The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”
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Romans 4 must be read and understood in the wider context of the N.T.
Here is an example of a verse I use a lot, Ephesians 2:8, which by itself does not. Enable the reader to understand
the wider context. I will add two extra verses.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works,
so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared
beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Saved by grace through faith without any good works, therefore indicates an empty faith a dead faith.
Here is an example of a verse I use a lot, Ephesians 2:8, which by itself does not. Enable the reader to understand
the wider context. I will add two extra verses.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works,
so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared
beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Saved by grace through faith without any good works, therefore indicates an empty faith a dead faith.
I don't believe that physical death ends the ability of the soul to think and make decisions. FRom my perspective (FMP) Peter's relationship with God at the time of the first resurrection, and therefore, whether he was eligible for inclusion in it, would depend upon His heart regarding God and Jesus Christ at the time of the first resurrection.
Yes.
Jesus said so first.
It is an open forum and I believe we all may respond to any post. If I am mistaken please let me know.
Jesus said so first.
It is an open forum and I believe we all may respond to any post. If I am mistaken please let me know.
Romans 8:12-14
So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh
for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting
to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God,
these are sons of God.
Do you understand what Paul is saying?
When the person was believing > 50% so as to act commensurate with trust in Christ, they were abiding and they had abiding faith.
When the person stops believing > 50% so that they cease acting commensurate with trust in Christ, they have ceased to abide, and have therefore ceased to have abiding faith.
What do you make of Romans 12:1-3
Romans 12:1–3 (NKJV): 12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God deals (aorist active indicative) to each one a measure (anarthrous accusative) of faith (anarthrous genitive).
Λέγω γὰρ διὰ τῆς χάριτος τῆς δοθείσης μοι παντὶ τῷ ὄντι ἐν ὑμῖν μὴ ὑπερφρονεῖν παρ᾽ ὃ δεῖ φρονεῖν ἀλλὰ φρονεῖν εἰς τὸ σωφρονεῖν ἑκάστῳ ὡς ὁ θεὸς ἐμέρισεν μέτρον πίστεως
I see this as saying that we each have varying degrees of faith mixed with unbelief/doubt that God gives, not by pouring some commodity called faith into us, but by doing and saying things to and around us that inspire a degree of faith, and we should not overstate the degree of our faith, because God desires that we walk in truth, not mixed with any pretentiousness/hypocrisy, for a little leaven threatens to leaven the whole lump. We see examples of such pretentious hyperfaith from faith preachers who present themselves as men of great faith in God and Christ trusting 100% in Them, but who have developed such a desire for and dependency on and trust in their riches, that their faith in Christ is largely unfruitful, if one regards fruit as the fruit of the Spirit.
When the person stops believing > 50% so that they cease acting commensurate with trust in Christ, they have ceased to abide, and have therefore ceased to have abiding faith.
What do you make of Romans 12:1-3
Romans 12:1–3 (NKJV): 12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God deals (aorist active indicative) to each one a measure (anarthrous accusative) of faith (anarthrous genitive).
Λέγω γὰρ διὰ τῆς χάριτος τῆς δοθείσης μοι παντὶ τῷ ὄντι ἐν ὑμῖν μὴ ὑπερφρονεῖν παρ᾽ ὃ δεῖ φρονεῖν ἀλλὰ φρονεῖν εἰς τὸ σωφρονεῖν ἑκάστῳ ὡς ὁ θεὸς ἐμέρισεν μέτρον πίστεως
I see this as saying that we each have varying degrees of faith mixed with unbelief/doubt that God gives, not by pouring some commodity called faith into us, but by doing and saying things to and around us that inspire a degree of faith, and we should not overstate the degree of our faith, because God desires that we walk in truth, not mixed with any pretentiousness/hypocrisy, for a little leaven threatens to leaven the whole lump. We see examples of such pretentious hyperfaith from faith preachers who present themselves as men of great faith in God and Christ trusting 100% in Them, but who have developed such a desire for and dependency on and trust in their riches, that their faith in Christ is largely unfruitful, if one regards fruit as the fruit of the Spirit.
Yes. I think pan includes men.
Yes. God gave those who were God's in the days of Jesus' ministry (because they had heard and learned from the Father through the Law and Prophets), God gave them to Jesus to further instruct them in the Way prophesied in the Law and Prophets.
Yes. During the days of Jesus' ministry, God was granting people to come to Jesus by attracting them with the bait of the words and deeds He was doing through Jesus. Believers who had heard and learned from the Father were drawn to Jesus by the correspondences between Jesus word and deeds to the words and deeds predicted of messiah in the Law and Prophets. Unbelievers were attracted because of the unusual nature of the words and deeds the Father was doing through Jesus. Christ-haters were drawn to Jesus by the offensive words and deeds of Jesus, and they came out of envy to oppose and slander Him.
God's giving of particular sheep / men to Jesus occurred during Jesus' ministry. However, after Jesus resurrection He was given all authority in heaven and on earth, which means he was given all men, past present and future. Now He is drawing all men to himself. Hopef
Yes. God gave those who were God's in the days of Jesus' ministry (because they had heard and learned from the Father through the Law and Prophets), God gave them to Jesus to further instruct them in the Way prophesied in the Law and Prophets.
Yes. During the days of Jesus' ministry, God was granting people to come to Jesus by attracting them with the bait of the words and deeds He was doing through Jesus. Believers who had heard and learned from the Father were drawn to Jesus by the correspondences between Jesus word and deeds to the words and deeds predicted of messiah in the Law and Prophets. Unbelievers were attracted because of the unusual nature of the words and deeds the Father was doing through Jesus. Christ-haters were drawn to Jesus by the offensive words and deeds of Jesus, and they came out of envy to oppose and slander Him.
God's giving of particular sheep / men to Jesus occurred during Jesus' ministry. However, after Jesus resurrection He was given all authority in heaven and on earth, which means he was given all men, past present and future. Now He is drawing all men to himself. Hopef