chased by truth for years and seems to always be faster.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eli1
This is like saying that my soul is not part of my identity or who I am.

1 Cor 2:11 ESV For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Early church creed speaking of the Spirit—
Nicene Creed of AD 381 says, He is “the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.”



I truly believe the true issue of this debate is not what has ceased but what is Biblical and historical as in do much of what we hear or see today Biblical description and was it practiced in the early church.

I agree, much discernment is needed. I agree that we need the Holy Spirit empowerment but not as a 3rd baptism event.

Yes, the HS is GW, fully incarnate in God’s Son. Do not divide the Triunity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eli1
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you." John 14:16-17

We receive The Holy Spirit when we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. For it is The Holy Spirit that speaks to our hearts, convicts us of our sin and shows us our need for the Savior Jesus Christ. How much Holy Spirit do we get? All.

I had a pastor from a Four Square Church tell me that if I would just speak in tongues, I will be "closer to God" and more in tune with Him. Naturally, he could not show me any evidence of that in the scriptures.

"But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." 1 Corinthians 14:19

Have I seen miracles? Oh yes.

"Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." James 5:14-16

As an elder at my church, I have joined with other elders to annoint the willing sick and the sinner with olive oil, laying hands on them and praying for their healing. All in Jesus Name. I have seen the miracles. Oh yes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2ndTimeIsTheCharm
I believe miracles are still going on today, but more often than not greedy or irresponsible men fake them for whatever reason.

I have yet to see a place where modeen miracles took place where there are sources, though I still believe they are possible, I can not testify for them unless ive seen sources. Especially given what I have seen.

I read almost all of Kathrin Kirks book "I Believe in Miracles" and though it was very entertaining, there were no verifying sources or medical records.

I have seen much of the Charasmatic ministry online, ive been to their live chats and Ive talked to my friends. People showed up every day to get healed, and they were not healed as they were promised.

I have been in the Charasmatic church, where my pastor hosted a man who had a astounding amount of "Miracles" happen under his anointing, this man had talked to almost everyone in the Church and not one saw a miracle. Many had faith and believed in miracles to the point where they even testified it had happened, themseves claiming that they just had to walk it out in faith.

These arent miracles. There's no way.

My church had so many miracles they claimed to have seen with the church. Over the two years of me being there, I saw none. I saw many claim they happened, some fully going with that or some claiming they hadn't fully manifested.

My church was also going to Africa twice a year and staying, planting Churches and evangelizing this miraculous faith they had. Yet they didnt even believe in the true Gosple. The pastor taught that if you sin on earth youre going to hell, that you have to be perfectly in line with God by the time that you die or else you won't make it. That Jesus saves after baptism but that continuous striving must take place in order to reach perfection, other wise you can not meet God in heaven. And made miracles/works a mandate.

Whether they saw Miricles in Africa like they had claimed, I do not know. I know what I saw at my Church, but what I do know is that even if they did, they weren't even preaching the true Gosple. I am lead to believe that even if there were signs, they were not from Christ.

Then I think of Bethel church, with all of the cover up culture, shaming and rude treatment. They have genuinely faked miracles.

I Think of Benny Hinn who has lied and cheated people more often than not. He fakes miracles.

I think of Todd White, who fakes Miracles

I think of the Latter rain movement, the message cult, amongst many other historical charasmatic groups.

I have yet to see any Miracles take place in these groups, only sexual misconduct, greed, lies and other things.

Now the only Miracle I have seen in my life was when God fixed my mom's back after around two years of her being crippled. She went from being totally bed bound after a horrible fall, to being able to walk again.

I think Modern miracles exist, but that most are mislead.
 
OP do you have sources for evidence of modern day miracles I could look into?
 
It's always the "other guys" who are peddling lying signs and wonders. A says B are fakes; B says A are fakes. It seems like a pretty convenient way for anyone justify him or herself. Of course there's a third option: challenge both A and B to demonstrate their actual power. Then it's usually crickets.


Jesus often emphasized the importance of faith in the healing process, saying "Oh ye of little faith" and "Your faith has made you well"


.
 
Yes miracles and the gifts are still for today and there are many fakes out there this is true however that is how the enemy works he plants seeds of doubt with the fakes and then the real thing is usually scarce because of the unbelief that the fakes have caused within the body.

But I have seen miracles happen with prayer and not for the sake of showing but rather for the work of God to be seen and done the only thing is without faith it is not possible to please God and without faith you will never see these miracles either
 
Also, after imparting healing, "Go thy way and sin no more".

Just for clarification,

I will certainly say that every Christian I know who has had a miraculous healing has sinned after, and the healing had stayed.

I don't think Jesus was implying to never sin again, as we all will. Though we should obviously avoid sinning by leaning on Christ.

Now as a Christian, if we rely on Christ through faith, positionally all of our sins are covered as far as east to west. This means endlessly. So technically despite our failures, through faith in Christ and ideally with honest repentance through the Holy Ghost, we are sinless in Gods sight.

Just some thoughts:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Edify and Blain
Just for clarification,

I will certainly say that every Christian I know who has had a miraculous healing has sinned after, and the healing had stayed.

I don't think Jesus was implying to never sin again, as we all will. Though we should obviously avoid sinning by leaning on Christ.

Now as a Christian, if we rely on Christ through faith, positionally all of our sins are covered as far as east to west. This means endlessly. So technically despite our failures, through faith in Christ and ideally with honest repentance through the Holy Ghost, we are sinless in Gods sight.

Just some thoughts:)
I would say that our sins do not affect what is given to us through Christ not that we should be practicing sin by any means but if our sisn had the power to overide what Christ has done and given us then I don't see the point of the cross

Maybe one day I can receive healing for my eyes I have seen others receive healing but I myself have never been able to receive it in fact I have never received any miracle before I have seen others receive it though through prayer.

The cessationists do not receive because they have shut down the avenue for miracles due to their own personal doctrines but as to why some believers can receive and others not I am not sure all I know is that God is the same today as he was yesterday
 
  • Like
Reactions: Carlyw
@Carlyw ,

God has blessed you with a lot of wisdom at a young age especially in today's world full of confusion.
 
What a clueless response.
None of this post communicates truthfully how the Lord works through His Own.
A warning to all to not grow in ignorance of His ways.
MC5qcGc
[/QUOTE

]1759783620028.jpeg
If Bigfoot existed then he would not need to "believe" in us, he would simply see our existence.

Much like if the physical supernatural manifestations of the New Testament were active today.