I agree that the apostles and first century church [even the Thessalonians in 2Th1:4] and the church which is His body [current-day] "suffer" and experience "trials and tribulations," and not His wrath. This, however, does not explain (to those denying pre-trib) why "believers/saints" (who come to faith WITHIN the [future] trib) WILL BE [existing] on the earth in the same time period in which "His wrath" is in evidence (SEALS/TRUMPETS/VIALS). And it is this, that they do not distinguish [the reasons for such]
Twinkling of an eye
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The definite article ('the') IS in the Greek, here.
See: https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/7-14.htm
See: https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/7-14.htm
Well for one, because those saints will have not been believers or ready when the Lord appears to gather the church. This is why Jesus warns everyone to believe and repent and for believers to watch and be ready, so that this day does not close on us like a trap.
"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
As a side note, the fact that the Lord states that "it will come on those who live on the face of the whole earth" demonstrates that it is not speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, but of God's world-wide wrath.
Whoever is not a believer or who is not watching or ready, will be caught in this time period. The GTS will be exposed to God's wrath simply because they were not believers prior to the Lord's appearing to gather His church. Because God's wrath will be upon the face of the entire earth, anyone here during that time will experience those plagues of wrath, simply because they are on the earth.
The following is also in reference to the GTS:
"The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months. And the beast opened its mouth to blaspheme against God and slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven. Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.
Notice that it does not say "then the beast was permitted to wage war against the church."
Forgive me if I am not understanding the question on their behalf. If not, then please make it clearer of what the issue is in a few words.
"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
As a side note, the fact that the Lord states that "it will come on those who live on the face of the whole earth" demonstrates that it is not speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, but of God's world-wide wrath.
Whoever is not a believer or who is not watching or ready, will be caught in this time period. The GTS will be exposed to God's wrath simply because they were not believers prior to the Lord's appearing to gather His church. Because God's wrath will be upon the face of the entire earth, anyone here during that time will experience those plagues of wrath, simply because they are on the earth.
The following is also in reference to the GTS:
"The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months. And the beast opened its mouth to blaspheme against God and slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven. Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.
Notice that it does not say "then the beast was permitted to wage war against the church."
Forgive me if I am not understanding the question on their behalf. If not, then please make it clearer of what the issue is in a few words.
Yes, I agree with the bulk of your post; and this where you say "because they are on the earth" (referring to those who come to faith AFTER our Rapture and IN/DURING the tribulation period).
Where Scripture says, "not appointed unto wrath" (1Th5:8-10), this speaks very specifically of [to/for/about] "the Church which is His body" (to whom the "Rapture" SOLELY pertains, not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: it does not pertain to OT saints [see Dan12:13], nor to Trib saints [Rev20:4], nor to MK saints [the Rapture will have taken place WELL-BEFORE these even come to be "born within the MK age"--those who ENTER the MK in mortal bodies [and not "raptured" off of the earth] are, of course, "the righteous"/"ye BLESSED"/only-saved-persons (not the "unrighteous/the "ye cursed"), but those born TO THEM are not "born automatically righteous"]). <--These are all distinct from "the Church which is His body" (all those saved "in this present age [singular]" [Eph1:20-23, WHEN]) and to whom "the Rapture" pertains (alone).
Where Scripture says, "not appointed unto wrath" (1Th5:8-10), this speaks very specifically of [to/for/about] "the Church which is His body" (to whom the "Rapture" SOLELY pertains, not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: it does not pertain to OT saints [see Dan12:13], nor to Trib saints [Rev20:4], nor to MK saints [the Rapture will have taken place WELL-BEFORE these even come to be "born within the MK age"--those who ENTER the MK in mortal bodies [and not "raptured" off of the earth] are, of course, "the righteous"/"ye BLESSED"/only-saved-persons (not the "unrighteous/the "ye cursed"), but those born TO THEM are not "born automatically righteous"]). <--These are all distinct from "the Church which is His body" (all those saved "in this present age [singular]" [Eph1:20-23, WHEN]) and to whom "the Rapture" pertains (alone).
Hello Wall,
All of the major translations have "the great tribulation." Even the interlinear translates it this way. Only the king James versions leave out "the" and have "great tribulation." In any case, it does not take away from the fact that a distinction is being made regarding God's coming tribulation vs. any other tribulation that has taken place.
"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened."
Though the scripture above does not have "the" preceeding it, the rest of the context reveals that this time of great tribulation will be worse than anything that has happened from the beginning of time, until now and never to be equaled again. So, if you want you want to cling to the KJV and leave out "the," it is still apparent from related scriptures and their context that this great tribulation will be unprecedented.
All of the major translations have "the great tribulation." Even the interlinear translates it this way. Only the king James versions leave out "the" and have "great tribulation." In any case, it does not take away from the fact that a distinction is being made regarding God's coming tribulation vs. any other tribulation that has taken place.
"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened."
Though the scripture above does not have "the" preceeding it, the rest of the context reveals that this time of great tribulation will be worse than anything that has happened from the beginning of time, until now and never to be equaled again. So, if you want you want to cling to the KJV and leave out "the," it is still apparent from related scriptures and their context that this great tribulation will be unprecedented.
Those who believe in the "pre-trib rapture" (as I do) do not believe its PURPOSE is merely for us to be kept out of the "tribulation period/70th-Wk/7-yrs/SEAL/TRUMPETS/VIALS," but for far MORE purposes than just that (but "to snatch-out/-away/
ἁρπαγησόμεθα harpagēsometha [G726]" can include that meaning, as well, of course: https://biblehub.com/greek/726.htm [see definition]); this involves understanding who "the Church which is His body" is, what are its unique "calling, standing, hope, privileges, and position" and WHY He will be rapturing us
, and also grasping what all "the Day of the Lord" involves (it is not merely a singular 24-hr day, and not solely the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth [at Rev19]).
[ONE purpose it will serve is that it will provide Israel a primary IMPETUS for their coming to Jesus Christ as their Messiah IN/DURING the tribulation period, following our Rapture (not ALL [100%] of them will, mind you, but those who will)]
ἁρπαγησόμεθα harpagēsometha [G726]" can include that meaning, as well, of course: https://biblehub.com/greek/726.htm [see definition]); this involves understanding who "the Church which is His body" is, what are its unique "calling, standing, hope, privileges, and position" and WHY He will be rapturing us
, and also grasping what all "the Day of the Lord" involves (it is not merely a singular 24-hr day, and not solely the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth [at Rev19]).[ONE purpose it will serve is that it will provide Israel a primary IMPETUS for their coming to Jesus Christ as their Messiah IN/DURING the tribulation period, following our Rapture (not ALL [100%] of them will, mind you, but those who will)]
Those who believe in the "pre-trib rapture" (as I do) do not believe its PURPOSE is merely for us to be kept out of the "tribulation period/70th-Wk/7-yrs/SEAL/TRUMPETS/VIALS," but for far MORE purposes than just that (but "to snatch-out/-away/
ἁρπαγησόμεθα harpagēsometha [G726]" can include that meaning, as well, of course: https://biblehub.com/greek/726.htm [see definition]); this involves understanding who "the Church which is His body" is, what are its unique "calling, standing, hope, privileges, and position" and WHY He will be rapturing us , and also grasping what all "the Day of the Lord" involves (it is not merely a singular 24-hr day, and not solely the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth [at Rev19]).
[ONE purpose it will serve is that it will provide Israel a primary IMPETUS for their coming to Jesus Christ as their Messiah IN/DURING the tribulation period, following our Rapture (not ALL [100%] of them will, mind you, but those who will)]
ἁρπαγησόμεθα harpagēsometha [G726]" can include that meaning, as well, of course: https://biblehub.com/greek/726.htm [see definition]); this involves understanding who "the Church which is His body" is, what are its unique "calling, standing, hope, privileges, and position" and WHY He will be rapturing us
, and also grasping what all "the Day of the Lord" involves (it is not merely a singular 24-hr day, and not solely the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth [at Rev19]).[ONE purpose it will serve is that it will provide Israel a primary IMPETUS for their coming to Jesus Christ as their Messiah IN/DURING the tribulation period, following our Rapture (not ALL [100%] of them will, mind you, but those who will)]
not only to keep the church from the 70th week of daniel and allow God to move focus to israel, but what else?
I had woven some of it into that other thread where you and I were discussing eschatology-issues... your question here just makes me wonder if you only read (what I put there) surfacely and superficially?? (I don't really want to have to re-type all of that, or even enough of it to convey the points... I'm a terribly slow typist! Hunt and peck is all I can seem to manage! )
(I don't really want to have to re-type all of that, or even enough of it to convey the points... I'm a terribly slow typist! Hunt and peck is all I can seem to manage! )The Bible says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, so when a saint dies they are with Jesus, for there is no need to visit the underworld first like the Old Testament saints, for they were not saved until Jesus died on the cross, and not even John the Baptist was saved during his whole time on earth, even though Jesus said born of women there has not been a greater than John the Baptist, but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than him, for John was not saved until after he died when Jesus died on the cross, so John went to the underworld first.
When we die we are with Jesus for we are saved, and no need to visit the underworld.
In Revelation 6 it says that there are souls under the altar in heaven asking when will Jesus avenge them, and He said when the saints that are going through tribulation are caught up to with them.
When the saints are gathered unto Christ, those that remain on earth that the beast is persecuting, for he makes war against the saints, and prevails against them, and they are given in to his hands for three and one half years, or 42 months, they will be caught up to be with Jesus, which is why the Bible says the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ from earth until there is a falling away first, the world in response to the Gospel, for the nations came together and stopped the preaching of the Gospel worldwide, and the man of sin is revealed, then the saints on earth can be gathered unto Christ.
When the saints are gathered unto Christ, they will go to heaven, for then there is a time period where the wrath of God is poured upon the heathen leading up to the battle of Armageddon, which is when the world attacks Israel for God brought them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.
Which the Bible says that when they attack Jerusalem, the Jews, that the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Him.
Which He steps on the Mount of Olives, and fights the world, and destroys the man of sin with the brightness of His coming, which the people that fought against Israel their flesh shall melt off their bones, which is why the Jews run in to the split of the Mount of Olives that God stands on to shield them from the brightness.
Which Jesus was standing on the Mount of Olives, and was caught up, and the 2 men in white apparel that were there said that Jesus will return in the same manner that He ascended, so He will come back and stand on the Mount of Olives.
Which Joel 3 says that God fights the world, and thither cause thy mighty ones to come down O LORD.
Which in Revelation 19 Jesus will come from heaven, and fight the world, and the saints come with Him.
So the saints have to be caught up and be with Jesus for a while to come back with Him all in glorified bodies, before they rule on earth.
As soon as they are caught up those that remain on earth, and they are all with Jesus, they do not dwell on earth for a little while, but are in heaven until God's wrath is poured upon the world.
Which from the time the daily sacrifice happens, until the abomination is set up is 1290 days, but they are given in to the beast's hands for 1260 days, three and one half years, so there is 30 days over the 1260 days there.
And then blessed is the Jew that waits until the 1335 days from the time of the daily sacrifice being taken away, which is another 45 days which must be when Jesus saves them at the battle if Armageddon.
So it appears when the saints are gathered unto Christ there is 75 days, or 2 and a half months before the saints are on earth again, so the saints when they are caught up in the twinkling of an eye are going to heaven first, before they dwell on earth again for the millennial reign of Christ.
But the millennial reign of Christ is not the New Jerusalem, but this heaven and earth shall pass away when the millennial reign is over.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:5 and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
The saints would have to go to heaven first for a while to come back with Jesus when He fights the world.
When we die we are with Jesus for we are saved, and no need to visit the underworld.
In Revelation 6 it says that there are souls under the altar in heaven asking when will Jesus avenge them, and He said when the saints that are going through tribulation are caught up to with them.
When the saints are gathered unto Christ, those that remain on earth that the beast is persecuting, for he makes war against the saints, and prevails against them, and they are given in to his hands for three and one half years, or 42 months, they will be caught up to be with Jesus, which is why the Bible says the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ from earth until there is a falling away first, the world in response to the Gospel, for the nations came together and stopped the preaching of the Gospel worldwide, and the man of sin is revealed, then the saints on earth can be gathered unto Christ.
When the saints are gathered unto Christ, they will go to heaven, for then there is a time period where the wrath of God is poured upon the heathen leading up to the battle of Armageddon, which is when the world attacks Israel for God brought them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.
Which the Bible says that when they attack Jerusalem, the Jews, that the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Him.
Which He steps on the Mount of Olives, and fights the world, and destroys the man of sin with the brightness of His coming, which the people that fought against Israel their flesh shall melt off their bones, which is why the Jews run in to the split of the Mount of Olives that God stands on to shield them from the brightness.
Which Jesus was standing on the Mount of Olives, and was caught up, and the 2 men in white apparel that were there said that Jesus will return in the same manner that He ascended, so He will come back and stand on the Mount of Olives.
Which Joel 3 says that God fights the world, and thither cause thy mighty ones to come down O LORD.
Which in Revelation 19 Jesus will come from heaven, and fight the world, and the saints come with Him.
So the saints have to be caught up and be with Jesus for a while to come back with Him all in glorified bodies, before they rule on earth.
As soon as they are caught up those that remain on earth, and they are all with Jesus, they do not dwell on earth for a little while, but are in heaven until God's wrath is poured upon the world.
Which from the time the daily sacrifice happens, until the abomination is set up is 1290 days, but they are given in to the beast's hands for 1260 days, three and one half years, so there is 30 days over the 1260 days there.
And then blessed is the Jew that waits until the 1335 days from the time of the daily sacrifice being taken away, which is another 45 days which must be when Jesus saves them at the battle if Armageddon.
So it appears when the saints are gathered unto Christ there is 75 days, or 2 and a half months before the saints are on earth again, so the saints when they are caught up in the twinkling of an eye are going to heaven first, before they dwell on earth again for the millennial reign of Christ.
But the millennial reign of Christ is not the New Jerusalem, but this heaven and earth shall pass away when the millennial reign is over.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:5 and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
The saints would have to go to heaven first for a while to come back with Jesus when He fights the world.
Ok..all very confusing, so how long we in heaven for or is it a brief stay and then go back to earth. Or are we away for 1000 years. You know a lot of us actually dont live in the envrions of the land of Israel, or amageddon where its said the wrath will be poured out, so, am not sure what the whole being caught up part means. But wrath is not the same as tribulation...what would be tributlation to believers will be wrath for unbelievers surely. Cos didnt the israelites get out of egypt? They had triubulation in that the egyptians worked them hard, and then when the plagues hit the egyptians it DID NOT TOUCH any of the israelites. And they were still in egypt at the time!
If someone could do a network diagram of the events of revelation maybe we could all understand it.
Its a bit strange that God will do one thing then another, with two separate groups. i thought the whole purpose of the resurrection was so that we would ALL be together...all believers, jew and gentile.
If someone could do a network diagram of the events of revelation maybe we could all understand it.
Its a bit strange that God will do one thing then another, with two separate groups. i thought the whole purpose of the resurrection was so that we would ALL be together...all believers, jew and gentile.
God is not a man as us.
Christ lives in us, we reign with him. When he left he made it clear that even though some did know him after what the eyes see (flesh) that the one time demonstration is over.(2 Corinthians 5:16)
What is meant by when he returns? Returns to where, he is already dwelling in us that are reigning with Him ?
We are in the last days they began at the renting of the veil, the time of reformation. almost two thousand literal years ago
He will come on the last day the same day he executes judgment on those who have no faith ,the second death, never to rise to new spirt life forever more. The same twinkling of the eye that we will receive our new bodies which will not be after the corrupted rudiments of a dead creation. Corruption will not put on a new layer of incorruption .But will be new to the core. Nothing second hand.
The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind.
Six times in the book of John the Holy Spirit is indicating the timing, in the twinkling of the eye, for both the believer to receive the reward and unbeliever to receive the execution of the judgment on the Last day . the day of the lord. the end of his work that he di begin us. .
John 6:39And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them to eternal life at the Last Day.
John 6:40For it is my Father’s will that everyone who sees his Son and believes on him should have eternal life—that I should raise him at the Last Day.”
John 6:44For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him to me, and at the Last Day I will cause all such to rise again from the dead.
Rise again …...First ressurection, the resurrection of our new born again spirit that will never die .And rising again to the receiving of our newly created bodies which knows one knows what they will be like.
John 6:54But anyone who does eat my flesh and drink my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him at the Last Day.
John 11:24“I know,” said Martha, “that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
John 12;48 Every man who rejects me and will not accept my sayings has a judge—at the last day, the very words that I have spoken will be his judge.
Christ lives in us, we reign with him. When he left he made it clear that even though some did know him after what the eyes see (flesh) that the one time demonstration is over.(2 Corinthians 5:16)
What is meant by when he returns? Returns to where, he is already dwelling in us that are reigning with Him ?
We are in the last days they began at the renting of the veil, the time of reformation. almost two thousand literal years ago
He will come on the last day the same day he executes judgment on those who have no faith ,the second death, never to rise to new spirt life forever more. The same twinkling of the eye that we will receive our new bodies which will not be after the corrupted rudiments of a dead creation. Corruption will not put on a new layer of incorruption .But will be new to the core. Nothing second hand.
The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind.
Six times in the book of John the Holy Spirit is indicating the timing, in the twinkling of the eye, for both the believer to receive the reward and unbeliever to receive the execution of the judgment on the Last day . the day of the lord. the end of his work that he di begin us. .
John 6:39And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them to eternal life at the Last Day.
John 6:40For it is my Father’s will that everyone who sees his Son and believes on him should have eternal life—that I should raise him at the Last Day.”
John 6:44For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him to me, and at the Last Day I will cause all such to rise again from the dead.
Rise again …...First ressurection, the resurrection of our new born again spirit that will never die .And rising again to the receiving of our newly created bodies which knows one knows what they will be like.
John 6:54But anyone who does eat my flesh and drink my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him at the Last Day.
John 11:24“I know,” said Martha, “that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
John 12;48 Every man who rejects me and will not accept my sayings has a judge—at the last day, the very words that I have spoken will be his judge.
Jesus, in His earthly ministry BEFORE death, was in the role of "Prophet" (see Acts 3:22-23,26 [all of this speaking to His earthly ministry BEFORE His death ('raise up unto you'/'having raised up [that is, to a position of prominence BEFORE His death] His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you [Israel]...'], and parallels, like Acts 7:37)... and yet He said He Himself (at the time He spoke the Olivet Discourse) did not "know [perfect tense]" something, where it says "But of that day and hour" (the context being that which pertains to His Second Coming to the earth and the commencement of the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, promised to Israel) "knoweth [perfect tense] no man [not even He Himself]..." But it is this very thing that He LATER discloses in the LATER (95ad) The Revelation (Rev1:1 - "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [Jesus], TO SHEW UNTO His servants [...the future aspects of the Book...] which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]..." (and which things CONCLUDE with His Second Coming to the earth, per Rev19 [including specific time-stamps and time-related correlations]); and...
Jesus had indeed said (in John 16:12-15) "I have YET MANY THINGS to say unto you, BUT..." and John 7:39 says "(… for the Spirit was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
And then 1Cor2:7-8 says,
7 But we [NT apostles and prophets] speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
It was necessary for God to keep some things hidden/unrevealed/undisclosed until AFTER Jesus' crucifixion.
[note: ...and what thing Jesus didn't "know" during the time of His earthly ministry BEFORE His death, He later disclosed further information regarding THAT very subject ("knoweth" was in the PERFECT TENSE; this does not mean that no one WILL ever know, or CAN ever know: I believe JESUS has known ever since His ascension and has disclosed further information regarding that subject, in the later(-written) Scripture]
Jesus had indeed said (in John 16:12-15) "I have YET MANY THINGS to say unto you, BUT..." and John 7:39 says "(… for the Spirit was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
And then 1Cor2:7-8 says,
7 But we [NT apostles and prophets] speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
It was necessary for God to keep some things hidden/unrevealed/undisclosed until AFTER Jesus' crucifixion.
[note: ...and what thing Jesus didn't "know" during the time of His earthly ministry BEFORE His death, He later disclosed further information regarding THAT very subject ("knoweth" was in the PERFECT TENSE; this does not mean that no one WILL ever know, or CAN ever know: I believe JESUS has known ever since His ascension and has disclosed further information regarding that subject, in the later(-written) Scripture]
Yup. Your right garee.
1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -
ZEPH. 1 – voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -
ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
No doubt about it. Both scriptures are speaking of the same event. Both scriptures speak of what happens on the Day of the Lord.
1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -
ZEPH. 1 – voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -
ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
No doubt about it. Both scriptures are speaking of the same event. Both scriptures speak of what happens on the Day of the Lord.
But really alls ya gotta do is keep reading the so called rapture scripture and youll find its on the Day of the Lord
1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 THES. 5 [1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [2] For yourselves know perfectly that THE DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night. [3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION cometh upon them, as travail upon a WOMAN WITH CHILD; and they shall not escape.
Doesn’t [1Thes.5] explain to us that [1Thes.4] takes place on The Day of the Lord? There is no scriptural gap between the above scriptures. 1Thes.5 directly follows 1Thes.4 verse 18. There were no chapters and verses when 1Thes was written. It clearly says that the goins on of 1Thes.4 takes place on the Day of the Lord. The day of the Lord takes place after the tribulatuion.
Thes. scriptures---women with child—V.16 resurrection---sudden destruction—Day of the Lord
Isaiah26-----------women with child----V.19 resurrection---punish earthlings-----Day of the Lord
ISAIAH 26 [17] Like as a WOMAN WITH CHILD, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord. [18] We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. [19] THY DEAD MEN SHALL LIVE, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. [20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, UNTIL THE INDIGNATION BE OVERPAST. [21] For, behold, THE LORD COMETH OUT OF HIS PLACE TO PUNISH THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH FOR THEIR INIQUITY: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Isaiah 26 Verse 19. The dead in Christ shall rise first {1Thes.4v16}.
1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 THES. 5 [1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [2] For yourselves know perfectly that THE DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night. [3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION cometh upon them, as travail upon a WOMAN WITH CHILD; and they shall not escape.
Doesn’t [1Thes.5] explain to us that [1Thes.4] takes place on The Day of the Lord? There is no scriptural gap between the above scriptures. 1Thes.5 directly follows 1Thes.4 verse 18. There were no chapters and verses when 1Thes was written. It clearly says that the goins on of 1Thes.4 takes place on the Day of the Lord. The day of the Lord takes place after the tribulatuion.
Thes. scriptures---women with child—V.16 resurrection---sudden destruction—Day of the Lord
Isaiah26-----------women with child----V.19 resurrection---punish earthlings-----Day of the Lord
ISAIAH 26 [17] Like as a WOMAN WITH CHILD, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord. [18] We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. [19] THY DEAD MEN SHALL LIVE, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. [20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, UNTIL THE INDIGNATION BE OVERPAST. [21] For, behold, THE LORD COMETH OUT OF HIS PLACE TO PUNISH THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH FOR THEIR INIQUITY: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Isaiah 26 Verse 19. The dead in Christ shall rise first {1Thes.4v16}.