These two losers?

[notmyown]

Do these (and other) verses not call upon us to act spiritually, and not worldly? And by extrapolation, to not be involved in worldly things, including politics? Yes we are to pray for our leaders and our country. But scripture never says to VOTE for them. Actually, scripture warns us over and over again that FALSE leaders would arise using God's Name to draw us away from His truth. Would that not include those who turn our focus on worldly remedies, instead of spiritual ones?

lol c'mon, Rick! if believers had never involved themselves in society and culture, life in our nation wouldn't have been as nice as it was for you and me, growing up. Christians were used to stop slavery (a detestable practice), build hospitals, care for orphans... i could go on but i hope you get the gist.
scripture never says to brush your teeth, either, so you'd best cease and desist. no driver's license or annual physical, either.
yeah, voting... democracy of any sort was BIG in the first century and all the ones prior to it.

the warnings you speak of are against false leaders in the church. what you're doing is using scripture out of context.

i'm not saying make politics your whole life; i don't care for it, m'self. but if every Christian stopped voting or running for office, good grief! it doesn't bear thinking of. that's just surrendering the country.

 

[Cameron143]

lol c'mon, Rick! if believers had never involved themselves in society and culture, life in our nation wouldn't have been as nice as it was for you and me, growing up. Christians were used to stop slavery (a detestable practice), build hospitals, care for orphans... i could go on but i hope you get the gist.
scripture never says to brush your teeth, either, so you'd best cease and desist. no driver's license or annual physical, either.
yeah, voting... democracy of any sort was BIG in the first century and all the ones prior to it.

the warnings you speak of are against false leaders in the church. what you're doing is using scripture out of context.

i'm not saying make politics your whole life; i don't care for it, m'self. but if every Christian stopped voting or running for office, good grief! it doesn't bear thinking of. that's just surrendering the country.

Salt is no longer good if it never gets used. And light was not created to be put under a bushel.
Christians used to be prominent in all walks of life...teachers, politicians, science, medicine...When we cede areas of endeavor to unbelievers, we are no longer salt and light in those places. Not alot of salt and light affecting decisions affecting us all right now.

 

[JTB]

I wasn't born and raised in the US mind you, but I believe they made it hard to prove one is a traitor for a reason. No?

They make it hard because they are all guilty, and to convict one of them would be to convict all of them.

That's why Epstein's client list has been quashed. Because they're ALL on it.

 

[JTB]

Exactly, and that's the point. Christ instituted human-run institutions, like church and government, and we are to be involved in both. Neglect any of them, and the enemy will fill the gap. If we're at war, ceding anything to your enemy is evil and stupid.

Jesus ceded His Life to the rulers that were against Him.

Does that make Him evil and stupid?

 

[JTB]

You are misusing those verses. None of those exhorts us to surrender governing power to our enemy-in-chief.

A spiritual soldier will not allow himself to become choked out by worldly pressures, like seed on soil choked out by thorns. This has nothing to do with allowing politics to fall into the hands of satan's people.

This is absolutely a spiritual war. But, that doesn't mean that you allow the home invader to rape your wife and murder your children, while trying to pray him away.

This, folks, is the logic used by those who would allow our governments to be run by our enemies, and forsake both our fellow citizens and future generations to awful tyrannies. Nothing says love your neighbor like that, I guess. And, this is a contributing factor to the west's crumbling culture.

You want an earthly ruler to usher in God's Kingdom

Is that the way the Bible says it's going to happen?

How did that work out for the Jews and their demand for a king?

If you think an earthly ruler will save you from the evil of the world, then you don't really need Jesus to do that, do you?

 

[JTB]

Salt is no longer good if it never gets used. And light was not created to be put under a bushel.
Christians used to be prominent in all walks of life...teachers, politicians, science, medicine...When we cede areas of endeavor to unbelievers, we are no longer salt and light in those places. Not alot of salt and light affecting decisions affecting us all right now.

So Christians voting would affect the outcome of the world ... So I guess there have been no Christians voting in the last 100 years?

Out of context? The context is that God repeatedly warned us that the world will end up in the hands of the antichrist. And that many of His people will turn away from Him because they were not prepared for that.

So your context is that 'we the people' can change that? We can thwart and put a stop to that which God has prophesied?

No, the context is that we cannot change that, and we best prepare ourselves for it, rather than fill ourselves with the false hope of changing it.

 

[Lynx]

How cheerful!

 

[JTB]

lol c'mon, Rick! if believers had never involved themselves in society and culture, life in our nation wouldn't have been as nice as it was for you and me, growing up. Christians were used to stop slavery (a detestable practice), build hospitals, care for orphans... i could go on but i hope you get the gist.
scripture never says to brush your teeth, either, so you'd best cease and desist. no driver's license or annual physical, either.
yeah, voting... democracy of any sort was BIG in the first century and all the ones prior to it.

the warnings you speak of are against false leaders in the church. what you're doing is using scripture out of context.

i'm not saying make politics your whole life; i don't care for it, m'self. but if every Christian stopped voting or running for office, good grief! it doesn't bear thinking of. that's just surrendering the country.

Christians used to follow Christian morals... like not engaging in mammon worship, not cheating workers, not abandoning the poor/sick, like welcoming foreigners, like not being self idolaters, like putting others before themselves, like loving your enemies, like not embracing lies and hypocrisy. Christians used to produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit - like love, joy, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.

It is Christian's abandonment of these principals that has caused our downfall, not the lack of Christians voting, because I can guarantee you we've been voting all along. And it's not working because, once again, we are seeking a worldly solution to a spiritual problem.

And that my friend is something you'll never achieve.

 

[JTB]

How cheerful!

No, our short-term fate is NOT cheerful. Again, God REPEATEDLY tells us the world overcomes us before we, in Him, overcome it. Not cheerful at all.

What's less cheerful is God's repeated warning that many of His will turn away from Him because they were not prepared for it.

In my book, that tells me preparation is far more important than trying to stop it. Because you're never going to stop it. You've been told that, and not by just me.

 

[HeIsHere]

Before I spend a lot of time trying to convince someone who's closed minded (no offense), would ya really consider what I had to say? Because, there's a ton of it right in front of your eyes without me having to point it out.

But I will say where his biggest traitorism (is that a word?) is with Christians. He claims to be of God, but self-idolatry, mammon worship, cheating workers, immorality, abandoning the sick/poor/foreign, and embracing lies and hypocrisies are NOT Christian values. And the fruit of the Holy Spirit? Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control? I don't see any of that going on in maga circles. Just the opposite.

The right uses their stand against abortion (the one Godly attribute they do embody) as a smokescreen to get a pass on everything else.

The left deceives the world, the right deceives believers.

And to go back to the op, neither leading candidate deserves the job. And we deserve better than either of them.

I think Trump, having so many narcissistic type behaviours is spinning out of control and desperate.

I am not sure why you and @true_believer keep harping on his lack of morals, ethics etc., it is not like you have someone better to showcase, in fact he is worse.

 

[HeIsHere]

Christians used to follow Christian morals... like not engaging in mammon worship, not cheating workers, not abandoning the poor/sick, like welcoming foreigners, like not being self idolaters, like putting others before themselves, like loving your enemies, like not embracing lies and hypocrisy. Christians used to produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit - like love, joy, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.

It is Christian's abandonment of these principals that has caused our downfall, not the lack of Christians voting, because I can guarantee you we've been voting all along. And it's not working because, once again, we are seeking a worldly solution to a spiritual problem.

And that my friend is something you'll never achieve.

Fruits of the spirit are not principles. Again you are conflating so many different concepts.

Christians who are serious about their fellowship with God are still filled with the Spirit, you keep holding up nominal Christians as the standard, that is disingenuous of you, unless you do not understand there is a difference.

 

[Lynx]

Christians used to follow Christian morals... like not engaging in mammon worship, not cheating workers, not abandoning the poor/sick, like welcoming foreigners, like not being self idolaters, like putting others before themselves, like loving your enemies, like not embracing lies and hypocrisy. Christians used to produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit - like love, joy, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.

It is Christian's abandonment of these principals that has caused our downfall, not the lack of Christians voting, because I can guarantee you we've been voting all along. And it's not working because, once again, we are seeking a worldly solution to a spiritual problem.

And that my friend is something you'll never achieve.

Maybe you need a new church.

The Christians I know haven't "abandoned these principals." Maybe you should come to our church, if you live close enough to commute. Or try to find a church near you that is like ours.

 

[Mem]

Jesus ceded His Life to the rulers that were against Him.

Does that make Him evil and stupid?

They served His purpose, however unwittingly.

 

[Mem]

It's looking like a remaking of the Jimmy Stewart classic is in process, "Mr. Trump goes to Washington."

 

[Cameron143]

So Christians voting would affect the outcome of the world ... So I guess there have been no Christians voting in the last 100 years?

Out of context? The context is that God repeatedly warned us that the world will end up in the hands of the antichrist. And that many of His people will turn away from Him because they were not prepared for that.

So your context is that 'we the people' can change that? We can thwart and put a stop to that which God has prophesied?

No, the context is that we cannot change that, and we best prepare ourselves for it, rather than fill ourselves with the false hope of changing it.

I was speaking of both Christians becoming candidates and others voting for them. And children should be raised in the fear and admonition of the Lord, and when they enter the workplace be salt and light.
Christians praying and living out their faith does change societies and bring God's blessings both to themselves and the culture at large.
It is when Christians do not engage in society that the unrighteous rule. And the end of unrighteous rule is judgment. Read Isaiah 57 and see what happens when the righteous are removed. It's not a pretty picture. Thankfully, the Lord remains merciful to His people and they prosper through judgment.

 

[JTB]

I think Trump, having so many narcissistic type behaviours is spinning out of control and desperate.

I am not sure why you and @true_believer keep harping on his lack of morals, ethics etc., it is not like you have someone better to showcase, in fact he is worse.

That is part of the problem. There is no one better to showcase. That doesn't mean we get to vote for the lesser evil.

Frankly, anyone truly qualified for the job is going to be smart enough to know they don't want it.

 

[JTB]

Fruits of the spirit are not principles. Again you are conflating so many different concepts.

Christians who are serious about their fellowship with God are still filled with the Spirit, you keep holding up nominal Christians as the standard, that is disingenuous of you, unless you do not understand there is a difference.

Oh I understand. And it's not conflation. I've had many experts over the years tell me I have a unique ability to see relationships and associations where most can't. I'm just trying to share some of that gift, but I understand that's a hard sell.

 

[JTB]

I was speaking of both Christians becoming candidates and others voting for them. And children should be raised in the fear and admonition of the Lord, and when they enter the workplace be salt and light.
Christians praying and living out their faith does change societies and bring God's blessings both to themselves and the culture at large.
It is when Christians do not engage in society that the unrighteous rule. And the end of unrighteous rule is judgment. Read Isaiah 57 and see what happens when the righteous are removed. It's not a pretty picture. Thankfully, the Lord remains merciful to His people and they prosper through judgment.

I think we are reaching the stage where we will just volley back and forth the same arguments that have already been presented, and I vowed to not do that so this may be a good spot to share blessings and move on.

But to summarize, here's where we stand:

Many believe by getting involved in worldly processes, we can change the course of the world.

I believe God has told us where this world will end up, and that preparation over prevention is His call to us.

Do what you will with that.

Blessings to you and yours in the coming year!

 

[Cameron143]

I think we are reaching the stage where we will just volley back and forth the same arguments that have already been presented, and I vowed to not do that so this may be a good spot to share blessings and move on.

But to summarize, here's where we stand:

Many believe by getting involved in worldly processes, we can change the course of the world.

I believe God has told us where this world will end up, and that preparation over prevention is His call to us.

Do what you will with that.

Blessings to you and yours in the coming year!

Thanks for the kind blessing. May it be multiplied unto you.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

You are working for the King by loving your neighbor. That includes meeting their physical as well as their spiritual needs. That would include everything from preaching to giving physical resources to voting to protesting to fasting to whatever is needed.

Too bad the early church did not get involved in the politics of the Roman Empire by protesting the misdeeds of the government of that time.

And IF we have fair a free elections if might be worthwhile to vote - that is IF we had someone to vote for that was not corrupt. Trump and Biden both are snakes! I cannot vote for either in good conscience since both are in opposition to the Lord.

Does this matter to you? It shouldn't. After all, it's not your job to worry about politics or government, right?

If you don't mind, could you worry in my behalf?

I'm not going to be stressed out about this stuff but I see many Christians are off in the political ditch all scared and worried about how politics is continually moving to the far left and godless communism is right ar5ound the corner.

Some claim the only way to fix this nation is for us to have a civil war, so if it comes to that - is this also one of our duties as a Christian to take up arms and start shooting liberals?

I can't see me getting the Lord's leading to lock and load and start shooting people, can you see the Lord leading you to do that?

After all, it might be "good" for the country to clean house, right? Some that say they are Christians are actually saying this.

Jesus touched on this topic!

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,