The grace of God and the Law

[pinebeach]

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The Law, Old Testament, says do and live while the grace of God says live in Christ and then do.

Grace put very simply: God's grace is greater than all our sin and Jesus died for the sins of the world. John 3:16

............................................... Grace is not earned nor kept.

....................................... For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17


Of course this op is going to be like a waving red flag to some and that's ok. The truth is still the truth and the word of God does not return to Him void.

so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

Apart from the spoken word of God, the word according to scripture, is also Jesus. Jesus is sent from God. Jesus, who absolutely accomplished all of the purposes of God and in whom we are righteous before God.

And, John testifies of this also.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John chapter 1...................................

 

[rogerg]

Apart from the spoken word of God, the word according to scripture, is also Jesus. Jesus is sent from God. Jesus, who absolutely accomplished all of the purposes of God and in whom we are righteous before God.

I completely agree with your conclusion above, and in support of that I would add my belief is that the "world" of John 3:16/17 is the world to come, not this current world

 

[timf]

The frustration Paul writes about in Romans chapter seven was from trying to keep the law using the power of his flesh. In chapter eight we read of the joy of being able to transcend the law by the power of the Spirit.

Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal_3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[GWH]

I completely agree with your conclusion above, and in support of that I would add my belief is that the "world" of John 3:16/17 is the world to come, not this current world

Heavens no! God loves His enemies too (Matt. 5:40, 44) and died to atone for everyone’s sins (1Tim. 2:3-4).

 

[TylerTaws1989]

We live in a magical planet. We reside in a part of the universe that has the fundamentals of supporting life on it. The Genesis creation and the birth of life.

 

[TylerTaws1989]

We are lucky we have this planet Earth . We live on a planet that has the fundamentals of supporting life. Intelligent life at that. The Genesis creation and the birth of life.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

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The Law, Old Testament, says do and live while the grace of God says live in Christ and then do.

Grace put very simply: God's grace is greater than all our sin and Jesus died for the sins of the world. John 3:16

............................................... Grace is not earned nor kept.

....................................... For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17


Of course this op is going to be like a waving red flag to some and that's ok. The truth is still the truth and the word of God does not return to Him void.

so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

Apart from the spoken word of God, the word according to scripture, is also Jesus. Jesus is sent from God. Jesus, who absolutely accomplished all of the purposes of God and in whom we are righteous before God.

And, John testifies of this also.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John chapter 1...................................

“The truth is still the truth and the word of God does not return to Him void.

so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11”

i agree let’s look at a few things the he said when he came forth and spoke from his mouth

I’ve actually had people who teach grace …..explain to me that Jesus word that came from his mouth and won’t return void but will be accomplished…… is to be rejected because of “ grace “
So basically I was told things like this aren’t true because “ that’s just not grace “ and I’ve found it’s a good test of grace to offer a few simple teachings of Jesus and see if the grace and truth in
them is accepted

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭

I think the issue with some folks is not Gods grace for sinners that’s promised and explained in the Bible. but rather when someone today is telling us “ those things don’t apply , God isn’t like Jesus taught in the gospel he has grace “

there’s another form of grace mentioned in the Bible that we are warned about . It becomes a license to live sinfully and unfruitfully and contrary and still receive the same outcome from the lord as if they repent and do the good of the lords will.


A good test is always to present some repetetive teachings of Jesus and see if grace erases the word of God or accepts it and sees the grace it gives sinners to be saved through mercy.

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If his word still holds true it’s the grace and truth of God if we have to reject his word and explain about grace ….. it’s not from God

 

[markss]

A good test is always to present some repetetive teachings of Jesus and see if grace erases the word of God or accepts it and sees the grace it gives sinners to be saved through mercy.

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If his word still holds true it’s the grace and truth of God if we have to reject his word and explain about grace ….. it’s not from God

I agree, this passage is a great thermometer of where someone's heart and mind is.

The difference between old and new covenants is that the old covenant, as exemplified here, "the man who does this will live by them", that is, Keep the Law, and live, while the new covenant is, believe in Jesus, receive Him, and live.

And so in this teaching, as Jesus taught the Law to those under the Law, your forgiveness from God depends on your performance. Contrast this to the believers of the new covenant, as Paul wrote, forgive others because God has forgiven you.

The first, forgive so you can be forgiven, the second, forgive because you have been forgiven.

Your choice here is whether you will recognize the dispensational distinction between the old covenant and the new covenant, and will therefore read each of these passages for exactly what each says, keeping each in it's place.

2 Timothy 2:15 LITV
Give diligence to present yourself approved to God, a workman unashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Much love!

 

[pinebeach]

I completely agree with your conclusion above, and in support of that I would add my belief is that the "world" of John 3:16/17 is the world to come, not this current world

I do not think scripture supports that conclusion, but feel free to explain why you think that.

 

[pinebeach]

The frustration Paul writes about in Romans chapter seven was from trying to keep the law using the power of his flesh. In chapter eight we read of the joy of being able to transcend the law by the power of the Spirit.

Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal_3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Certainly all we be frustrated when trying to keep a law to exhibit their own (useless) 'righteousness' and demanding others do so as well. The book of Romans has been abandoned by some of the Sabbath keepers. They will state that even Peter found it difficult to understand; concluding I guess, that it must be over their heads. BUT Peter never said to ignore Paul's letter. He said ignorant and unstable people twist it to their own destruction.

And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. (2 Peter 3:15-16 ESV)

We are justified by faith, not works and works do not keep our salvation either. I say that, as that seems to be one of the main tennents of the Sabbatarians, as the good law keeping souls they present themselves as.

 

[pinebeach]

We are lucky we have this planet Earth . We live on a planet that has the fundamentals of supporting life. Intelligent life at that. The Genesis creation and the birth of life.

Well thank you for your service. God is beyond our comprehension but we see His handiwork all around us!

 

[pinebeach]

“The truth is still the truth and the word of God does not return to Him void.

so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11”

i agree let’s look at a few things the he said when he came forth and spoke from his mouth

I’ve actually had people who teach grace …..explain to me that Jesus word that came from his mouth and won’t return void but will be accomplished…… is to be rejected because of “ grace “
So basically I was told things like this aren’t true because “ that’s just not grace “ and I’ve found it’s a good test of grace to offer a few simple teachings of Jesus and see if the grace and truth in
them is accepted

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭

I think the issue with some folks is not Gods grace for sinners that’s promised and explained in the Bible. but rather when someone today is telling us “ those things don’t apply , God isn’t like Jesus taught in the gospel he has grace “

there’s another form of grace mentioned in the Bible that we are warned about . It becomes a license to live sinfully and unfruitfully and contrary and still receive the same outcome from the lord as if they repent and do the good of the lords will.


A good test is always to present some repetetive teachings of Jesus and see if grace erases the word of God or accepts it and sees the grace it gives sinners to be saved through mercy.

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If his word still holds true it’s the grace and truth of God if we have to reject his word and explain about grace ….. it’s not from God

Well always something new to learn it seems. I've never heard that teaching about grace. Sounds wonky and kind of reverse thinking exegesis.

Appreciate your post and the fact you know the truth about the grace of God.

so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree, this passage is a great thermometer of where someone's heart and mind is.

The difference between old and new covenants is that the old covenant, as exemplified here, "the man who does this will live by them", that is, Keep the Law, and live, while the new covenant is, believe in Jesus, receive Him, and live.

And so in this teaching, as Jesus taught the Law to those under the Law, your forgiveness from God depends on your performance. Contrast this to the believers of the new covenant, as Paul wrote, forgive others because God has forgiven you.

The first, forgive so you can be forgiven, the second, forgive because you have been forgiven.

Your choice here is whether you will recognize the dispensational distinction between the old covenant and the new covenant, and will therefore read each of these passages for exactly what each says, keeping each in it's place.

2 Timothy 2:15 LITV
Give diligence to present yourself approved to God, a workman unashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree, this passage is a great thermometer of where someone's heart and mind is.

The difference between old and new covenants is that the old covenant, as exemplified here, "the man who does this will live by them", that is, Keep the Law, and live, while the new covenant is, believe in Jesus, receive Him, and live.

And so in this teaching, as Jesus taught the Law to those under the Law, your forgiveness from God depends on your performance. Contrast this to the believers of the new covenant, as Paul wrote, forgive others because God has forgiven you.

The first, forgive so you can be forgiven, the second, forgive because you have been forgiven.

Your choice here is whether you will recognize the dispensational distinction between the old covenant and the new covenant, and will therefore read each of these passages for exactly what each says, keeping each in it's place.

2 Timothy 2:15 LITV
Give diligence to present yourself approved to God, a workman unashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Much love!

“And so in this teaching, as Jesus taught the Law to those under the Law, your forgiveness from God depends on your performance. Contrast this to the believers of the new covenant, as Paul wrote, forgive others because God has forgiven you.”

Yes thisbis what I was saying people use all kinds of reasoning to exclude the teachings of Jesus Christ from his doctrine lol like you just did .

Thisbis who Jesus was teaching

“And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: and he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is what Jesus was teaching believers in him and his disciples became the apostles who he sent do this

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When you need to explain why Jesus teachings aren’t the right teachings for believers that’s just what I was saying it’s not from God if we have to reject Jesus words and say things like “ that’s not for believers it was for those under the law “ naw the law was for those under it .

jesus words are the new covenant for all humanity

See this for instance ? Paul taught this in his letters ….

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Like right here

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

( remember thisbis Paul’s letter to the Roman church )

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1, 3-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Paul’s telling them you’re going to be judged by the same measure you judge others . Sinners have no right to judge other sinners according to Jesus and his doctrine . That’s what he was saying with those types of teachings

pauo taught the same judgement according to our deeds as Jesus and the rest of the bible did .

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:7-8

This is the same this he’s been saying from the start in the ot …..Gods grace is meant for us as we are learning the doctrine of Jesus chist ehoch like I was saying people work hard exolaining why we need to not accept it like “ he was saying that to another group not us believers in the church ….. Jesus words are what’s going to judge all humanity

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Instead of telling Christian’s jesus words aren’t for them we should discuss his doctrine it’s not the law by any means moses gave the law , grace and truth of the gospel came through Christ

A lot of folks will explain why Jesus words aren’t for us to believe ….but there’s a reason my post began quoting the op here because it’s a prophecy about the promised new covenant…..and his word when he came forth
“Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.


…..so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:1, 3, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In other words ….

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.


…..“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

grace is true but it won’t work to remove the things the lord taught us to believe in the gospel …..

 

[markss]

Yes thisbis what I was saying people use all kinds of reasoning to exclude the teachings of Jesus Christ from his doctrine lol like you just did .

So which way is it? Do you forgive so God will then forgive you? OR do you forgive because God has already forgiven you?

BTW . . . I tend to gloss over the large fonts . . . old eyes, and obviously trying to force the point.

Much love!

 

[pinebeach]

“And so in this teaching, as Jesus taught the Law to those under the Law, your forgiveness from God depends on your performance. Contrast this to the believers of the new covenant, as Paul wrote, forgive others because God has forgiven you.”

Yes thisbis what I was saying people use all kinds of reasoning to exclude the teachings of Jesus Christ from his doctrine lol like you just did .

Who are you teaching? If this is your interest, maybe you could create your own thread instead of taking this one off course. I obviously had a topic in mind so why are you going off in all directions?

Paul’s telling them you’re going to be judged by the same measure you judge others . Sinners have no right to judge other sinners according to Jesus and his doctrine . That’s what he was saying with those types of teachings

yeah baloney. we are no longer sinners according to the gospel. Check out Paul's letters....we are 'saints'. You are really swinging in every direction. we most certainly do have not only the right, but the obligation to judge if something is biblical or not. you are entitled to your opinion of course, but not when actual exegesis disagrees with you.

grace is true but it won’t work to remove the things the lord taught us to believe in the gospel …..

Oh I'm glad you think grace is true cause without it, you are estranged from God.

Sounds like you think people who live by and understand God's grace also think they are free to sin. That's the impression I get from your rambling. Please stop trying to correct people here; seems you need some of that yourself if you want to go there.

smh

 

[markss]

I think some people must think that if they use a lot of annoying formatting that somehow it makes their assertions stronger.

I don't like to try to keep focusing back and forth between normal and huge fonts, and when it seems that the writter feels they need more strength to their assertions, as if they recognize the weakness. Or maybe it's a power move, I don't know. Only that it's lost on me.

So I read the parts that are normal, and tend to skim over the rest.

Much love!

 

[pinebeach]

So which way is it? Do you forgive so God will then forgive you? OR do you forgive because God has already forgiven you?

Much love!

Oh please. Don't subject us to another rambling teaching from him that just sounds like nails on a blackboard, by asking questions!

sorry....but taking an op off course is his mo

So I read the parts that are normal, and tend to skim over the rest.

I would really like to get back to the op. God's grace. I'm sorry he might find that topic boring.

 

[rogerg]

I do not think scripture supports that conclusion, but feel free to explain why you think that.

I'll give it a quick try.

1) (in no particular order) - starting with your statement:
"Apart from the spoken word of God, the word according to scripture, is also Jesus. Jesus is sent from God. Jesus, who absolutely accomplished all of the purposes of God and in whom we are righteous before God."

If, as you say, and with which I agree, that Jesus accomplished all of the purposes of God, and had God actually had sent Jesus to be Savior of this world as you believe He did, then should it and all those of it not become saved, based upon your criterion (that Jesus accomplished God's mission), in no uncertain terms His mission could not have been deemed a success because Jesus will not save this world. But we know that it was a success because God told us He was pleased with Christ. For your assessment to be correct and Christ actually be Savior of the world as the verse tells us He is, and His mission be a success, whichever world that He is the Savior of, it, and all that is in it, must become saved. That leaves only one alternative to satisfy your criterion: the world to come. Since it, and all who will inhabit it, came to it by Christ's perfect offering, were all made sinless, no longer being under God's wrath. Not so with this current world or those of it. Therefore, it could never have been the Father's will or desire for everyone (of this world) to become saved.

2) In Jhn 18:36, we were clearly told by Jesus that His kingdom is NOT of this world. That being the case, and since there are only two possible worlds, the only other choice is that world to come is His kingdom and therefore He its Savior, not this world.

[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

3) This world, and all in it, are to be destroyed by God because of its sin - sin that originated with Adam. From that sin, everything associated to it has been cursed by God. Being sin cursed as it is, in the spiritual sense, this world never had God's love but only His wrath, and because of that wrath He will and must destroy it. Should He not do so, it would mean that God is unable to destroy that which He hates or to save that which He loves - one or the other. Should that be the case, we all are in a lot of trouble indeed because His actions would contradict His word. Thankfully, Scripture clearly informs us that God meant exactly what He said that this current sin cursed world and its inhabitance are to be destroyed being under God's wrath, but the world to come alone has God's love only through Christ, and that world alone is the eternal world.

[1Jo 5:19 KJV] 19 [And] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
[Jhn 16:8 KJV]
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

[Isa 24:4-5 KJV]
4 The earth mourneth [and] fadeth away, the world languisheth [and] fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

[2Pe 3:7 KJV]
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ...

[2Pe 3:10 KJV] 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[2Pe 3:11 KJV] 11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,

[2Pe 3:12 KJV] 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

[2Pe 3:13 KJV] 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

4) God tells us in Scripture not to love this world but should we love it, that the God's love is not in us. If He told us not to love this world, then neither does He love this world, so verse John 3:16's "God so loved the world" cannot mean this world.

[1Jo 2:15-17 KJV]
15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

 

[pinebeach]

I'll give it a quick try.

1) (in no particular order) - starting with your statement:
"Apart from the spoken word of God, the word according to scripture, is also Jesus. Jesus is sent from God. Jesus, who absolutely accomplished all of the purposes of God and in whom we are righteous before God."

If, as you say, and with which I agree, that Jesus accomplished all of the purposes of God, and had God actually had sent Jesus to be Savior of this world as you believe He did, then should it and all those of it not become saved, based upon your criterion (that Jesus accomplished God's mission), in no uncertain terms His mission could not have been deemed a success because Jesus will not save this world. But we know that it was a success because God told us He was pleased with Christ. For your assessment to be correct and Christ actually be Savior of the world as the verse tells us He is, and His mission be a success, whichever world that He is the Savior of, it, and all that is in it, must become saved. That leaves only one alternative to satisfy your criterion: the world to come. Since it, and all who will inhabit it, came to it by Christ's perfect offering, were all made sinless, no longer being under God's wrath. Not so with this current world or those of it. Therefore, it could never have been the Father's will or desire for everyone (of this world) to become saved.

2) In Jhn 18:36, we were clearly told by Jesus that His kingdom is NOT of this world. That being the case, and since there are only two possible worlds, the only other choice is that world to come is His kingdom and therefore He its Savior, not this world.

[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

3) This world, and all in it, are to be destroyed by God because of its sin - sin that originated with Adam. From that sin, everything associated to it has been cursed by God. Being sin cursed as it is, in the spiritual sense, this world never had God's love but only His wrath, and because of that wrath He will and must destroy it. Should He not do so, it would mean that God is unable to destroy that which He hates or to save that which He loves - one or the other. Should that be the case, we all are in a lot of trouble indeed because His actions would contradict His word. Thankfully, Scripture clearly informs us that God meant exactly what He said that this current sin cursed world and its inhabitance are to be destroyed being under God's wrath, but the world to come alone has God's love only through Christ, and that world alone is the eternal world.

[1Jo 5:19 KJV] 19 [And] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
[Jhn 16:8 KJV]
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

[Isa 24:4-5 KJV]
4 The earth mourneth [and] fadeth away, the world languisheth [and] fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

[2Pe 3:7 KJV]
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ...

[2Pe 3:10 KJV] 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[2Pe 3:11 KJV] 11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,

[2Pe 3:12 KJV] 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

[2Pe 3:13 KJV] 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

4) God tells us in Scripture not to love this world but should we love it, that the God's love is not in us. If He told us not to love this world, then neither does He love this world, so verse John 3:16's "God so loved the world" cannot mean this world.

[1Jo 2:15-17 KJV]
15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Well that'sinteresting but you have had to do a mashup of scriptures to come to your conclusion. I prefer to stick to the op but thanks for your response. There will be a new earth and heavens, but I am referring to Jesus doing the work of His Father on this earth a few thousand yrs ago. I am not going to debate it but again, thanks for the trouble of responding.

I'm not trying to brush you off, but I just would really like to get back to my op. Thanks