The Great Tribulation Began in 70 AD and Continues to This Very Day

[HeIsHere]

The events described in Mathew 24:15-20 (A) took place during the Jewish wars with the Romans in 70AD, which was God's Judgment. The events described in Matthew 24:36-40 (B), which is yet in our future, are not a judgment of God; they are a test.

(A) Judgment ------> Jerusalem
(B) Test of faith <----- Jerusalem

Think of it this way, Both (A) and (B) can be understood from the perspective of two moments of escape: (A) is the escape FEOM Jerusalem, and (B) is the escape TO Jerusalem.

(A) Judgment
In this case, Jesus warns the people to flee Jerusalem and head into the mountains because, as Daniel says, the temple and the city will be destroyed and come to utter ruin. People are not to get their stuff from the house or come in from the fields. They should pray that their flight not be on a Sabbath.

(B) Test of faith
I call this a test of faith because that is how it is pictured in the prophets Malachi and Joel. Both of these prophets talk about fire and burning, when the entire land will be destroyed by fire. In this situation, the people are to flee their own homes in haste to travel to Jerusalem for safety. Just as in situation (A), people are not to get their stuff from the house or come in from the fields. They escape destruction by traveling to Jerusalem as fast as they can. (Isaiah also talks about fires and survivors.)

Apparently, this is the point at which Israel's enemies come to Jerusalem to wipe out the Jews once and for all. And this is when God protects her and when Jesus returns.

(A) Judgment
(B) Test of faith

I just wonder on what basis does prophecy get divided up like this >>> already happened, still needs to happen?

Let's look at Joel,
And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

This is not an instruction to flee there rather that there is deliverance there, there were survivors who survived the destruction in 70 AD.
Jesus tells the first century believers to flee from Jerusalem and they did but there were some who did not.

We can know this because Peter quoted from Joel on his sermon on Pentecost which means it was directly applicable to the times that were coming soon.

Jerusalem also burned in 70 AD.

 

[Roger316]

No ac yet
No trib yet

Jesus mentions a time of great tribulation in Matthew 24 while answering his assertion that Herod's temple would be torn down. He supplies his disciples with a signal event, the AOD, which marks the beginning of the Great Tribulation; and he supplies his disciples with a terminal event, Unusual behaviors of the Sun, Moon, and Stars, which marks the end of the Great Tribulation. We can visualize this graphically in this way.

Start: AOD
Great Tribulation
End: Celestial events. Return of the Lord

From this simple illustration we can see that the GT began in 70AD, and since the Celestial events have not yet taken place, and the Lord has not yet returned, the GT has lasted over 2,000 years.

The AntiChrist
Since the GT has not ended yet, there is still time for the man of lawlessness to appear.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I'm sorry so many of you have been lied to.

What benefit, or who would benefit from lying about the tribulation?

 

[Roger316]

I just wonder on what basis does prophecy get divided up like this >>> already happened, still needs to happen?

Good question, in my opinion. For many years I thought Jesus was talking about a single event or series of events, and I had no reason to think otherwise until I dug deeper into the prophecies concerning the Day of the Lord and Luke's account of the Olivet Discourse. Have you ever wondered why Luke seems to have split up the Olivet Discourse into two sections: Luke chapter 17 and Luke chapter 21? I did. I wondered why Luke separated the material recorded in chapter 17 from the material recorded in chapter 21.

I began to depart from my previous perspective after I understood the Lord's teaching as recorded in Luke 17. In my current view, the key verses in that section of Luke 17 are verses 22 and 30. (Luke 17:22, Luke 17:30) There will come a time, he said, that we would long to see the days of the Son of Man. He also said that the day when the Son of Man is revealed will be like the days of the Son of Noah. This suggests another time of danger, other than the time of danger associated with the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem, when "the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out."

When we review Matthew's record of Jesus' teaching, we understand that Jerusalem will experience two major events: one that requires people to escape the city, and another that requires them to flee to the city. The first event takes place 40 years after Jesus' exaltation. And the second event will take place right before he returns.

Let's look at Joel,
And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

This is not an instruction to flee there rather that there is deliverance there, there were survivors who survived the destruction in 70 AD.

Granted, but the context of Joel's first two chapters sets up the scenario. In that scenario, the land is subjected to four species of locusts, which has major religious, social, and economic effects. What is striking and very important to notice is Israel's response to this locust plague. The priests call for a holy convocation, and they call Israel to Jerusalem to pray for their nation. Eventually, God will send an army of fire that incinerates everything in its path.

The bottom line is that those who have faith in Israel, will hear the call to come to Jerusalem to pray, and their immediate act will turn out to save their lives. Those who will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Jesus tells the first century believers to flee from Jerusalem and they did but there were some who did not.

That's right.

We can know this because Peter quoted from Joel on his sermon on Pentecost which means it was directly applicable to the times that were coming soon.

Jerusalem also burned in 70 AD.

Peter quotes from the latter half of Joel, where it predicts that the Lord will pour out his spirit on all flesh. We don't know what Peter believed about the end-times timeline. Undoubtedly, he believed that the Lord would return and, perhaps, in his lifetime. The Lord was clear that he would be delayed, but I suspect that Peter didn't know that the Lord's delay would last over 2,000 years.

Peter may have thought that Joel predicted Pentecost. We can't know for sure. Peter seemed a bit uncertain when he said, "This is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel." But Peter was not talking about Joel's prediction that the people would escape the army of fire that God would send on the grazing lands of Israel.

 

[NotmebutHim]

Unless I'm mistaken, I haven't heard of or seen Jerusalem being split or all the cities of the other nations falling due to a great and powerful earthquake (cf. Revelation 16).

That's just one example.

 

[Researcher]

Hi @OMC Thanks for the comments. Let's check them out...

I'm simply asking whether the text itself makes the beast-head identifications, or whether that's the framework we're using to connect the dots.
There's a difference between seeing a pattern and proving every element of the pattern.

Speaking for myself, to get all of the heads interpreted correctly is a challenging task. I haven't seen a list in the Bible that teaches it plainly, but I am always open to hear what you or others have to offer.

What I do is use the entire Bible to make a case for each one. Relying on Daniel is not enough in my opinion.

Obviously, we have these verses which helps:

Revelation 17:9-10 (English Standard Version) - This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.

So, when John wrote Revelation, five of the heads were fallen. I am assuming that the 'one that is' is referring to the Roman Empire (aka Little Horn of Daniel 8). That is my opinion of course.

To exegete the ones that have fallen, I look at the entire Bible to see who persecuted and eslaved the Israelites as a nation and what God does with them. The first time that happened was of course the events that lead to the Exodus.

Look what we find:

Ezekiel 29:2-3 - Son of man, set thy face against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and prophesy against him, and against all Egypt: Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

The Great Dragon is a reference to Satan, i.e., the Beast. Thus, with this and other verses, we can build a case that the first head of the Beast was the King of Egypt.

Next would be Assyria. The Bible teaches us that again, Israel went through terrible times because of them. Some scholars view 'The Assyrian' as a type or prophetic foreshadow of the final Antichrist.

They connect these verses:

Isaiah 30:31-33 - For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod. And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it. For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.

With this one:

2 Thessalonians 2:8 - And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

When one takes all of the rich history of the OT and adds them up, a solid case can be made for most of the heads of the Beast, if not all of them. The one that I am still on the fence on is who the seventh head *was*. I say was because I believe he has come and gone already. Who persecuted the Jews for a short space? Hitler is a good candidate.

Again, the basic rule I go by is that these heads must be involved with severe persecution, enslavement, etc. of the Israelites and Jews. The heads are not a history lesson on individual Caesars and/or Popes as some try and make them to be.

 

[Researcher]

So tell us how do you decide if the passage is literal (plain sense of the words) or not?

I was actually going to write up a thoughtful response and answer your question, but after reading the mean and irresponsible things you said about me in another thread, I have lost any trust in you and may just put you on ignore. I have little tolerance for those who demonstrate a Jezebel spirit towards me. You have no idea who you are speaking to.

There is a reason why folks like you have tens of thousands of posts and are still here. You have never said anything Satan has to worry about. Quite the opposite actually.

Anyhow, I am done talking to you.

 

[Researcher]

Thanks @Roger316 . I am going to check out your comments. I see some good ones already.

 

[PastMyPrime]

The Great Tribulation is not something that is future, but rather something that has been ongoing now for almost two thousand years.

Just a few verses are all we need to see how this works:

Matthew 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

The Abomination was the Crucifixion. The desolation is what happened a short while later in 70 AD. That leads us to the next verse:

Matthew 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The destruction of Jerusalem was the beginning of the Great Tribulation. This is also synonymous with the 'times of the Gentiles'. Once the times of the Gentiles is over, we get to this verse:

Matthew 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The phrase 'those days' is again referring to the nearly two thousand years since the destruction of Jerusalem. After the Great Tribulation is over, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, etc. In other words, the Rapture is what we are waiting for and after that comes terrible destruction as the Man of Sin is revealed. The Mark of the Beast is of course still future as this is not a Preterist teaching, nor am I a Preterist.

Do you agree/disagree? Either way, smash that like button, be sure and hit 'subscribe' and don't forget to leave a comment in the section below.

Anyone who believes the Great Tribulation began in 70 AD is in for a rude awaking.
Yall ain't seen nothing yet!

 

[HeIsHere]

,

I was actually going to write up a thoughtful response and answer your question, but after reading the mean and irresponsible things you said about me in another thread, I have lost any trust in you and may just put you on ignore. I have little tolerance for those who demonstrate a Jezebel spirit towards me. You have no idea who you are speaking to.

There is a reason why folks like you have tens of thousands of posts and are still here. You have never said anything Satan has to worry about. Quite the opposite actually.

Anyhow, I am done talking to you.

You mean this..

Agree, not good.
Esoteric sexualized interpretation is not the meat of the word.

You mean this?

Okay, whatever.

 

[SACREDWARRIOR]

[Mat 24:21 ] – 21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

 

[Psalm1]

If the Day of the Lord were a play, the rapture would be the second act.

Jesus taught a pretrib rapture.

 

[Psalm1]

It is a common misconception that Jesus was describing the times associated with the days of Noah. But he focused not on the times of Noah, but on the fact that the Judgment came at an unexpected time, catching people off guard.

What makes the Great Tribulation great is not the intensity of the difficulty, but its duration. We know Jesus focuses on the duration of the tribulation, not its difficulty, when he says the days would be cut short.

Actually Jesus went to great lengths as to the timing of the rapture being preflood, pretib, and the setting aligns with a pretrib rapture.
A postrib rapture model has THE EXACT OPPOSITE SETTING.

 

[Komentaja]

The Great Tribulation is not something that is future, but rather something that has been ongoing now for almost two thousand years.

Just a few verses are all we need to see how this works:

Matthew 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

The Abomination was the Crucifixion. The desolation is what happened a short while later in 70 AD. That leads us to the next verse:

Matthew 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The destruction of Jerusalem was the beginning of the Great Tribulation. This is also synonymous with the 'times of the Gentiles'. Once the times of the Gentiles is over, we get to this verse:

Matthew 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The phrase 'those days' is again referring to the nearly two thousand years since the destruction of Jerusalem. After the Great Tribulation is over, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, etc. In other words, the Rapture is what we are waiting for and after that comes terrible destruction as the Man of Sin is revealed. The Mark of the Beast is of course still future as this is not a Preterist teaching, nor am I a Preterist.

Do you agree/disagree? Either way, smash that like button, be sure and hit 'subscribe' and don't forget to leave a comment in the section below.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This is why I believe it is talking about the final years before the return of Christ. It says
#1 No flesh would be saved if those days weren't shortened, that description doesn't really work for the last 2000 years when the population has never been this high. Jesus' days population was like 100 million today there are countries with more than that. We could have 90% of the entire earth population wiped out today and still have a lot of people compared to then.

#2 Notice that the days are shortened for the sake of the elect and those same elect are gathered in verse 31. This to me tells me it is a group of people living in those days, meaning it is one single generation of human beings not spanning thousands of years.

 

[Komentaja]

For many years I believed that the Great Tribulation was a future seven-year period of time. Why? Because that is what I was told to believe. One day I looked for the verse and could not find it. I still haven't found it. Spoiler alert, it doesn't exist.

I'm sorry so many of you have been lied to. It's a difficult Truth to receive. The good news is that you now have a chance to correct your mistakes and finally make some progress.

You can call it the 70th week of Daniel. You can even believe those have already been fulfilled and you could still get the 7 years from the New Testament alone.

Revelation has 42 months and 1260 days. 3,5 years plus 3,5 years equals 7. Some believe its just 3,5 years, alright, however you want to interpret it, it is a short time period, the time of Jacob's trouble at the end right prior to the second coming.

 

[Komentaja]

It is my opinion that the Rapture and the Day of the Lord happens simultaneously and unexpectedly:

1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 - For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Those who believe everything is fine because some imaginary 'seven year' or 'three and a half year' period of time has not begun will be in for a rude awakening if they are not saved.

Why do you call it "imaginary" when the 42 months / 1260 days is specifically mentioned in the book of Revelation? And the 70th week of Daniel.

 

[Researcher]

What benefit, or who would benefit from lying about the tribulation?

Great question. These verses come to mind:

Ephesians 6:11-13 - Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

The Devil and the other entities mentioned wish to confuse people so that they can get away with as much mischief as possible. The sad part is that there are many humans that go along with said entities and do their bidding. Some do it willingly, others do it without realizing it. Some do it for money. Some do it for power and control. Some do it for fame and recognition. The list goes on and on.

The so called 'Third Temple' is a prime example of how so many have fallen for the false narrative. Christians cheer on its construction because they believe Jesus will come soon after. That's actually sick behavior. Many Christians are ill right now, not understanding the evil that they are promoting. It's all extremely unbiblical. So yeah, the building of the Third Temple will benefit many evil people in terms of gaining the world in exchange for losing their soul.

 

[Researcher]

Unless I'm mistaken, I haven't heard of or seen Jerusalem being split or all the cities of the other nations falling due to a great and powerful earthquake (cf. Revelation 16).

That's just one example.

Hi @NotmebutHim . I view you examples as future as well. I think we are in agreement?

 

[Researcher]

Jesus taught a pretrib rapture.

What is kind of ironic is that we are almost in agreement in that we view the Rapture as happening sooner than later.

Does that make sense?

 

[Researcher]

#1 No flesh would be saved if those days weren't shortened, that description doesn't really work for the last 2000 years when the population has never been this high.

Thanks @Komentaja .

My argument is that the phrase 'those days' is ambiguous and can mean any length of time.