S
Sirk
Guest
What does the passage mean to you that says..."and your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you"?
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The Role of the Woman
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What does the passage mean to you that says..."and your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you"?
S
Sirk
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S
Sirk
Guest
I don't think this is a command zoii... but it is a power struggle between man and woman as a result of the fall.
Genesis 3:14) And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 .) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 .) Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 .) And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 .) Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 .) In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20 .) And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21 .) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Reading in context...........what does it mean to you? Does it say that God forbids women to serve as Pastors/Preachers/Evangelists/Teachers? Did Eve receive a more harsh rebuke than Adam?
What about Salvation and how it changes us? Is that important to consider? Are we under the Law or Grace? Are we under the First Covenant or the New?
Galatians 3:19) Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 .) Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 .) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 .) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 .) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 .) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 .) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 .) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 .) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 .) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 .) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Once we become His children, does He see male and female, or does He see His children, and if so, is He able to purpose them for whatever purpose He has for them?
15 .) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 .) Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 .) And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 .) Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 .) In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20 .) And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21 .) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Reading in context...........what does it mean to you? Does it say that God forbids women to serve as Pastors/Preachers/Evangelists/Teachers? Did Eve receive a more harsh rebuke than Adam?
What about Salvation and how it changes us? Is that important to consider? Are we under the Law or Grace? Are we under the First Covenant or the New?
Galatians 3:19) Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 .) Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 .) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 .) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 .) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 .) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 .) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 .) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 .) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 .) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 .) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Once we become His children, does He see male and female, or does He see His children, and if so, is He able to purpose them for whatever purpose He has for them?
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ashleylovejesus
Guest
The verse Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you. -Genesis 3:16 is important. Also, 2 other verses that I have written and keep in my journal help to:
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. -Ephesians 5:22
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. -1 Timothy 2:11
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. -Ephesians 5:22
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. -1 Timothy 2:11
May I ask: If you truly believe these Scriptures, why are you posting/commenting here? Should you NOT be sitting quietly, in full submission learning from others who are men, and only read their posts/comments?
As with most all Theological debates, this simply comes down to the understanding of the Carnal Christian versus the understanding of the Spiritual Christian.
It will not be "settled" in this life, yet it was "settled" from the beginning, and all will know the Truth of this one day.
It will not be "settled" in this life, yet it was "settled" from the beginning, and all will know the Truth of this one day.
S
Sirk
Guest
As I have said to Zoii...I don't believe it is a command but it is a result of the curse. The relationship between man and woman is now a power struggle because of sin entering the world. If you hold this up in the light of Ephesians 5 it is a mutual submission and it is very interesting to me how scripture commands husbands to "love" their wives and wives to "respect" their husbands.
Think about how easy it is for men to "respect" and women to "love".... but how counterintuitive it is for women to "respect" and men to "love".....it's faith building to me that the bible knows this fact and commands husbands to "love their wives" and for wives to "respect" their husbands. I can clarify with an example if that doesn't make sense.
It makes perfect sense, and when coupled with the Scriptures from Galatians that I posted, and these two from Mark, the "glass darkly" becomes a bit more clear............or, it should.
Mark 10:7) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 .) And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
MARK: No more TWIAN, no more two separate persons, no more................GALATIANS: there is neither male nor female, for ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus...........
Anyway, as I said, this debate will reign until His return.
S
Sirk
Guest
It makes perfect sense, and when coupled with the Scriptures from Galatians that I posted, and these two from Mark, the "glass darkly" becomes a bit more clear............or, it should.
Mark 10:7) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 .) And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
MARK: No more TWIAN, no more two separate persons, no more................GALATIANS: there is neither male nor female, for ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus...........
Anyway, as I said, this debate will reign until His return.
At the risk of being accused of being a mysogynist, I am going to clarify my remarks with a personal example.
Sometimes when I come home from work my wife is all in my grill and asks me how my day went and what I did and where I went and if I had a good day and if I would fix the gate and blah blah blah. To her...this is loving..she is loving me. To me, depending on how the day went it can feel disrespectful.
On the other had....I can come home and cut a wide swath around her because it was an action packed day or whatever and to me..that is being respectful to her.. but to her...it feels unloving.
Long story short is that men need shoulder to shoulder mutual respect non emotional interaction and women need face to face totally engrossed in being a soft spot to land for all of their 50k words in a day without judgement interaction. That is the difference between respect and love...in my estimation. As a general rule...men and women are very different and as such...have different emotional needs and a happy God honoring marriage takes all that into account and mutually submits to loving and respecting each other.
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ashleylovejesus
Guest
I'm just sharing my truth and my personal beliefs that are supported by the scriptures. I should have the right to share my beliefs.
you do have the right. I don't agree with your view but that doesn't matter. Your putting your point across and your doing it nicely. Take care sis
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ashleylovejesus
Guest
S
Sirk
Guest
I think people are genuinely worried about you because marriage should never be a one/up one/down relationship. We submit to each other out of reverence for Christ....not as one person dominating the other.
I agree with you. Gen 3:16 is DESCRIPTIVE rather than INSTRUCTIVE. It DESCRIBES how the relationship between husband and wife was affected after the fall of mankind.
The whole power struggle idea between the sexes based on Gen 3:16 is a relatively new idea and interpretation of that verse. It is not the traditional interpretation of Genesis 3:16. Susan Foh introduced that interpretation in the 1970s in an effort to fight 2nd wave feminism. However, prior to that time, that was not the interpretation used or accepted by Biblical scholars and translators (MEN) for centuries.
Practical Theology for Women: A (Somewhat) Scholarly Analysis of Genesis 3:16
A Plea for the Church to Return to a Historic Understanding of Genesis 3:16 | Luma Simms
Bible translations and lexicons prior to the 1970s Susan Foh interpretation refer to DESIRE as a "longing for." The Hebrew word translated “desire” is used three times in the Old Testament: Genesis 3:16, Genesis 4:7 and Song of Solomon 7:10. In the Song of Solomon 7:10, it refers to sexual desire which is the traditional interpretation of it.
I truly believe the Message Bible translates it best:
He told the Woman: "I'll multiply your pains in childbirth; you'll give birth to your babies in pain. You'll want to please your husband, but he'll lord it over you." Gen 3:16
E
ember
Guest
My husband is NOT passive...so you can imagine the sparks...fire...kaboom...LOL! but we are both still alive
It's like the ebb and flow of the ocean...and I'm sure I read that somewhere....
He does laugh at my jokes though and has a sense of humor himself...he will never admit it, but he can be moody whereas I am not...
well anyway.......
E
ember
Guest
I would not go near a man that falls for a woman fluttering her eyelashes...further I don't want power over ANYBODY but then neither do I want that in reverse
Mutual respect and for pete's sake just LISTEN...alot of women just want to talk...they are not looking for the final solution which gives the impression you just want the woman to stop talking
My dad and I used to have the best long conversations and he would really listen and give good advice...I guess somewhere I got the idea that is how it goes
man was I wrong...
more well anyway...
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