Two category's that must be kept separate JUSTIFICATION - SANCTIFICATION

[homwardbound]

For anyone following this thread, Jesus Himself warned that the New Covenant cannot be poured into Old Covenant wineskins (Matt 9:16–17), yet that is exactly how SabbathBlessing has framed his entire reply. Jesus said the Law & the Prophets ended with John the Baptist (Lk 16:16), marking a covenantal shift that the apostles later affirmed publicly in Acts 15, where they ruled that placing the Sinai law on believers ""troubles"" & ""subverts their souls"" (Acts 15:24), that the law was a yoke no one could bear (Acts 15:10) & that salvation is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, not through Moses (Acts 15:11).

Paul then applies that ruling with full apostolic force in Gal 5, declaring that anyone who makes law keeping a condition for salvation has ""fallen from grace"" (Gal 5:4), that Christ becomes ""of no benefit"" to them (Gal 5:2) & that mixing law with grace is a different gospel (Gal 1:6–9).

In 2 Corinthians 3, Paul goes even further: he calls the very tablets engraved by God's finger ""the ministry of death"" (2 Cor 3:7) & that the New Covenant is the ministry of the Holy Spirit, not the ministry of stone/law (2 Cor 3:6–8). So when someone tries to make Sinai covenant rules the structure of salvation, they're not defending Scripture, they're rejecting Jesus' warning, overturning the apostles' ruling & placing themselves on the wrong side of the very gospel the New Testament defends. The New Covenant runs on the Holy Spirit, not the tablets of stone/law.

Adding to see Hebrews 7:11-12 thank you fro your post, in truth God loves us all time to repent, change mind and trust God no matter what, thank you

 

[Nedsk]

I disagree
Sin absolutely carries consequences in a believers life. Broken relationships, sickness, loss of joy, protection hedges removed etc. But none of those consequences include the loss of salvation. Scripture is clear that the only unforgivable sin is lifelong unbelief, dying without faith in Christ (Jn 8:24). Paul even says that where sin increases, grace SUPER ABOUNDS (Rom 5:20). God's grace is greater than any believer failure. Sin's penalty is death, but Christ has already borne that penalty once for all (Rom 6:23 & Heb 10:12–14).

A believer's sin can bring discipline & loss of heavenly reward (Heb 12:5–11 & 1 Cor 3:14–15), but it cannot undo the finished work of Christ or the eternal life He GIVES by grace. The love & grace of our great God & Savior far surpass the power of sin. Amen

You can't change recorded scripture: HOLY SPIRIT an ETERNAL LIFE SEALED GUARANTEE
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Also see Mat 3:11, Lk 3:16 & Jn 1:33)

2 Tim 1:14 Refers to the Holy Spirit as a Good Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Deposit or Pledge.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's good deposit given us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a deposit/pledge. In modern Greek arrabona is an "engagement ring.")

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & SEAL, until the soon coming day of our final redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: You heard about Christ's finished sin redemptive payment & resurrection. When you believed/trusted, Christ sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for us)

Just more of the same. You don't pay attention. It's sad actually

 

[Nedsk]

In regard to eating His flesh and drinking His blood, Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63) As Jesus was accustomed, He used figurative language to emphasize these spiritual truths.

Jesus is not speaking of cannibalism here, but believing in Christ, as He makes abundantly clear by repeating the same truths both in metaphoric and plain language.

Compare for example the following verses:

John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

John 6:58 - He who eats this bread will live forever.

“He who believes” in Christ is equivalent to “he who eats this bread” and the result is the same, eternal life.

The parallel is also seen in verses 40 and 54:

John 6:40 - Everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 - Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6 does not support the false doctrine of transubstantiation. On the contrary, it is a statement on the primacy of faith as the means by which we receive the grace of God. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him unto salvation.

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.

Three times Jesus says eat my flesh drink my blood. I can listen to him or to you. Hmmm give me a second

 

[Nedsk]

Please read the entire post response before responding to me in any thought that takes place while reading, pleas read it all first thank you

The entire salvation is a gift from Father by through risen Son. The death was the reconciliation first. as Jesus proclaimed "it is finished " John 19:30 Then the risen Life, where the new life resides.

What is finished ? Under Law to attain perfection is finished, not one other person could ever do it perfect, but Son. Jesus did it, it is done once for Everyone to beleive it or not, between God and you personally. You are trying to be perfect, I thank you for wanting this. Yet repenting over and over again and again. How you doing in that? 2 Cor 10:5-6, So you perfect yet? Neither is anyone else but Father and Son for us.

It is not about taking this given truth freedom for granted, as the Corinthians did, until they heard the letter written to them from Paul. then they sincerely repented as said in 2 Cor 7. Still not perfect, yet stopped harming others to their own self gain as did harm others without a care at first. As many today are still doing this using the Gospel for self gain! Are you? Out for self and those you only choose to love?. Accusing, excusing and end up abusing and not seeing it. What did King David repent of? 2 Samuel 12? A man after God's own heart!
Do you have others you hate over stuff they did wrong to you and or others you love? Then, you do not get this reconciliation, you are not willingly dead to self or others you love, hating others over it, as if you are right and the others are wrong, according to the place of worship you attend maybe?. The true church is in Heaven and it is the called The Ecclesia, not the Church as is Called, by human flesh today on earth. Hebrews 8:1-4 is the true
Ecclesia, in Heaven, where we are at in Father's Spirit and Truth for us. Those that Father reveals this to, and Daddy will, to each in the time allotted or them to see its truth, then thanking Father won't stop.
Done first ( by his willing death, 2 Cor 5:17-21, reconciliation) through Son. that was the first thing that had to be done was reconciliation to all mankind, All mankind includes female. Then the resurrected Son for us to be new. Daddy, given this a gift from Father, thanks to the done work of Son for us all, to believe, receive and be new in love and mercy to all. John 13:34

After Son was risen from the dead and seen by the disciples and over 500 witnesses. The new life is in the resurrected Son raised to life by Father for us all to stop and see new, in love and mercy to all too. Thus one does the new given them by Father without taking any credit to self at all. If Father, Dad, PaPa, does not get all the credit, then the work done is of flesh. And no flesh after Son's flesh pleased God can ever please God. No other flesh will Romans 8:1-3
Rom2:1-4 Stop accusing, excusing and abusing each other
See it is Father that teaches , not people, even though people do that and yet do not see truth over error here in this world still. People usually are out for self gain here on earth, which is not a well thing for my soul ever. 1 John 2:27
thanks love and mercy to all from Father and Son as Won for us all

I don't read all that because I read Scripture. If you can't accept that I don't read all that you write then you're completely free to never reply to me again. I wish you well if that's your choice but if you continue to reply to me you are now aware of the conditions under which you reply.

Having said all that I'll explain why I don't read all that. The primary reason is no one has, as of yet, been able to show evidence that their understanding of Scripture is authoritative. Are you able to offer such evidence? If you do I'd be more inclined to read everything you write but until then I'm not compelled to do so.

 

[mailmandan]

Three times Jesus says eat my flesh drink my blood. I can listen to him or to you. Hmmm give me a second

So, you choose to ignore what Jesus said in John 6:63, along with John 6:47; John 6:58 and John 6:40; 6:54 and go with CANNIBALISM?

 

[Nedsk]

So, you choose to ignore what Jesus said in John 6:63, along with John 6:47; John 6:58 and John 6:40; 6:54 and go with CANNIBALISM?

Jesus says THE flesh not HIS flesh. Jesus just got done telling you to eat his flesh but you want to ignore that. Jesus said believe but you don't believe him when he says three times, eat my flesh and drink my blood. Again Jesus is clear john 6:61 Does this shock you? Clearly you are very shocked. Not me if Jesus says do it I do it while screech about cannibalism. It's s tired trope that is rendered meaningless by Scripture.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus says THE flesh not HIS flesh. Jesus just got done telling you to eat his flesh but you want to ignore that. Jesus said believe but you don't believe him when he says three times, eat my flesh and drink my blood. Again Jesus is clear john 6:61 Does this shock you? Clearly you are very shocked. Not me if Jesus says do it I do it while screech about cannibalism. It's s tired trope that is rendered meaningless by Scripture.

In context, Jesus is talking about HIS flesh. Jesus clarifies that literal, physical consumption offers no spiritual profit, rather His words are spirit and life. Jesus is distinguishing between the physical (flesh) and the spiritual. Anyone would be shocked about CANNIBALISM, except for Roman Catholics who subscribe to the false doctrine of transubstantiation.

 

[Nedsk]

In context, Jesus is talking about HIS flesh. Jesus clarifies that literal, physical consumption offers no spiritual profit, rather His words are spirit and life. Jesus is distinguishing between the physical (flesh) and the spiritual. Anyone would be shocked about CANNIBALISM, except for Roman Catholics who subscribe to the false doctrine of transubstantiation.

Nonsense. You're shocked by the teaching just like Jesus asked. Of course you are because you don't actually believe Jesus. Verse 65 "This is why I told you no can come to me unless it is granted to him by my Father." Time for you to hear the truth friend, it hasn't been granted to you. Everyone in that discourse knows Jesus is speaking literally except you. It would be hilarious if it wast sad.

 

[FlyingDove]

Just more of the same. You don't pay attention. It's sad actually

I disagree
Sin absolutely carries consequences in a believers life. Broken relationships, sickness, loss of joy, protection hedges removed etc. But none of those consequences include the loss of salvation. Scripture is clear that the only unforgivable sin is lifelong unbelief, dying without faith in Christ (Jn 8:24). Paul even says that where sin increases, grace SUPER ABOUNDS (Rom 5:20). God's grace is greater than any believer failure. Sin's penalty is death, but Christ has already borne that penalty once for all (Rom 6:23 & Heb 10:12–14).

A believer's sin can bring discipline & loss of heavenly reward (Heb 12:5–11 & 1 Cor 3:14–15), but it cannot undo the finished work of Christ or the eternal life He GIVES by grace. The love & grace of our great God & Savior far surpass the power of sin. Amen

You can't change recorded scripture: HOLY SPIRIT an ETERNAL LIFE SEALED GUARANTEE
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Also see Mat 3:11, Lk 3:16 & Jn 1:33)

2 Tim 1:14 Refers to the Holy Spirit as a Good Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Deposit or Pledge.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's good deposit given us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a deposit/pledge. In modern Greek arrabona is an "engagement ring.")

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & SEAL, until the soon coming day of our final redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: You heard about Christ's finished sin redemptive payment & resurrection. When you believed/trusted, Christ sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for us)

 

[FlyingDove]

Jesus warned not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments quoting directly from the Ten Commandments Mat5:19-30 and when we lay aside the commandment of God again quoting from the Ten Commandments makes ones heart far from Him Mat15:3-14 so we can't make one teaching of Jesus contradict another one.

You're taking this verse out of its context. This is not about all prophets and the law of God ending. Jesus made that plain in literally the next verse

Luke 16:16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Heaven and earth are still here, so is God's law.

This passage is about the prediction of Jesus coming - why it was until John. What happened after John the Baptist? Jesus came and started preaching the gospel

Repent (from sin) for the Kingdom of God is at hand Mat4:17


The law Paul is speaking of is found in the very first verse

Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Not of any of the commandments of God, as if only worshipping God, or using His name in a holy way, not murdering our neighbor, is a "yoke of bondage"

What this is really saying that the works of God Exo32:16 the Ten Commandments, written by God, God's Testimony Exo31:18 is bondage and bad works. People do not really understand what they are saying and why reading Scripture in context is so important.

So the law Paul is speaking about is the law of God that God wrote with His finger that starts with only worship Him and in doing so, one will fall from grace?

This is not at all what Paul is saying- I can't help but wonder if Scripture is really being studied or just looking at verses in isolation to make a narrative.

In this same passage Paul says this...

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul is not speaking about the Ten Commandments as the law if keeping one falls from grace. This is actually a very sad teaching because its not just an attack on the law, but the law Giver who said for those who love Me, keep My commandments Exo20:6 John14:15

What Paul is correcting and did in Galatians if reading in context Gal3:2 same with Acts Acts 15:1 was the system of animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins to be saved after Jesus died on the Cross who removed the wall of separation of circumcision with His death. Now no longer needed to be circumcised to gain access to the cure for sin by going to an earthy temple, to an earthy priest with an animal that could never really remove sin Heb10:1-10 this is what Paul was correcting. This was after the death of Christ and in doing so, makes His death in vain.


Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,


Paul was never teaching people to sin by breaking the law of God and now its okay to worship other gods, use His name in vain, bow to idols, break His holy Sabbath, dishonor our parents, murder, steal ,lie. I am not sure if people even think a moment about what they are teachings.




We really should be careful using Paul out of context to teach against the commandments of God. He would be horrified what people have done to His writings- He made it clear breaking the Ten Commandments is sin Rom7:7 dishonoring God Rom2:21-23, makes one an enmity against God Rom8:7-8 and one ends up outside of heaven Gal5:19-21 just as Jesus taught Mat7:21-23 Heb10:26-30

2Cor3:7 is speaking of the ministration, the wages of sin is death Rom6:23 so quite plainly by this passage 2Cor3:7 we know breaking the Ten Commandments is sin. There is no death penalty for keeping the Ten Commandments, only for breaking them. Jesus now ministers from a heavenly Temple, where there is still the Ten Commandments under His mercy seat Exo25:21 Exo31:18 Deut 4:13 Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19 or atonement seat. The law itself was never the issue, the law is perfect Psa19:7 holy, just and good Rom7:12 the issue is our sinful flesh that makes one not subject to the law of God Rom8:7-8. If we are under the ministry of the Spirit and are connected to Christ, there is no condemnation because we are keeping the commandments through our love, faith and the power of the Holy Spirit John14:15-18 Rom8:4 John15:10 its when we take our eyes off Jesus and start depending on self, we will fail every time.

Paul very plainly said the Ten Commandments went from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 just as God said "His laws" that only He can define now written in the mind so we know and do them, written in the heart because we want to do them because we love Him Heb8:10 and enabled to keep though the power of the Holy Spirit if we love Him John14:15-18 and cooperate with Him, sadly not everyone does Rom8:7-8

What's being promoted here is not the New Covenant, not apostolic teaching & not the gospel of Jesus Christ Paul preached. It's a system that tries to drag the Sinai covenant into the New Covenant & then insists that the tablets of stone must remain the structure of salvation. Scripture won't allow that. Jesus said the New Covenant cannot be poured into Old Covenant wineskins (Matt 9:16–17). The apostles publicly ruled in Acts 15 that putting the Sinai law on believers ""troubles & subverts their souls"" (Acts 15:24), that the law was a yoke no one could bear (Acts 15:10) & that salvation is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, not through Moses (Acts 15:11).

Paul calls the stone‑tablet ministry ""the ministry of death"" (because it's purpose was to administer death) & ""the ministry of condemnation"" (because its purpose was to condemn) (2 Cor 3:7–9) He contrasts it with the Holy Spirit's ministry, which is the New Covenant. Any doctrine that tries to make the 10 Commandments the covenant structure for salvation is not defending God's law. It is rejecting the apostolic ruling, ignoring the covenantal shift Jesus announced, & places believers back under the very system Paul says has passed away (2 Cor 3:11).

The New Covenant does not run on stone; it runs on the Holy Spirit. It does not run on external commandments, it runs on internal regeneration. It does not run on Sinai, it runs on Calvary & it does not produce righteousness by law‑keeping; it produces righteousness by God's once‑for‑all verdict over the ungodly who believe (Rom 4:5).

My thread is about keeping the categories where Scripture puts them: justification as God’s unchanging legal declaration & sanctification as the Holy Spirit's ongoing work. Blending those categories always leads back to works‑salvation, & the New Testament calls that ""another gospel"" (Gal 1:6–9). The New Covenant is Christ centered, Spirit powered & grace- driven, not Sinai resurrected.

 

[mailmandan]

Nonsense. You're shocked by the teaching just like Jesus asked. Of course you are because you don't actually believe Jesus. Verse 65 "This is why I told you no can come to me unless it is granted to him by my Father." Time for you to hear the truth friend, it hasn't been granted to you. Everyone in that discourse knows Jesus is speaking literally except you. It would be hilarious if it wast sad.

I'm not shocked by Jesus' teaching because I know He was not teaching CANNIBALISM (unlike those confused folks who called it a hard saying and walked with Him no more) and I certainly do believe Jesus. Literal CANNIBALISM is ridiculous and it's time for you to hear the truth and believe Jesus.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

What's being promoted here is not the New Covenant, not apostolic teaching & not the gospel of Jesus Christ Paul preached. It's a system that tries to drag the Sinai covenant into the New Covenant & then insists that the tablets of stone must remain the structure of salvation. Scripture won't allow that. Jesus said the New Covenant cannot be poured into Old Covenant wineskins (Matt 9:16–17). The apostles publicly ruled in Acts 15 that putting the Sinai law on believers ""troubles & subverts their souls"" (Acts 15:24), that the law was a yoke no one could bear (Acts 15:10) & that salvation is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, not through Moses (Acts 15:11).

Paul calls the stone‑tablet ministry ""the ministry of death"" (because it's purpose was to administer death) & ""the ministry of condemnation"" (because its purpose was to condemn) (2 Cor 3:7–9) He contrasts it with the Holy Spirit's ministry, which is the New Covenant. Any doctrine that tries to make the 10 Commandments the covenant structure for salvation is not defending God's law. It is rejecting the apostolic ruling, ignoring the covenantal shift Jesus announced, & places believers back under the very system Paul says has passed away (2 Cor 3:11).

The New Covenant does not run on stone; it runs on the Holy Spirit. It does not run on external commandments, it runs on internal regeneration. It does not run on Sinai, it runs on Calvary & it does not produce righteousness by law‑keeping; it produces righteousness by God's once‑for‑all verdict over the ungodly who believe (Rom 4:5).

My thread is about keeping the categories where Scripture puts them: justification as God’s unchanging legal declaration & sanctification as the Holy Spirit's ongoing work. Blending those categories always leads back to works‑salvation, & the New Testament calls that ""another gospel"" (Gal 1:6–9). The New Covenant is Christ centered, Spirit powered & grace- driven, not Sinai resurrected.

Who wrote the Ten Commandments? Lets start there.

Who determines the law of God- God or man?

Did God's standard of righteousness only start in the NT or is it eternal like He says. So why would God give the people in the OT a different standard of righteousness than the people in the NT? Is it a different God? Is He not a respecter of person? Rom2:11

 

[Nedsk]

I disagree
Sin absolutely carries consequences in a believers life. Broken relationships, sickness, loss of joy, protection hedges removed etc. But none of those consequences include the loss of salvation. Scripture is clear that the only unforgivable sin is lifelong unbelief, dying without faith in Christ (Jn 8:24). Paul even says that where sin increases, grace SUPER ABOUNDS (Rom 5:20). God's grace is greater than any believer failure. Sin's penalty is death, but Christ has already borne that penalty once for all (Rom 6:23 & Heb 10:12–14).

A believer's sin can bring discipline & loss of heavenly reward (Heb 12:5–11 & 1 Cor 3:14–15), but it cannot undo the finished work of Christ or the eternal life He GIVES by grace. The love & grace of our great God & Savior far surpass the power of sin. Amen

You can't change recorded scripture: HOLY SPIRIT an ETERNAL LIFE SEALED GUARANTEE
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Also see Mat 3:11, Lk 3:16 & Jn 1:33)

2 Tim 1:14 Refers to the Holy Spirit as a Good Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Deposit or Pledge.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's good deposit given us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a deposit/pledge. In modern Greek arrabona is an "engagement ring.")

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & SEAL, until the soon coming day of our final redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: You heard about Christ's finished sin redemptive payment & resurrection. When you believed/trusted, Christ sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for us)

Volume=correct. ^^^^^ Faulty premise faulty outcome.

 

[Nedsk]

I'm not shocked by Jesus' teaching because I know He was not teaching CANNIBALISM (unlike those confused folks who called it a hard saying and walked with Him no more) and I certainly do believe Jesus. Literal CANNIBALISM is ridiculous and it's time for you to hear the truth and believe Jesus.

That's right he wasnt but his words are his words. You've decided he can't mean what she says not me. Paul also tells you that Jesus meant what he said but you ignore that too. If you don't listen to either of them you sure as heck won't listen to me. Have you ever noticed how you folks spend more time trying to explain away things rather than just believing things. It's so fascinating how I always hear from you people that the words in Scripture only mean what you tell me they mean and do so with no evidence that your understanding of Scripture is authoritative.

 

[homwardbound]

I don't read all that because I read Scripture. If you can't accept that I don't read all that you write then you're completely free to never reply to me again. I wish you well if that's your choice but if you continue to reply to me you are now aware of the conditions under which you reply.

Having said all that I'll explain why I don't read all that. The primary reason is no one has, as of yet, been able to show evidence that their understanding of Scripture is authoritative. Are you able to offer such evidence? If you do I'd be more inclined to read everything you write but until then I'm not compelled to do so.

Okay, thank you for being honest with me

To each thier own as we all have free choice to choose. I only desired to not be misquoted. Mis quotes fro me happen with one, anyone does not read the entire post thanks no more replies.
I did do one reply before reading this one, so no more, love you and thank you

 

[Nedsk]

Okay, thank you for being honest with me

To each thier own as we all have free choice to choose. I only desired to not be misquoted. Mis quotes fro me happen with one, anyone does not read the entire post thanks no more replies.
I did do one reply before reading this one, so no more, love you and thank you

I certainly get misquoted all the time which is why I don't write lengthy wordy replies very often. Indi run away, I simplify what I'm saying. Scripture says what it says. I find lots of people have to use three times the number of words to tell me why Scripture doesn't mean what it's saying. May God bless you

 

[GWH]

I certainly get misquoted all the time which is why I don't write lengthy wordy replies very often. Indi run away, I simplify what I'm saying. Scripture says what it says. I find lots of people have to use three times the number of words to tell me why Scripture doesn't mean what it's saying. May God bless you

Yes, Scripture says what it says, but the problem is understanding what it means.
In this case is "eating flesh and drinking blood" meant litereally or figuratively/symbolically?
John 16:25 indicates the latter interpretation is correct; it means memorializing his atonement.

 

[Nedsk]

Yes, Scripture says what it says, but the problem is understanding what it means.
In this case is "eating flesh and drinking blood" meant litereally or figuratively/symbolically?
John 16:25 indicates the latter interpretation is correct; it means memorializing his atonement.

I agree that for a time in John 6 Jesus is speaking figuratively/symbolically until he gets to verse 51

"I am the living bread (figuratively/symbolically) that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread(figuratively/symbolically) will live forever(figuratively/symbolically) and the bread(figuratively/symbolically) that I will give is my flesh(literal), for the life of the world.

He then goes on four times to refer to eating his flesh and drinking his blood, one of those times is to say they are real food and real drink. After verse 51 everyone understands Jesus to be speaking literally. In verse 61 Jesus asks "Does this shock you?" Why would.snyone be shocked by his speaking figuratively/symbolically?

And are you suggesting John 16:25 refers to everything Jesus said? Is that really your argument?

 

[GWH]

I agree that for a time in John 6 Jesus is speaking figuratively/symbolically until he gets to verse 51

"I am the living bread (figuratively/symbolically) that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread(figuratively/symbolically) will live forever(figuratively/symbolically) and the bread(figuratively/symbolically) that I will give is my flesh(literal), for the life of the world.

He then goes on four times to refer to eating his flesh and drinking his blood, one of those times is to say they are real food and real drink. After verse 51 everyone understands Jesus to be speaking literally. In verse 61 Jesus asks "Does this shock you?" Why would.snyone be shocked by his speaking figuratively/symbolically?

And are you suggesting John 16:25 refers to everything Jesus said? Is that really your argument?

John 16:25 is after John 6, but even in that chapter John 6:63 indicates that verse 61 chided the disciples
for not understanding that Jesus was speaking metaphorically/allegorically.
I agree that some/much of what Jesus said including John 6:51 is literal.

 

[Nedsk]

John 16:25 is after John 6, but even in that chapter John 6:63 indicates that verse 61 chided the disciples
for not understanding that Jesus was speaking metaphorically/allegorically.
I agree that some/much of what Jesus said including John 6:51 is literal.

No one in that exchange in john 6 after verse 51 thinks Jesus is speaking figuratively/symbolically. He was before the but definitely not after. Jesus triples down on the literal language