Was sex Adam and Eve part of the curse

[Lovette]

Of course if you are single you should keep yourself for marriage. You will get no argument about that here. But it is perfectly o.k. for a married couple to have sex together if they so want to do so.

Then that's their own business, not mine or yours.

 

[Lovette]

Paedophiles are closer to God. I doubt their victims would agree with you. Neither do I.

You're in no position to paint the whole Catholic church with millennia of history with that one broad brush stroke.

 

[Lovette]

you most certainly did misunderstand and I base my claim on the fact that you believe I implied that "there's a spouse dropped from the sky for every good christian" ... when I said no such thing.

Then why do you base all your arguments on the narrative of already married couple?

Do you know what the term "help meet" means, Lovette?

Genesis 2:18 18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

It means to help, to succour. The relationship between husband and wife is very dynamic when both husband and wife are cognizant of God, of God's Word concerning the marriage, and they both submit to God and His ways.

I didn't ask you what it means, I asked you where does such a "help mate" come from, where's that "both" in your unsubstantiated assumption. Were you born with a sub a help mate? Arranged by God? Did God carve an Eve out of every Adam's body for him? Yes or no?

I do not worship marriage. I worship God, Who is the One Who established the marriage relationship.

You consider marriage "a human institution" because you do not understand what God established from the very first chapters in Genesis.

I do understand that, you don't understand that we don't live in the very first chapters in Genesis. Jesus taught, "in the BEGINNING it was not so," that is, now it's no longer the beginning.

That you consider what God established to be "a human institution like all other human institutions" does not mean that the marriage relationship as God designed it is what you claim.

How He designed it is one thing, how it has become of is another.

Does your church teach from the pulpit "That every man is ENTITLED to a wife and every woman is ENTITLED to a husband"?

Does your church teach from the pulpit, "save yourself for marriage?" "For your future spouse?"

We each have to live our own lives. God is still God whether we are married or unmarried.

Then drop it and stop lecturing me or anybody else on marriage.

Again, I worship God, Who is the One Who established the marriage relationship.

Again, I worship the same God who established faith through every hardships, even in the absence of marriage relationship. If you'd never married and had nobody to marry, would you still worship Him?

Again, I worship God, Who is the One Who established the marriage relationship.

Again, I worship the same God who established faith through every hardships, even in the absence of marriage relationship. If you'd never married and had nobody to marry, would you still worship Him?

As mentioned in a prior post, Paul was responding to the church at Corinth concerning matters about which he had received writing. We do not have that writing in front of us. All we know is that Paul was addressing some issues that had cropped up. Continue reading chapter 8 where Paul addresses issues relating to idolatry and eating things offered to idols. Marriage was not the only issue Paul dealt with in his response to the letter had had received.

Then drop it and stop lecturing me or anybody else on marriage.

Not every marriage takes place because "they cannot exercise self-control". As shown in Genesis 2:18, Eve was a help meet for Adam.

Neither does a marriage take place for everyone. As long as you base all your arguments on the narrative of already married couple, you're presuming that there's a spouse dropping from the sky for everyone, you're disinclined to acknowledge that marriage is NOT for everyone, despite your denial.

 

[Lovette]

the verse says "they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage" ... there was no "marriage in particular" being "portrayed in a negative way". If you're going to go down that trail, you have to include eating and drinking.

Again ... Jesus was speaking negatively about the time in which Noah lived. Noah was a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5). Noah tried to warn, but people did not listen. Only Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives were saved. God shut them in the ark ("and the Lord shut him in").

Not being watchful on the Lord's coming is negative, no matter what your excuse is.

The "clueless bums the Lord Jesus warned about" were the folks who ignored the preacher of righteousness (Noah) before the flood came. Jesus was not portraying marriage in the abysmal manner you believe in.

Yes he was, "so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."

you're so focussed on your own narrative concerning marriage that you gloss right over these words "But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned".

.

It's Paul's view and narrative, not mine. "Such will have trouble in the flesh." Paul spared them, but God won't. "Woe on those who're pregnant and nursing babies!"

 

[Paul357]

Thanks @Churchgoer . We just had Yom Kippur. Most do not realize what the event is all about.

For most of the year, the Tabernacles and Temples are symbolic of a Eukaryotic Cell:

View attachment 296259 View attachment 296260

The Menorah for example is symbolic of Mitochondrial DNA:

Psalms 119:105 נ (NUN). Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

The Seed is the Word. The Word was made flesh and 'Tabernacled' among us.

On Yom Kippur, the Tabernacles and Temples become symbolic of an ovum that is fertilized:

Leviticus 16:14 - And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times.

When the High Priest goes all the way into the Nucleolus and sprinkles the blood, that is symbolic of ovum fertilization.

Seven is Nitrogen, a natural fertilizer. It is the Stone with Seven Eyes:

View attachment 296262​

Thus, the Woman (the one who carries the Seed of the Woman) flees to the wilderness (Exodus) and has a 'place prepared of God' (Tabernacle) so that Her Seed (Abraham's Seed) can be nourished by the daily sacrifices. They were feeding baby Jesus for 1260 years without realizing it. Life begins at conception. The 'Body Temple' of Jesus was symbolic of a zygote.

View attachment 296261​

We even find the Word of God in the Tables of the Heart in Revelation:

View attachment 296263​

The Lamb with Seven Eyes is symbolic of the Nitrogen Base, the Seed, the Word of God.

The Tables of the Heart is the Genome, i.e., the Soul.

I jumped in the Topic without reading it with a Serpent Seed post. Your posts are interesting. Ive heard these Theories before somewhere. Think it was by a Jewish Kabbalist. Do you have a source please? Maybe a lecture I can listen to.

 

[Researcher]

I jumped in the Topic without reading it with a Serpent Seed post. Your posts are interesting. Ive heard these Theories before somewhere. Think it was by a Jewish Kabbalist. Do you have a source please? Maybe a lecture I can listen to.

Hi @Paul357 . I have to go to work, but I will get back to you later with some infos in one of the threads you made. I have some knowledge about UFOs and whatnot as they relate to the Bible.

 

[Researcher]

Hi @reneweddaybyday . Let's see what you got...

Do you believe there is a Euphrates river in heaven?

Yes. Scripture teaches that the reality we exist in is a 'shadow' of higher dimensions. We are 3D images being cast by 4D.

Hebrews 8:5 - Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

In earth as it is in Heaven.

There was a single river in Eden which watered the garden. The river went out of Even, then divided into the four heads (Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel (Tigris), Euphrates).

Neither the Tigris nor the Euphrates 'fertilized' any plant in the garden of Eden.

Genesis 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

I take it you don't know what the Mountain of God is where the mayim "fertilizer" emanates from? And why Satan was cast out? Or what 'cast out' even means?

Ezekiel 28:13-16 - Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Do you not know what Satan covered? Do you not know what the Stones of Fire are or what they have to do with Eden?

What about the 'covering' that Satan had? Do you understand what those precious stones were symbolic of?

If you or anyone here knew the answers, the Mysteries of the Garden of Eden would be extremely obvious. Actually, you would be terrified at what God has revealed to us. Most people have no idea how serious this is.

I already answered what 'Stones' are in a previous post. When they are on fire, they have an even more very euphemistic meaning.

I specialize in teaching the Meat of the Word. Milk is for toddlers.

All of Adam's children were begotten in the likeness and image of Adam (Genesis 5:3). Each successive generation was (and continues to be) begotten in the likeness and image of their earthly parents.

Ah. It looks like you may not know who the 'us' and 'our' is in Genesis 1:26:

Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

I will come back and explain when I get off work.

Correction ... the more you know of God's Word..

Amen.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes, it is absolutely abysmal. Did God establish same sex union, wedding industry, no fault divorce, career women and such? I point it on Satan as much as you do, Satan has ruined every blessing of God, I'm just here to tell you that we're living in such ruins. I'm not an idealist as you're, you think you're discussing marriage, what you're doing is worshiping marriage, and totally detached from that ruination.

I worship God Who established the marriage relationship. Period.

Perhaps you have never been exposed to a solid godly marriage and that may be why you hold marriage in such disdain.

Lord Jesus acknowledged it, He called out the "hardness of your hearts", but he didn't preach to restore marriage, family value or any other kind of conservative talking points, he didn't tell any disciples to get married and make babies, so why can't you?

You just make sure you are in alignment with what God lays out in His Word. Quit looking at the "human institution of marriage" and learn what God intended when He set up the marriage relationship. What the Lord Jesus Christ "acknowledged" was how mankind deviated from what God established. The Lord Jesus Christ did not claim that the marriage relationship established by God is as you believe.

Then it's between them and God. Be careful with this one, I know all too well that your generation have overly romanticized "till death to us part", divorce is absolutely off limits under any circumstance; but the negative side is, if you happen to marry the wrong person, things go sour, there's no way out, and you've only yourself to blame; oftentimes you may be attractive to somebody when you're on the pill, but when you're off the pill he's somehow lost his appeal due to your own hormonal changes, I even as a straight man knows this.

I believe I addressed this issue in a prior post ... We need to take caution when considering marriage. God admonishes us not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers.


reneweddaybyday said:

Please specify what was a "crazy" idea in what I submitted in response to your "sociologically speaking" concepts.​

THe idea of comparing modern marriage to Mary and Joseph's.

I did not compare your idea of "modern marriage to Mary and Joseph's". I said that the pharisees accused Jesus of having been born of fornication when it is clear that Mary and Joseph were married. Matthew 1:19 tells us Joseph was the husband of Mary.

You are speaking "sociologically" concerning marriage and I am speaking "biblically" concerning marriage. When you mix mans wisdom in with God's wisdom, you no longer have God's wisdom. You should get a clue what the marriage relationship can be when both husband and wife are committed first to God and then to each other. I never denied that there are ups and downs in a marriage ... the peaks and valleys we all go through whether we are married or not.

Unless it's same sex.

Then stop worshiping it as the epitome of godliness, when in reality it not only contradicts God's sacred design but also involves a ton of the government's meddling.

I do not worship marriage in and of itself. I respect the marriage God established for man and woman.

That satan has duped folks into what you believe concerning marriage is a tragedy.

You're preaching a prosperity gospel.

Nope, I'm talking about the marriage relationship established by God.

My "dismal" view on marriage is a sober acknowledgement of the sinful and broken world we're living in, which has infinitesimally deviated from God's original design, that's why we need salvation from the Lord in the first place.

No one is denying we live in a sinful and broken world ... that the world has not only "infinitesimally deviated" from God's original design, the world has collosally deviated from God's original design.

.

 

[Lovette]

I worship God Who established the marriage relationship. Period.

Perhaps you have never been exposed to a solid godly marriage and that may be why you hold marriage in such disdain.

I ask you again, did God establish that for all mankind, or just Christians who brag their marriage and lecture on others? And why do urban, college educated, what you'd call godless couples have longer and stabler marriage, so do many others from other countries who, not only have never been exposed to "a solid godly marriage", but have never been exposed to Christianity at all, can have longer and stabler marriage, compared to those in the so called "bible belt"? Give me a break.

Once again, my disdain is not against marriage, but against this sanctimonious attitude.

You just make sure you are in alignment with what God lays out in His Word. Quit looking at the "human institution of marriage" and learn what God intended when He set up the marriage relationship. What the Lord Jesus Christ "acknowledged" was how mankind deviated from what God established. The Lord Jesus Christ did not claim that the marriage relationship established by God is as you believe.

Or how about set your mind on our eternal union with Christ? Lord Jesus Christ did claim two things - no divorce under any circumstance; singleness is an acceptable fate, marriage is not for everyone.

I believe I addressed this issue in a prior post ... We need to take caution when considering marriage. God admonishes us not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers.

Or how about be yoked with the Holy Spirit to serve the Lord only, and not to be yoked with anybody? The Lord has set you free, why do you put yourself back in chains?

I did not compare your idea of "modern marriage to Mary and Joseph's". I said that the pharisees accused Jesus of having been born of fornication when it is clear that Mary and Joseph were married. Matthew 1:19 tells us Joseph was the husband of Mary.

And I said in 21st century, government certificate says one's marital status.

You are speaking "sociologically" concerning marriage and I am speaking "biblically" concerning marriage. When you mix mans wisdom in with God's wisdom, you no longer have God's wisdom. You should get a clue what the marriage relationship can be when both husband and wife are committed first to God and then to each other. I never denied that there are ups and downs in a marriage ... the peaks and valleys we all go through whether we are married or not.

As long as you decline to acknowledge that marriage is for all mankind, which varies from culture to culture, from time to time, not just Christians, you are speaking sanctimoniously concerning marriage.

God's wisdom shows that the early church fathers didn't marry at all. Paul, Timothy, John, and the Lord himself, all singles, never married. So were the priests, nuns, monks, friars.

I do not worship marriage in and of itself. I respect the marriage God established for man and woman.

That satan has duped folks into what you believe concerning marriage is a tragedy.

The only tragedy is your obsession with marriage, despite your denial.

Nope, I'm talking about the marriage relationship established by God.

You're not. Whatever you're rambling about is a product of modern romanticism.

No one is denying we live in a sinful and broken world ... that the world has not only "infinitesimally deviated" from God's original design, the world has collosally deviated from God's original design.

Then so is that "marriage relationship established by God". Lord Jesus acknowledge that, you don't.

 

[tourist]

And the MeToo movement and omnipresent surveillance only reinforced this taboo. You boomers grown up in the culture of sexual liberation and casual hookup will never understand.

I was not part of any type of sexual liberation / casual hookup.

 

[Lovette]

I was not part of any type of sexual liberation / casual hookup.

A rising tide lifts all boats.

 

[Dino246]

You're in no position to paint the whole Catholic church with millennia of history with that one broad brush stroke.

A rising tide lifts all boats.

Hypocrite.

 

[Burn1986]

Then that's their own business, not mine or yours.

So Lovette, you’re a woman, right?

 

[Lovette]

So Lovette, you’re a woman, right?

 

[Lovette]

Hypocrite.

Alright, so all protestants are health and wealth gospel peddlars, as much as all Catholics are pdeos. Happy?

 

[Dino246]

Alright, so all protestants are health and wealth gospel peddlars, as much as all Catholics are pdeos. Happy?

Given the heavily biased hogwash you have posted in this thread, I doubt anything you say would make me happy.

 

[Gideon300]

Alright, so all protestants are health and wealth gospel peddlars, as much as all Catholics are pdeos. Happy?

Your claim is that celibacy brings people closer to God than those who are not celibate. That claim is obviously false. I do not say that every celibate person is evil. I do say that celibacy is not a recipe for superior spiritual experience.

For example, Watchman Nee's mentor was a celibate woman missionary She had no public ministry. Watchman Nee established churches all over China, without the support of overseas missionaries. The churches he founded survived Mao's wicked regime. Nee was married. Celibacy is a choice and between the believer and God.

My wife is a vital part of my ministry. We are presently helping two single women. It would be a real problem if I was single.​

 

[Lovette]

Given the heavily biased hogwash you have posted in this thread, I doubt anything you say would make me happy.

Then go find happiness else where, God bless.

 

[Lovette]

Your claim is that celibacy brings people closer to God than those who are not celibate. That claim is obviously false. I do not say that every celibate person is evil. I do say that celibacy is not a recipe for superior spiritual experience.

For example, Watchman Nee's mentor was a celibate woman missionary She had no public ministry. Watchman Nee established churches all over China, without the support of overseas missionaries. The churches he founded survived Mao's wicked regime. Nee was married. Celibacy is a choice and between the believer and God.

My wife is a vital part of my ministry. We are presently helping two single women. It would be a real problem if I was single.​

The only problem is prescribing marriage as a magic fix to all social ills, no matter how unrealistic it is. Also, one with a public ministry is not necessarily closer to God than one who has none. With great power comes great responsibility, Paul has a list of qualifications for a leader.

 

[Burn1986]

I mean, if you’re not I’m sorry. Maybe I misread.