Unbeliever
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Well if the question is, is it possible for a believer to marry a non- believer, the answer is yes it's possible. Once (the book of Hosea) it was even possibly commanded by God (we don't know what Gomer believed, we just know she didn't keep her wedding vows).
Is it wise? Well faith when done right should be one of the most personal and core components of a person's identity, and it's hard to imagine a harmonious union where even one person has faith like that and unites with a person who doesn't share that faith. And if you're the believer in that situation and believe your unsaved spouse is going to hell, well that's a constant source of heartache you're signing yourself up for as well. (If you're the unbeliever in the situation, it seems weird that you'd be asking this question especially out of any good motives).
Having said that, I think there's also an argument / exception to be made that as our culture is so different from first century culture for people who were living together or have an existing long term relationship that encompasses many of the features of a marriage but just haven't bothered getting married for whatever reason. In such cases where one becomes a believer during the relationship; I'm not going to advise a new believer to dump their unbelieving SO that they got together with before they were a believer just because that SO hasn't converted yet. Granted the changes coming to faith causes in a life might make the relationship unworkable, but I'm against using a conversion to force a breakup (or someone using it as an excuse to break up because they want to break up for a variety of reasons).
It also should be said that dating to convert someone is at best misguided and at worst dishonest. Because as our other thread about being unequally yoked with other believers discusses, common faith isn't enough by itself; what you're really after is common commitments and passions for what you want to see in your lives and in the world. One of the advantages of faith is that it gives you an ideal beyond either of you for what you should be committed to and passionate about (though it's a wide enough field that there's a bunch of ways to go about the overall ideal).
Is it wise? Well faith when done right should be one of the most personal and core components of a person's identity, and it's hard to imagine a harmonious union where even one person has faith like that and unites with a person who doesn't share that faith. And if you're the believer in that situation and believe your unsaved spouse is going to hell, well that's a constant source of heartache you're signing yourself up for as well. (If you're the unbeliever in the situation, it seems weird that you'd be asking this question especially out of any good motives).
Having said that, I think there's also an argument / exception to be made that as our culture is so different from first century culture for people who were living together or have an existing long term relationship that encompasses many of the features of a marriage but just haven't bothered getting married for whatever reason. In such cases where one becomes a believer during the relationship; I'm not going to advise a new believer to dump their unbelieving SO that they got together with before they were a believer just because that SO hasn't converted yet. Granted the changes coming to faith causes in a life might make the relationship unworkable, but I'm against using a conversion to force a breakup (or someone using it as an excuse to break up because they want to break up for a variety of reasons).
It also should be said that dating to convert someone is at best misguided and at worst dishonest. Because as our other thread about being unequally yoked with other believers discusses, common faith isn't enough by itself; what you're really after is common commitments and passions for what you want to see in your lives and in the world. One of the advantages of faith is that it gives you an ideal beyond either of you for what you should be committed to and passionate about (though it's a wide enough field that there's a bunch of ways to go about the overall ideal).
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Christians cannot save a person's soul vicariously through marriage or we would be using marriage as an evangelism tool on non-believers.
God may send an unbeliever to a Christian to hear the gospel of Christ. Big difference between friendship and outreach to non-Christians.
I would guess most Christians wouldn't marry a non-believer for practical reasons. Imagine raising a child competing with a spouse who holds an incompatible world view to your own. It would create so much friction and even worse the child would be confused.
God may send an unbeliever to a Christian to hear the gospel of Christ. Big difference between friendship and outreach to non-Christians.
I would guess most Christians wouldn't marry a non-believer for practical reasons. Imagine raising a child competing with a spouse who holds an incompatible world view to your own. It would create so much friction and even worse the child would be confused.
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well Gomer was Jewish or an Israelite and was bound by the same covenant as Hosea was, she just was unfaithful.
It wasnt as if God deliberately sent a canaanite woman to Hosea.
With Ruth and Boaz, although Ruth was a Moabite she actually did give up idolatry and her own country to go with Naomi and believe in her God. This didnt stop her first marriage to an Israelite but she was in Maob then. God allowed it but he wasnt. sending her then (they just got married) but He did recognise her decision to leave Moab and marry Boaz, and become His people.
fast fwd to present day christians. We have a new covenant. If someone doesnt recongonise the new covenant of Jesus I would think it wouldnt really be Gods idea for that person to marry someone who does.
It wasnt as if God deliberately sent a canaanite woman to Hosea.
With Ruth and Boaz, although Ruth was a Moabite she actually did give up idolatry and her own country to go with Naomi and believe in her God. This didnt stop her first marriage to an Israelite but she was in Maob then. God allowed it but he wasnt. sending her then (they just got married) but He did recognise her decision to leave Moab and marry Boaz, and become His people.
fast fwd to present day christians. We have a new covenant. If someone doesnt recongonise the new covenant of Jesus I would think it wouldnt really be Gods idea for that person to marry someone who does.
As noted above, God is not going to go against His word. It's a bad idea for many reasons, and God isn't likely to steer His people into a lifetime of misery.
With regard to Hosea and Gomer, God had a specific purpose in mind, in a pre-Christian context. It is incorrect to interpret that story in any way that allows, encourages or justifies a Christian marrying a non-Christian.
With regard to Hosea and Gomer, God had a specific purpose in mind, in a pre-Christian context. It is incorrect to interpret that story in any way that allows, encourages or justifies a Christian marrying a non-Christian.
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If a Christian marries an unbeliever, I have to wonder what they chose as qualities of that person which allowed them to be attracted to and fall in love with? Certainly, it was not that persons spiritual status, right?
Maybe the mistake is in what qualities a person (Christian or not) looks for in a possible life mate?
I do not think God guides a Christian into a marriage with a nonbeliever. But, because of free will, He does allow it.
As for the question itself: Is it possible? I do not think so (think someone else said this) because God will not go against Himself.
I know Scriptures say all things are possible with God, but that is speaking of man, not God. God (I believe) puts certain limits on Himself due to His being good, pure, perfect. Limitations include doing evil surely.
Maybe the mistake is in what qualities a person (Christian or not) looks for in a possible life mate?
I do not think God guides a Christian into a marriage with a nonbeliever. But, because of free will, He does allow it.
As for the question itself: Is it possible? I do not think so (think someone else said this) because God will not go against Himself.
I know Scriptures say all things are possible with God, but that is speaking of man, not God. God (I believe) puts certain limits on Himself due to His being good, pure, perfect. Limitations include doing evil surely.
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I've been debating on whether or not I should post in this thread, as I tend to have a lot of views that are not popular with mainstream Christians.
I am adopted and my parents had me in the church pews the Sunday after they picked me up, so I've been a part of the Christian faith/ community all my life. One of my biggest frustrations has been that Christians seem to think, "If you follow all the rules, things will go jjjjuuuussssstttt fine. After all, you have God on your side, and if He is with you, what can come against you?"
A heck of a lot, from what I've observed. I am in no way establishing myself as some kind of authority on the subject, but I have seen a lot from both sides.
* A Christian couple who met in their teens, but the guy already had such a severe problem with alcohol that his own father told her she was crazy for marrying him. She replied that she felt that this was what God was calling her to do. They got married, and their union was a 30+ year battle with his alcoholism, including at one point, the husband breaking a mirror in an alcohol-fueled rage and slashing his wrists.
Eventually, he became a pastor. I don't know if, or to what extent, he may have relapsed since then. I don't know if they're still together. And I don't know if God was truly calling the woman to marry him as she had said or not.
* A Christian pair of friends who decided to get married to each other if neither one was married by a certain age. After all, they had friendship and God, and that was all they needed, right? They were divorced less than 2 years later.
* By contrast, I know at least two couples who are now very active in their churches, but the husbands were not believers when they first started dating. I am not by any means condoning "dating-to-convert," but I also don't know if God allowed their relationships to continue, knowing that the unbelievers involved would eventually become adamant believers.
I went to Lutheran schools from kindergarten to the day I graduated high school. I don't know if this happens in all parochial schools, but we had a subset of kids who "followed all the rules," and another subset (usually the "cool" crowd,) who did everything they consciously could in order to break them.
I remember the "cool" boys talking about going to the strip club an hour away every weekend, and it was considered a rite of passage to go to the adult entertainment store across from the truck stop in a certain town. I have a clear image in my head of one of the most popular guys in my class passing around his wallet at school sporting events, showing off his prized condom collection that he carried with him.
Some of the other things I distinctly remember in my devotions, prayer, and Bible classes every day school was the couple who got passing notes (about the sex they planned to have on the weekend,) and the couple who got caught skipping school (because they had gone to get an abortion.) This, and a lot more, are the most prominent memories I have of my Christian education 124 students (combined from all 4 grades.) However, I must say that we also had a lot of dedicated pastors and teachers whom I definitely owe part of my spiritual foundation to without question.
Growing up in that culture and constantly hearing about how it's "us" (believers) vs. "them" (unbelievers) and that we shouldn't mix, imagine the shock I felt when I went to a public colleges and met guys who didn't claim to be Christians but had strong moral values and in some cases, were virgins by choice and were not ashamed of it.
I didn't even think this was possible, as the Christian culture I'd come from made it sound like only Christians were capable of proper moral decisions, most certainly when it came to sexuality (to say that I felt confused, lost, and angry would be an understatement.)
In my 20's, I dated a guy whose Bible was more marked up than mine (which is not to say I'm any kind of Bible scholar, but I'm sure this guy could have held his own against most,) but yet, he confided that he had problems with sexual addiction. And not just sexual addiction, but BDSM (bondage/sadomasochism) in particular. As much as the Christian community likes to turn it's head, these types of issues seem to be more and more common, and little seems to be done about them (I honestly don't think the church even knows where to begin, as everyone seems to think that if you pray enough, it will just disappear overnight -- in some cases, maybe. But it doesn't seem to be that way with most.)
Imagine getting married to someone... Only to find out on your wedding night that they can only be sexually interested if they tie someone up and then proceed to hurt and humiliate them? And the only answer the church will have is that you are to NEVER divorce, because God HATES divorce.
I think it's important to remember that Christianity, no matter how strongly someone identifies as being one, is not a free pass to instant moral or even responsible behavior, as we are all going through different stages of our transformation, and some steps are never mastered in this lifetime.
One of my own issues in the dating world is that if I have a choice between a man who is a Christian but can't kick a 20-year-porn/drug addiction and an unbeliever who never had one to begin with, I will always be more drawn to the unbeliever. In fact, it would make me go to God in sadness and ask He hasn't helped the Christian man defeat this, since we're all taught about the unquestionable, almighty power of God?
And this is NOT to condemn anyone. I understand that many times (not all, but many,) addictions like this begin with abuses by others that should have never occurred in the first place, and I would never condemn or criticize someone for that. In my earlier years, I thought I could put up with things like that in a partner (and maybe even just pray it away,) but have found that I cannot (and it makes me start to self-destruct as well.)
Now, I am also certainly NOT saying that all believers have addictions and all unbelievers do not -- good grief, no. But what I AM saying is that I am always amazed that some Christians seem to think for some reason that just because one is a Christian, they don't have those struggles, or that "everything will be alright" (as in, go right ahead and get married! It will all work out through the blessings of God!) if they do have them just because they have Christ.
Seeing as I have often found myself in situations where I am attracted to either an believer with issues I know I can't handle over the long-term, or an unbeliever who has good morals but no faith, I find myself having no choice but to utilize a third and even more unpopular option, which is to remain alone indefinitely, unless God decides to change that.
And I am also not in any way, shape, or form trying to say that I am somehow above such issues. One of the reasons I try to avoid them, as well as people heavily entrenched in them, is because I'm pretty sure I would fall victim to some of those snares just as quickly, if not more so.
I am adopted and my parents had me in the church pews the Sunday after they picked me up, so I've been a part of the Christian faith/ community all my life. One of my biggest frustrations has been that Christians seem to think, "If you follow all the rules, things will go jjjjuuuussssstttt fine. After all, you have God on your side, and if He is with you, what can come against you?"
A heck of a lot, from what I've observed. I am in no way establishing myself as some kind of authority on the subject, but I have seen a lot from both sides.
* A Christian couple who met in their teens, but the guy already had such a severe problem with alcohol that his own father told her she was crazy for marrying him. She replied that she felt that this was what God was calling her to do. They got married, and their union was a 30+ year battle with his alcoholism, including at one point, the husband breaking a mirror in an alcohol-fueled rage and slashing his wrists.
Eventually, he became a pastor. I don't know if, or to what extent, he may have relapsed since then. I don't know if they're still together. And I don't know if God was truly calling the woman to marry him as she had said or not.
* A Christian pair of friends who decided to get married to each other if neither one was married by a certain age. After all, they had friendship and God, and that was all they needed, right? They were divorced less than 2 years later.
* By contrast, I know at least two couples who are now very active in their churches, but the husbands were not believers when they first started dating. I am not by any means condoning "dating-to-convert," but I also don't know if God allowed their relationships to continue, knowing that the unbelievers involved would eventually become adamant believers.
I went to Lutheran schools from kindergarten to the day I graduated high school. I don't know if this happens in all parochial schools, but we had a subset of kids who "followed all the rules," and another subset (usually the "cool" crowd,) who did everything they consciously could in order to break them.
I remember the "cool" boys talking about going to the strip club an hour away every weekend, and it was considered a rite of passage to go to the adult entertainment store across from the truck stop in a certain town. I have a clear image in my head of one of the most popular guys in my class passing around his wallet at school sporting events, showing off his prized condom collection that he carried with him.
Some of the other things I distinctly remember in my devotions, prayer, and Bible classes every day school was the couple who got passing notes (about the sex they planned to have on the weekend,) and the couple who got caught skipping school (because they had gone to get an abortion.) This, and a lot more, are the most prominent memories I have of my Christian education 124 students (combined from all 4 grades.) However, I must say that we also had a lot of dedicated pastors and teachers whom I definitely owe part of my spiritual foundation to without question.
Growing up in that culture and constantly hearing about how it's "us" (believers) vs. "them" (unbelievers) and that we shouldn't mix, imagine the shock I felt when I went to a public colleges and met guys who didn't claim to be Christians but had strong moral values and in some cases, were virgins by choice and were not ashamed of it.
I didn't even think this was possible, as the Christian culture I'd come from made it sound like only Christians were capable of proper moral decisions, most certainly when it came to sexuality (to say that I felt confused, lost, and angry would be an understatement.)
In my 20's, I dated a guy whose Bible was more marked up than mine (which is not to say I'm any kind of Bible scholar, but I'm sure this guy could have held his own against most,) but yet, he confided that he had problems with sexual addiction. And not just sexual addiction, but BDSM (bondage/sadomasochism) in particular. As much as the Christian community likes to turn it's head, these types of issues seem to be more and more common, and little seems to be done about them (I honestly don't think the church even knows where to begin, as everyone seems to think that if you pray enough, it will just disappear overnight -- in some cases, maybe. But it doesn't seem to be that way with most.)
Imagine getting married to someone... Only to find out on your wedding night that they can only be sexually interested if they tie someone up and then proceed to hurt and humiliate them? And the only answer the church will have is that you are to NEVER divorce, because God HATES divorce.
I think it's important to remember that Christianity, no matter how strongly someone identifies as being one, is not a free pass to instant moral or even responsible behavior, as we are all going through different stages of our transformation, and some steps are never mastered in this lifetime.
One of my own issues in the dating world is that if I have a choice between a man who is a Christian but can't kick a 20-year-porn/drug addiction and an unbeliever who never had one to begin with, I will always be more drawn to the unbeliever. In fact, it would make me go to God in sadness and ask He hasn't helped the Christian man defeat this, since we're all taught about the unquestionable, almighty power of God?
And this is NOT to condemn anyone. I understand that many times (not all, but many,) addictions like this begin with abuses by others that should have never occurred in the first place, and I would never condemn or criticize someone for that. In my earlier years, I thought I could put up with things like that in a partner (and maybe even just pray it away,) but have found that I cannot (and it makes me start to self-destruct as well.)
Now, I am also certainly NOT saying that all believers have addictions and all unbelievers do not -- good grief, no. But what I AM saying is that I am always amazed that some Christians seem to think for some reason that just because one is a Christian, they don't have those struggles, or that "everything will be alright" (as in, go right ahead and get married! It will all work out through the blessings of God!) if they do have them just because they have Christ.
Seeing as I have often found myself in situations where I am attracted to either an believer with issues I know I can't handle over the long-term, or an unbeliever who has good morals but no faith, I find myself having no choice but to utilize a third and even more unpopular option, which is to remain alone indefinitely, unless God decides to change that.
And I am also not in any way, shape, or form trying to say that I am somehow above such issues. One of the reasons I try to avoid them, as well as people heavily entrenched in them, is because I'm pretty sure I would fall victim to some of those snares just as quickly, if not more so.
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I remember a workmate got married to a pastor of a charismatic church, he cheated on her, they had a son together. I dont know if she ever remarried or anything but she said she fell for him cos he was 'charismatic' but not necessarily because he claims he was a christian, although she kept her own faith in God.
Thats kind of sad that even ministers cant keep their pants on.
one of my good. friends married a divorced pastor, who alrrady had children! Then after two sons and a few years later they separated. She kept her faith.
I dont know why some women marry but i have spoken to some of the younger dewy eyed women and they have dreams of marrying pastors and raising families, never thinking that maybe a lot of other women are dreaming the same thing and so these pastors have to choose from many women going after them lol
Thats kind of sad that even ministers cant keep their pants on.
one of my good. friends married a divorced pastor, who alrrady had children! Then after two sons and a few years later they separated. She kept her faith.
I dont know why some women marry but i have spoken to some of the younger dewy eyed women and they have dreams of marrying pastors and raising families, never thinking that maybe a lot of other women are dreaming the same thing and so these pastors have to choose from many women going after them lol
when my friends ex died she went to his funeral and so did his first wife.
I think the first wife remarried Im not sure what happened there, its ancient history, but the first wives daughter looks after the second wives son and the second wife went back to live with her parents.
?! complicated. I dont know if theres any kind of difference between first and second wives or is one a true wife and the other a concubine, I never really figured it out.
I think the first wife remarried Im not sure what happened there, its ancient history, but the first wives daughter looks after the second wives son and the second wife went back to live with her parents.
?! complicated. I dont know if theres any kind of difference between first and second wives or is one a true wife and the other a concubine, I never really figured it out.
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The Lord works in mysterious ways though I think a believer is always more desirable/convenient to date than an unbeliever. If God sends an unbeliever to a believer, then he wants them to believe by learning from the believer. If the unbeliever was adamant about rejecting God, then the believer must reject them too as the relationship isn't just about the two of them, yet the community the believer is connected to, which would get hurt with their potential relationship (unless the unbeliever believes of course).
Godspeed.
Godspeed.
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