Two useless/inappropriate/wrong accusations

[BrokenSparrow]

I don't know if what helped me will help you or not, but it might, so I'll tell you how I got past that repeating cycle of trying harder, failing, then depression, then back to trying harder.

I gave up on trying to be good. I went through that cycle for so many years and finally one day I said: it's impossible. I can't do it. If it's going to be done - if I am ever going to be good as I so desperately want to be, YOU will have to do something. And if you don't, I will just remain this way, because I am just wicked inside.

And I don't know why this is so, but after I just saw it was beyond my power to change and I said He would have to do it, I began to have great victories over my anger, depression, snottiness, etc.

Afterwards, I realized that I fully understood that being saved was only by trusting Him but what I had not understood was that being made more holy and good was ALSO only by trusting Him.

Thank you. That was very helpful. I think I am at the place you were and I have just reached my wits end with myself. I guess I just need to try to do what you did and just turn it all over and take it out of my own hands.

Thank you and thanks to the others that replied as well. I am new to this site. I don't really understand exactly how it works so I hope I didn't cause an interruption in this thread. I have just been battling these feelings for so long and needed to get it off my chest. I thought it kind of went along with what you guys were talking about, though. I'm going to keep reading this thread and site because you guys have already helped me so much.

 

[eph610]

The bible never says my spirit was made perfect. It says I was made perfect. It said i was dead in trespasses and sins, yet I was made alive in Christ, and given his righteousness..

I would not read more in it than what the word says. That is what causes so much confusion,

We agree to disagree here.....this is what is causing the confusion more than anything else. It is not worth friendships or causing others to trip to continue...blessings

 

[Gr8grace]

This is part of the disconnect and confussion. I view man as a 3 part being, Man is a Spirit who has a soul[mind, will, emotions, passions, intellect, etc] who lives in a body...The Spirit is made perfect at conversion and our Spirit wars with the Soul for control of the body[flesh]

We agree[are you reading gr8grace] that total surrender is not required for salvation, so sorry If I was confusing on that.

We may agree or disagree on this. After someone says they are saved and who NEVER has evidence they have surrendered any part of their life to Jesus, most likely was mental assenting to the message of Jesus, or expressed worldly sorrow and not godly sorrow that leads to salvation and not truly had a heartfelt repentance....

I am hoping our disconnect gets straightened out...

I am afraid it isn't getting straight. I heard this spin and talk for over 10 years and was caught WAY up in it.


Why didn't you answer my question. I straight forwardly answered yours.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Interesting - this is probably true for all of us to a certain extent - probably different phrases just get us spooked (or maybe angry, or reactive?)

For me - I am so sick and tired of seeing "hyper-grace" I can hardly read the threads anymore - like you I probably don't understand the term and really don't feel like finding out anymore!

What to do? Maybe honest and be OK with one another . . .

In glory, I hope I can sit down with you and hear your story from beginning to end - I am really curious why these phrases cause a reaction for you.

They don't exactly cause a reaction for me...I don't jump up and down and scream about people being liars, heretics, unsaved, for using the terms. But I don't understand the terms - (or didn't until pennEd rephrased one of them for me this morning) - so that I would just skip the posts of people who kept repeating the phrase, most often. But it's because I just explain them differently or understand things differently. I don't see myself as "trusting in Jesus' finished work" so much as I see myself trusting that He will complete in me the good work He began in me." And where others say or think: I am perfect, I think or say: He is perfecting me and making me more and more like Him.

 

[Chester]

Thanks, You just proved you teach a works based salvation. For you claim a believer can be worthy to be saved. And if this is so. Then he has earned salvation.

Try to deny it, there you have it in your own words.

He said no such thing! (my opinion!)

 

[LaurenTM]

this thread sure is moving right along...for better or worse

this joke puts me in mind of 'state of the art Christianity'

read the joke...you might understand why...or not.....


A man is telling his neighbor, "I just bought a new hearing aid.

It cost me $4000, but it's state of the art. It's perfect."

"Really?" answers the neighbor. "What kind is it?"

"12:30."

 

[Gr8grace]

this thread sure is moving right along...for better or worse

this joke puts me in mind of 'state of the art Christianity'

read the joke...you might understand why...or not.....


A man is telling his neighbor, "I just bought a new hearing aid.

It cost me $4000, but it's state of the art. It's perfect."

"Really?" answers the neighbor. "What kind is it?"

"12:30."

Now that was cute!

 

[Grace777x70]

Thank you. That was very helpful. I think I am at the place you were and I have just reached my wits end with myself. I guess I just need to try to do what you did and just turn it all over and take it out of my own hands.

Thank you and thanks to the others that replied as well. I am new to this site. I don't really understand exactly how it works so I hope I didn't cause an interruption in this thread. I have just been battling these feelings for so long and needed to get it off my chest. I thought it kind of went along with what you guys were talking about, though. I'm going to keep reading this thread and site because you guys have already helped me so much.

All is well! The Lord is showing you the truth about His grace and love for you.

Here is an article I just got in my email about how this guy had the same feelings about whether he was saved or not. ( funny how things like this happen at just the right time... )

I like to use this website because at the bottom of the article you can ask questions. If you have any - ask away and others from all over the world are doing the same thing.

Click on this link below in blue...

https://escapetoreality.org/2016/10/13/how-do-i-know-im-saved/

 

[Chester]

You are absolutely right. No one ( that I have seen ) is saying even remotely what some are "seeing" in what people are seemingly saying.

I am saying the complete opposite. I am saying "look to Jesus and what He has already done". His life in us will transform us as we grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are a new creation in Him and we have now a new heart. He is in our heart. Our new heart is not evil. Christ lives in our new heart and we are one with Him.

We have explained the difference out many times in the past to Peter and he still says the complete opposite of what is being said which is why some of us have him on ignore. His mindset does not compute what is really being said as he "re-constructs" things in his mind and then proceeds to attack them as if they are real.

I have tried many different ways to express truths but they were all met with being called a heretic, demonic, false teacher, that we are delusional..etc.

I just post what I believe and I will let the Holy Spirit speak to all of us where we are at in our individual journeys with the Lord which we are joined as one with. He will be faithful to us in all things...

May I appeal for Peter?

I seem to come from a background and circumstances similar - I can identify with where he is coming from -
Putting him or me on "ignore" won't help us grow . . .

And if you put him or me on ignore we can't help you all grow . . . : )

iron sharpens iron

I also understand that if someone is an imposter, stubborn, and heretic, you have to cut them off sometime -- you make the decision . . .

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Lauren made me get coffee in my sinus cavity...

 

[eph610]

I am afraid it isn't getting straight. I heard this spin and talk for over 10 years and was caught WAY up in it.


Why didn't you answer my question. I straight forwardly answered yours.

I happen to think the people you were under are false teachers and always have and for decades, so please don't lump me in with your mistakes and lack of true discernment that left you bound for over 10 years....that is solely on you....My Parents came out from hirelings just like those guys in the early 80's.....so I was well prepared agaisnt their doctrines of devils decades ago...

I believe that very few really understand Jesus's statement, "Depart from me, I never KNEW you.....

If you believe that you can sit idly buy and not grow spiritually and never surrender things to Jesus and still be known by him, go for it.....if being a pew warmer with a changed heart, yet love to live like hell, is your best for Christ ,and you believe he will honor that...knock yourself out and preach on...


We don't do a thing in regards to our salvation....it is his finished work....

 

[LaurenTM]

Lauren made me get coffee in my sinus cavity...

oooooo...snorting caffeine straight to the brain!

I must try that some time...LOL!

 

[Gr8grace]

I happen to think the people you were under are false teachers and always have and for decades, so please don't lump me in with your mistakes and lack of true discernment that left you bound for over 10 years....that is solely on you....My Parents came out from hirelings just like those guys in the early 80's.....so I was well prepared agaisnt their doctrines of devils decades ago...

I believe that very few really understand Jesus's statement, "Depart from me, I never KNEW you.....

If you believe that you can sit idly buy and not grow spiritually and never surrender things to Jesus and still be known by him, go for it.....if being a pew warmer with a changed heart, yet love to live like hell, is your best for Christ ,and you believe he will honor that...knock yourself out and preach on...


We don't do a thing in regards to our salvation....it is his finished work....

Won't answer the question Huh? Telling, very telling indeed.

 

[Chester]

And there you have it, In black and white. It does not matter what anyone says, Peter is God and he knows our hearts, So he gets to say who is right and who is wrong.

The reality is, He has predetermined he is right, and everyone else is wrong. Thus it does not matter what anyone says to him, If he does not agree, we are in error. No matter how much proof one gives.

Ach! It looks like it doesn't it?? Maybe it is so . . .

I would have said the same thing about ______ and ________ and _________ on this forum, that is - "It does not matter what anyone says - they think they are God, they have predetermined what is right, and everyone else is wrong . . . "

I am sitting back and really trying to listen and understand and am coming to realize we are all so very different and jump to conclusions too quickly!

 

[PennEd]

This is something that has always confused me. How people believe differently on this issue. I was taught that salvation can be lost because of how we treat it. According to our works or deeds. That is what scares me because I can't seem to quit sinning no matter how hard I try. I just keep on failing. I don't want to sin and feel so guilty over it. I'm afraid that God will not keep forgiving me and I really can't even forgive myself.

You're honesty and heart is refreshing and beautiful sister!
I'm telling you so many of us, certainly myself included, have been in your position or thought pattern.
One of the verses that helped me much,put on me by the Holy Spirit I'm sure, was Jesus saying that He would NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU.

So I asked myself, did I truly believe that Jesus is who He says He is? So I believe He rose from the grave after dying for my sins 3 days later?
YES! YES! I BELIEVE!
Well, if that's the case, then I am His, and He will NEVER LEAVE ME!
Consequently, those thoughts and feelings of condemnation, are from the enemy. Designed to steal my joy and discipleship.

Realizing ALL of that, I was able to finally stop decades long sinful behavior that ALL my trying and fretting about couldn't even dent.
Dear Lord, please let Your Grace, and Love, and Your Son be the only thing that fills our hearts and minds, along with Your peace that passes all understanding. In Jesus sweet Name I pray.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He said no such thing! (my opinion!)

point taken.


my point still stands for reason stated.

 

[eph610]

Won't answer the question Huh? Telling, very telling indeed.

I answered your question alright......you just heard 12:30

 

[Gr8grace]

I answered your question alright......you just heard 12:30

Originally Posted by eph610
So once again I will ask you and you will refuse to answer, is it OK to be saved and not be totally surrendered to Jesus Christ and what he wants from you?



I would never refuse to answer that. Why would you think that?

No it would not be ok. One would have SHAME face to face with the Creator of everything, who loves unconditionally. And they pissed away everything that he prepared for them in ADVANCE.

But they are still saved. Just naked and shining shoes,happily, for those who advanced and lived the Christian way of life.


Now.....you answer. Would your religion have that person in the LoF or with their Savior?

 

[Chester]

They don't exactly cause a reaction for me...I don't jump up and down and scream about people being liars, heretics, unsaved, for using the terms. But I don't understand the terms - (or didn't until pennEd rephrased one of them for me this morning) - so that I would just skip the posts of people who kept repeating the phrase, most often. But it's because I just explain them differently or understand things differently. I don't see myself as "trusting in Jesus' finished work" so much as I see myself trusting that He will complete in me the good work He began in me." And where others say or think: I am perfect, I think or say: He is perfecting me and making me more and more like Him.

Thanks! Well-explained.

 

[BrokenSparrow]

You're honesty and heart is refreshing and beautiful sister!
I'm telling you so many of us, certainly myself included, have been in your position or thought pattern.
One of the verses that helped me much,put on me by the Holy Spirit I'm sure, was Jesus saying that He would NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU.

So I asked myself, did I truly believe that Jesus is who He says He is? So I believe He rose from the grave after dying for my sins 3 days later?
YES! YES! I BELIEVE!
Well, if that's the case, then I am His, and He will NEVER LEAVE ME!
Consequently, those thoughts and feelings of condemnation, are from the enemy. Designed to steal my joy and discipleship.

Realizing ALL of that, I was able to finally stop decades long sinful behavior that ALL my trying and fretting about couldn't even dent.
Dear Lord, please let Your Grace, and Love, and Your Son be the only thing that fills our hearts and minds, along with Your peace that passes all understanding. In Jesus sweet Name I pray.

Thank you. That was comforting and very helpful.

You all have encouraged me today.