The essential characteristics of the Biblical Jesus

[BrotherJustin]

if I am going to use this witnessing approach with muslims, I need a way to talk about it in english.

^ This is important to me, and a point I was trying to make previously.

 

[roaringkitten]

Glean anything else yet?

Jesus Christ is also the Word of God. John 6:63 as I alluded to above in post #78 demonstrates that.

 

[Dan_473]

Christ must be a deity.

Is this the only essential characteristic we've come up with so far?

actually, I think there's loads... but I didn't want to overwhelm the thread...

one starting place would be 1 cor 15... and Paul says this is very important...

"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, he was buried, he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve."

 

[BrotherJustin]

Jesus Christ is also the Word of God. John 6:63 as I alluded to above demonstrates that.

Here's a good one!

What does this mean--Jesus Christ is also the Word?

 

[Dan_473]

another essential characteristic...

someone pointed out earlier about Jesus, "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven, that is given among men, by which we must be saved."

I don't know of any books (other than the bible) considered holy by any major religion, that present this characteristic of Jesus.

 

[BrotherJustin]

another essential characteristic...

someone pointed out earlier about Jesus, "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven, that is given among men, by which we must be saved."

I don't know of any books (other than the bible) considered holy by any major religion, that present this characteristic of Jesus.

The essential characteristic I see in what you shared (Acts 4) would be: "of Nazareth" -- he is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Did you see something else or different?

 

[Dan_473]

Here's a good one!

What does this mean--Jesus Christ is also the Word?

I wouldn't want to speak for roaringkitten, but I connected it with John 1, "The Word became flesh and lived with us."

 

[roaringkitten]

actually, I think there's loads... but I didn't want to overwhelm the thread...

one starting place would be 1 cor 15... and Paul says this is very important...

"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, he was buried, he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve."

The "according to the Scriptures" is extremely important! Because it directs the source of the gospel to the Scriptures! It cannot be according to "another book". The Scriptures prove the Scriptures. The prophecy of the death, burial and Resurrection was according to the Scriptures! Fulfilled prophecies in the Bible is what distinguishes the Bible from any other book in the world. The fingerprints of God is seen in fulfilled prophecy and is what validates the Word as being true. Satan can do many lying signs and wonders(ie: 2 Thess 2:9) and a whole host of other deceptions, but the one thing he cannot counterfeit is fulfilled prophecy, because Satan is not omniscient like God is. God sees eternity at the same time, so He can make very detailed prophecies in the OT and every one of them that has come to pass, has come to pass perfectly. The Word of God testifies of itself and needs no help from the outside.

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39

No one should search the Koran, or any other book to learn of Jesus. Search the Scriptures, amen?

 

[Dan_473]

The essential characteristic I see in what you shared (Acts 4) would be: "of Nazareth" -- he is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Did you see something else or different?

true, the "Jesus *of Nazareth*" talks about a specific person, since many people are named "Jesus"... so yes, that's important...

the thing I was thinking of was that Jesus possesses the only name that can save us...

I don't think any other major holy books say that...

 

[roaringkitten]

Here's a good one!

What does this mean--Jesus Christ is also the Word?

See post #87, John 1 is what I am referring to.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." vs 1

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." vs 14

 

[BrotherJustin]

See post #87, John 1 is what I am referring to.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." vs 1

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." vs 14

Right! What does it mean for Word to become flesh? Are we talking actual words on a piece of paper?

 

[Dan_473]

The "according to the Scriptures" is extremely important! Because it directs the source of the gospel to the Scriptures! It cannot be according to "another book". The Scriptures prove the Scriptures. The prophecy of the death, burial and Resurrection was according to the Scriptures! Fulfilled prophecies in the Bible is what distinguishes the Bible from any other book in the world. The fingerprints of God is seen in fulfilled prophecy and is what validates the Word as being true. Satan can do many lying signs and wonders(ie: 2 Thess 2:9) and a whole host of other deceptions, but the one thing he cannot counterfeit is fulfilled prophecy, because Satan is not omniscient like God is. God sees eternity at the same time, so He can make very detailed prophecies in the OT and every one of them that has come to pass, has come to pass perfectly. The Word of God testifies of itself and needs no help from the outside.

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39

No one should search the Koran, or any other book to learn of Jesus. Search the Scriptures, amen?

yes, amen that "according to the Scriptures" is extremely important!

at the same time, and in some cases, I think God may lead a person to learn about what other groups think in order to talk to them about the true God.

I've studied jehovah's witness stuff for that reason... but definitely, not for new believers, and only if God leads you...


remember Paul talking on mars hill in acts 17? he quotes some greek poets that his listeners are familiar with...

 

[Dan_473]

Right! What does it mean for Word to become flesh? Are we talking actual words on a piece of paper?

excellent question! I don't really understand it myself... but yes, I don't think it means words written on paper.

my feeling is that when God said, "Let there be light"... that's the words of God... somehow, the very things that God has said took on human stuff and lived with us.

 

[Bowman]

well, an observation... it seems that your view of Jesus in the koran is based on a particular translation. is this your own personal translation, or someone else's? is it available on the web?

The authors of the Koran were early Arab Christians - thus, what do you think their view of Jesus would be?

The English translations that I show are mine, as none of the others bother to back-up their renderings with verifiable exegesis.

so... assuming it's your own personal work... take a step back for a minute... I think you can see why people would be wary.

But....

You have no issue with readily accepting the plethora of renderings out there, already.

I don't know arabic, so I'm dependent on english translators. if the koran resoundingly proclaims Jesus' deity, I think that should come through in some places in any reasonable translation.

It does.

but suppose, for the sake of discussion, that the koran refers to a Jesus who is God. imo, that still wouldn't mean he's the Jesus of the bible.

The authors who penned the Koran say that He is...and the material is lifted right from the pages of the Holy Bible.

 

[Bowman]

my comparison was not baseless. if someone else has access to more evidence, then that can be helpful.





well... since this is an internet forum, references that can be checked on the net are helpful.







I don't know what you mean here.

I thought you wrote that the book of mormon copied the kjv, and the kjv would be a book... ?

Again...

The original compare was yours.

Why do you keep wanting me to research your assertion for you?

 

[Bowman]

I would encourage all Christians to study the Bible itself to glean the essential characteristics of Jesus.

Does Jesus know the hour of His return?

 

[Bowman]

as you read it, does the koran say how Jesus died?

Of course...He was crucified until death upon The Cross, same as declared in the Holy Bible...

وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول​

الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن​

الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم​

إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا​

Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

4.157 Andtheir saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus,Mary's son,“allah's”messenger”,and that they killed him,and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him,on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.

imo, it needs to be "according to the scriptures"...

Of course.

This is mentioned as 'alkitab' (i.e. The book of Jews & Christians), in verse 4.159.

it's true that webpage doesn't give translation details. it doesn't follow that the translations are baseless.

If you can't show the translator's reasoning, then it is as good as useless...

 

[Bowman]

^ This is important to me, and a point I was trying to make previously.

You need to have a grasp of the Arabic behind the rendering for it to be beneficial.

Think of it this way....your math teacher needs to know more than just the equation that he is presenting to the students....he needs to know how the equation was derived...

 

[BrotherJustin]

You need to have a grasp of the Arabic behind the rendering for it to be beneficial.

Think of it this way....your math teacher needs to know more than just the equation that he is presenting to the students....he needs to know how the equation was derived...

Alright, so does this negate your previous statement saying that this new knowledge you've come up with is beneficial to Christians because it can help them convert Muslims to the faith? Or, are you saying that it's still beneficial--you just have to learn Arabic first?

 

[BrotherJustin]

true, the "Jesus *of Nazareth*" talks about a specific person, since many people are named "Jesus"... so yes, that's important...

the thing I was thinking of was that Jesus possesses the only name that can save us...

I don't think any other major holy books say that...

What's meant by 'possesses the only name'?
Surely we've all heard of someone with Hispanic origins named 'Jesus'--so it can't simply be the name "Jesus".