TRIBULATION LIE

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Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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So these are statements of our Lord about His final coming. He says nothing about any 'tribulation'.

Valiant...I don't know,,,,don't know what scriptures they are.... DO YOU?
 
G

GaryA

Guest
OK do you want to give the scripture where they came from...I guess I could probably find them but I want to be sure I am seeing the same verses you are.
Look in the quote bubbles in post #483.

:)
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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I just love it when people tell me that I have perverted scripture --- when I actually agree with them on the particular point they think I have perverted... :rolleyes: SMH

Does the phrase "quick to judge" bring any particular scriptural precepts or principles to mind...?
GaryA..... You believe the Church has to go through the tribulations. WHY???
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Nope --- verses 7-14 have their part in post- 70 A.D. history.

:)
Gary, Buddy, why do you place a 2,000 year gap between Mat 24:3-6 and 7-14? You always argue that there is no gap in Dan 9 (and you are right). Dan 9 ends with the 70 AD desolation of Jerusalem coinciding with Mat 24.

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

Jerusalem was destroyed by fire (consummation), then Titus left their city desolate. They were given 490 years to finish the transgression. Then they were given 40 years to repent and they didn't.

Back to Mat 24:7-14 How many of these things were NOT fulfilled by 70 AD. All were fulfilled, every last one of them before the Great Tribulation of Jerusalem started in 66 AD.

1. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
2. famines, pestilences
3. earthquakes in various places
4. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you
5. many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another
6. many false prophets will rise up and deceive many
7. because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold
8. he who endures to the end shall be saved
9. this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations

Then the END (of Jerusalem) will come!! The Olivet Discourse was all about the destruction of the temple and the end of the Mosaic age. It's taken me all my life to come to this conclusion.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Let me share the breakthrough translation that proves that the Olivet was all about the end of the Mosaic age and the beginning of the Messianic age. One word, incorrectly translated, has led all of us down the wrong path and it is found highlighted below. It all goes back to the question.

“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming (parousia), and of the end of the age?”

Parousia means "presence" not "coming."

So, the question really was, "...What will be the sign of Your presence (parousia), and of the end of the age (Mosaic Age)?"

The word "coming" is not there, it's presence. Look at this:

Your presence.jpg

The Kingdom of Heaven under Christ is a state, not an event. This kingdom of Christ, which will never be destroyed came with Christ and the Mosaic age ended some 40 years later. Remember what Christ said about destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days?

The opposite of Parousia is "absence", not "going." See how it is used here.

Phi 2:12: Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence (3952-parousia) only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;


It's the same word!! (3952 Parousia or presence)

Remember this:

Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

In AD 70, all that changed as the presence of Christ came back in 70 AD. He executed judgment on that wicked city, just as was foretold by multiple prophets. Thus "Parousia" is NOT a point in time, singular event. Jesus “went away” after his resurrection and he will “come again” at the parousia in a spiritual sense. His presence returned. This is what the disciples were asking about. It's our lack of understanding, our confusion. The disciples understood.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Matt 24.42, 44 when Christ comes at the end of time :)
Jesus is already here ruling the nations with a rod of iron. His presence is here, much like the presence of God, the Shekinah of God in the O.T. Now we have the "Parousia of Christ" reigning among us in His Temple (spiritual) not built with human hands. He separated the sheep nations to be blessed, from the goat nations, to be cursed. He has withheld his blessings from those atheistic and/or Muslim nations and blessed the Christian nations.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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The Shekinah was in the physical Temple at Jerusalem. Its counterpart—the parousia of Christ—would live in the new Temple (i.e., the church) during the new age (Ephesians 2:21; 1 Peter 2:5).
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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What would be the sign of the End of the (Mosaic) age? >>>>>>> Destruction of the Temple

Destruction of the Temple <<<<<< Sign of His Parousia

The Destruction of the Temple marked the end of one age and the beginning of the next age.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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Matt 24.42, 44 when Christ comes at the end of time :)
NO,,,

Go back to vs34 where he is winding up the prophecy of 70 AD... This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
38 years (a generation -same as those that wondered thru the wilderness), the temple and Jerusalem and many Israeli lives wre destroyed.

From vs 35-36 Jesus through Matt is telling us that in the end, the earth and the Heaven (1st heaven) will pass away but he shall not. no man knoweth the hour here but the father.

From vs 37-38 he is telling us about Noah and the days of Noah.

Vs 39 there is a transition from then to the future.
vs 40-141 speaks of people among people who are disappearing.
vs 42...Here he tells us to watch for the coming of the Lord because you know what hour. OK....

commentary here... At the end times. in rev. 19-22 people do not disappear. The wicked are dead and the believers will live one into the millennium. The Days of Noah tells us of time where (the sons of God) made abominations out of mankind , thus their total destruction except for three. By contrast during the GT and the second Advent, the earth is in turmoil unlike today where we have Chimeras, DNA splicing, etc being done

Conclusion: here is that Jesus is referring to the Rapture.

vs 43-51 tells that if knew the Time of the Son of Man (v.44) we would be ready but not knowing there will be those that fall away back to bad habits and will not be looking. The servant that is watching will make him a ruler and the ones who are not watching , HE will cut the servant asunder.

Speaking of the RAPTURE...if Yeah are not watching, you may be left behind. We know through scripture when the Second advent will take place and He will be seen coming throughout all the world.

Conclusion: these two verses are talking about Jesus and the RAPTURE.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

This means EVERYTHING Christ mentions before this happens to that generation, the one which crucified him.

I know, this sounds crazy. It changes everything of what we all believed. Good news, it also proves no pre-trib Rapture, LOL. The Tribulation was a long time ago.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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1/3 of the world has light, the other 2/3 live in darkness.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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NO,,,

Go back to vs34 where he is winding up the prophecy of 70 AD... This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
38 years (a generation -same as those that wondered thru the wilderness), the temple and Jerusalem and many Israeli lives wre destroyed.


So the generation which saw 'these things' had passed away by 70 ad.

From vs 35-36 Jesus through Matt is telling us that in the end, the earth and the Heaven (1st heaven) will pass away but he shall not. no man knoweth the hour here but the father
In the end He will come.

From vs 37-38 he is telling us about Noah and the days of Noah.

Vs 39 there is a transition from then to the future.
vs 40-141 speaks of people among people who are disappearing.
vs 42...Here he tells us to watch for the coming of the Lord because you know what hour. OK....
Yes He comes in judgment on the unready

commentary here... At the end times. in rev. 19-22 people do not disappear. The wicked are dead and the believers will live one into the millennium.
LOL dream on. Christ is reigning over the earth NOW (Acts 2.30-36).

The Days of Noah tells us of time where (the sons of God) made abominations out of mankind , thus their total destruction except for three. By contrast during the GT and the second Advent, the earth is in turmoil unlike today where we have Chimeras, DNA splicing, etc being done
no mention of the GT lol. This has already passed. It was great tribulation on the Jews from 70 ad onwards.

Conclusion: here is that Jesus is referring to the Rapture.
At the end of time.

vs 43-51 tells that if knew the Time of the Son of Man (v.44) we would be ready but not knowing there will be those that fall away back to bad habits and will not be looking. The servant that is watching will make him a ruler and the ones who are not watching , HE will cut the servant asunder.
all at the end of time.

Speaking of the RAPTURE...if Yeah are not watching, you may be left behind.
Where does it say some will be 'left behind'? Except to receive the immediate judgment of God.

We know through scripture when the Second advent will take place and He will be seen coming throughout all the world.
as here :)

Conclusion: these two verses are talking about Jesus and the RAPTURE.
Yes at the end of time, when the good are separated from the bad, and the good are raptured and the bad are destroyed.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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Valiant,

We almost agree on everything. The subject of the Olivet was the temple destruction, as in when will it be destroyed.

“Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”...“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?”

The "end of the age" was their present age. It isn't the end of the world. There would be an age to come, the age we are in now, the Church age or Messianic age.

"...who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.”


In our age, we who believe have ALREADY received eternal life. We will not die. Of course we die physically, but not spiritually. We are all part of the spiritual temple and Christ is our Chief Cornerstone. The temple not built with hands.

Back to the end of their age. It was discussed here too:
whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

We now know who the wheat and tares are. I had it wrong. It's the unbelieving Jews and the believing Jews. They look alike. They cannot outwardly be told apart.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

It was the feast of unleavened bread 66 AD. Jews from all over the country came to Jerusalem. Then the Romans surrounded them trapping them inside. The city swelled to 3X the normal population. They endured 3 years of great tribulation, then the city was burned down with the people inside. Those who endured to the end were saved, led away captive by the Romans.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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Jesus is already here ruling the nations with a rod of iron. His presence is here, much like the presence of God, the Shekinah of God in the O.T. Now we have the "Parousia of Christ" reigning among us in His Temple (spiritual) not built with human hands. He separated the sheep nations to be blessed, from the goat nations, to be cursed. He has withheld his blessings from those atheistic and/or Muslim nations and blessed the Christian nations.
yes we all can tell he is ruling with a fist of iron.......BUT then Maybe not just YET!
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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What would be the sign of the End of the (Mosaic) age? >>>>>>> Destruction of the Temple

Destruction of the Temple <<<<<< Sign of His Parousia

The Destruction of the Temple marked the end of one age and the beginning of the next age.

Well it seems you are using the new word very poorly....
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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yes we all can tell he is ruling with a fist of iron.......BUT then Maybe not just YET!
Hello Bladerunner,

You can assure PW that Jesus is not currently ruling with a rod of iron. It means exactly what it says. This is just more amillennial/preterist nonsense. Does it look like Jesus is ruling with a rod of iron PW? If Jesus is currently ruling the nations with a rod of iron, I'd hate to be on the earth when He is not!

He will be ruling with a rod of iron during the real millennial period when all things will be under the Lord's complete control and not a child's tea party version of it.

The world is not going to be Christianized in preparation for the return of the Lord, but is going to become worse and worse according to scripture. For the word of God states that the One who is now holding back the full force of sin and the man of sin, will continue to do so until he is removed and then the wicked one will be revealed as well as the full force of sin.
 
Jan 21, 2017
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Jesus is already here ruling the nations with a rod of iron. His presence is here, much like the presence of God, the Shekinah of God in the O.T. Now we have the "Parousia of Christ" reigning among us in His Temple (spiritual) not built with human hands. He separated the sheep nations to be blessed, from the goat nations, to be cursed. He has withheld his blessings from those atheistic and/or Muslim nations and blessed the Christian nations.
Ok this is just not true. The most 'blessed' nations from an earthly perspective ARE the very wicked atheist european nations, they are doing the best financialy and have great life expectancy, healthcare, quality of life, clean air, clean water etc.

Also if all this chaos and wickedness in the nations is Jesus ruling with a rod of iron? Wow. What a statement, back to the drawingboard with you.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Hello Bladerunner,

You can assure PW that Jesus is not currently ruling with a rod of iron. It means exactly what it says. This is just more amillennial/preterist nonsense. Does it look like Jesus is ruling with a rod of iron PW? If Jesus is currently ruling the nations with a rod of iron, I'd hate to be on the earth when He is not!

He will be ruling with a rod of iron during the real millennial period when all things will be under the Lord's complete control and not a child's tea party version of it.

The world is not going to be Christianized in preparation for the return of the Lord, but is going to become worse and worse according to scripture. For the word of God states that the One who is now holding back the full force of sin and the man of sin, will continue to do so until he is removed and then the wicked one will be revealed as well as the full force of sin.
That is true.

Jesus is not ruling with a rod of iron now,or at anytime in the past,for if He was there would be no wars,no fighting between animals or people,and the world will be at peace,for ruling with a rod of iron means it is only your way,and no other way,and Jesus does not fail.

They say the 1000 years period is spiritual,but that does not make sense,for Jesus has been ruling ever since He ascended to heaven,which is more than a 1000 years,and Jesus said all power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth,and that since He ascended.

Why would they say only a 1000 years.

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

ec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.

ze 39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
Eze 39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
Eze 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
Eze 39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

This is the millennial reign of Christ,the kingdom on earth restored to Israel,and Jesus and the saints will rule over one sixth of the world,those left of the nations,that God fought and defeated.