Was sex Adam and Eve part of the curse

[Burn1986]

sex is essential in the marriage act, does that mirror the relationship with Jesus? What he taught is the opposite, there’s no marriage in resurrection when we’re in eternal Union with him.

Sex is a picture of progression in prayer and communion with Him (It’s also a picture of the temple) - the believer begins by praying and inviting Jesus’s presence, calling His name. The believer prays until they feel a release or an importation. Praying and listening until they receive a response.

Lovette, this is very basic stuff. Not sure what level of church or spiritual training you’ve received but I would advise to ask God to draw resources and people to you that will help you grow.

 

[Lovette]

Sex is a picture of progression in prayer and communion with Him (It’s also a picture of the temple) - the believer begins by praying and inviting Jesus’s presence, calling His name. The believer prays until they feel a release or an importation. Praying and listening until they receive a response.

Lovette, this is very basic stuff. Not sure what level of church or spiritual training you’ve received but I would advise to ask God to draw resources and people to you that will help you grow.

No, it's a animalistic instinct, using another person's body to satisfy your own need. All animals have sex and live for sex, a follower of Christ is called for a higher purpose, neither prayer nor communion requires your participation with your naughty bit which God designed for peeing.

 

[Lovette]

reneweddaybyday said:

the marriages are not fraudulent ... and I know for a fact that when both husband and wife are committed to God, that marriage is far, far superior (spiritually speaking) than if husband and wife are not committed to God.​

nope ... I know from personal experience because my husband and I were already in relationship when his cousin witnessed to us and brought us to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Are you born again, Lovette? If so, then you know the change that occurs in a person's life.

And I know from the word of God that marriage is for all mankind, not Christians only. Your personal story is purely anectodal.

reneweddaybyday said:

1 Corinthians 7:37-38 refer to a father who has a daughter ...​

What are you going on about? In our day and time, kids live with their parents after they reach adulthood and you call that "medieval"? Our daughter lived at home until she was married. Our oldest son lived at home until he was married. That is not a "medieval" practice, Lovette.

You said it was referring a father's disposal of his daughter, don't ask me.

reneweddaybyday said:

Nope, I'm still talking about the marriage relationship established by God ... which you deny. You are so dead set against marriage that you cannot even submit to the truth of God's Word concerning the relationship He established. Is marriage for everyone? No. Can marriage be a blessing to both spouses? Yes.​

Lovette said:

There's no promise of a "spouse" from God in the first place.​

reneweddaybyday said:

so? That does not change the fact that marriage can be a blessing to both spouses.​

sigh … we're speaking of marriage, Lovette. If there is a marriage, there are two spouses. I guess you haven't ferreted that out yet have you, Sherlock?

No, we're speaking of the IDOLATRY of marriage. Your "if" is just a baseless assumption.

Lovette said:

I ask you again, if you never had the opportunity to meet anybody, while everybody else around you seem to have their luck, would you still worship God?​

reneweddaybyday said:

yes.​

I am not married now and I worship God. My husband worshipped God while he was alive. I worshipped God while he was alive. We also gasp worshipped God together.

That's your busines which I asked nothing about.

reneweddaybyday said:

I worship God because I love Him.​

Nope.

Yes.

reneweddaybyday said:

What the world does has no effect on the truth of God's Word.​

​

That you view what the world does as having some sort of effect concerning truth does not change truth into what the world considers true.​

A person does not have to be married to "get involved in what the world considers true". Your view of marriage is a prime example ... your view is wholly from a world standpoint as you have pointed out more than several times.

From a godly standpoint, God himself never married, neither did Paul, Timothy, John, and generations of church fathers and priests. Your view is a modern invention.

You don't believe now, even though you have been shown from God's Word ... you hold the world in higher esteem than God's Word.

Trying to explain to you the marriage relationship established by God is like trying to explain to an unbeliever that peace with God is not the same as cessation of conflict in the world. The believer is afforded peace through the Lord Jesus Christ in the midst of conflict.

And the believer is also smart enough to avoid such conflict in the first place.

reneweddaybyday said:

what sadducees? The sadducees were not with Jesus when his disciples asked Him "when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"​

We weren't talking about the sadducees. We were talking about the Olivet Discourse. You keep bringing the sadducees into the Olivet Discourse, but the sadduccees were not there. Jesus was answering questions asked of him by His disciples (Matthew 24:3 “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

The disciples came to Jesus privately ... there were no sadducees, pharisees, chief priests, scribes, elders involved in the discussion.

And, I again clarify ... I do not worship marriage, I worship God Who established the marriage relationship.

Then why are you so vehemently arguing for your earthly attachment when you should've been watching out for the signs of his coming, speaking of the Olivet Discourse?

Nope. The mention of "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage" refers to the every day goings on in life. Jesus would have used terms such as gluttony and drunkenness if He had meant "excessive eating and drinking".

Yes, it is referring to gluttony and drunkenness at the fateful time where you should've been watching out for the signs of his coming. It's about the attitude of gross negligence.

reneweddaybyday said:

you are grasping at straws in your feeble attempt to support your erroneous claims.​

Glad you acknowledge your claim is erroneous.

.

My claim is based on the word of God. I asked you again, was your marriage arranged or not? The model for marriage established by God is arranged marriage, God made Eve for Adam and joined them together. If you or anybody married on your own initiative, don't call that godly, that'd be taking the Lord's name in vain, and the error is all yours.

 

[Lovette]

reneweddaybyday said:

It is not a sin to marry.​

Correction ... it would be a folly for you to marry unless and until you learn from God's Word the truth concerning marriage.

.

It is a folly to have blinded followed the life script the world prescribed to you and put a Christian label on it.

 

[Burn1986]

No, it's an animalistic instinct, using another person's body to satisfy your own need. All animals have sex and live for sex, a follower of Christ is called for a higher purpose, neither prayer nor communion requires your participation with your naughty bit which God designed for peeing.

You’ve got an anger there, or something has happened and the enemy is blocking you from seeing this.

 

[Lovette]

Here are the verses where it is stated the man shall leave father and mother, cleave to his wife, and they shall be one:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Mark 10:7-8 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined to unto his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

Ephesians 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

There is no indication in any of the verses (including Genesis 2:24) that God would do as you claim He did for Adam.

You're lying by omission. In all these verses, it states a man should be joined to his WIFE - not girlfriend, companion or fiancee, at that point they were already married. But how did she become his wife in the first place?

And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; (Gen. 2:18)

I will make him a helper comparable to him.” (Gen. 2:18)

He brought her to the man. (Gen. 2:22)

I'm not sure that everyone who is married began the relationship because they "feel not good being alone" so they "seeks out a mate".

Sometimes a person meets another, they start talking, they get to know each other, they date, then start thinking about marrying.

.

Thanks, just a kind reminder, we live in a sinful and broken world, currently with a hostility and a distrust between men and women. Dating is all about your own feelings, anything godly is just your sanctimony. If you date that leads to marriage, it's not godly; if a marriage's godly, it can't be the result of dating.

 

[Lovette]

You’ve got an anger there, or something has happened and the enemy is blocking you from seeing this.

No, I have a common sense. The enemy's distraction is the obsession with marriage, sex, romance, the whole package.

 

[Burn1986]

No, I have a common sense. The enemy's distraction is the obsession with marriage, sex, romance, the whole package.

The key word is “the enemy”. Satan wants to attack this union. He wants to pervert it and destroy couples from coming together as one (“…a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined with his wife. The two shall become one flesh. What God has joined together…”). For those that are married, this is the one area where restoration happens in the marriage. The Bible also says, “…the marriage bed is undefiled.” Not everyone gets it right, and this is under heavy attack with porn and infidelity today, but God has blessed the marriage union between the husband and the wife.

 

[Lovette]

The key word is “the enemy”. Satan wants to attack this union. He wants to pervert it and destroy couples from coming together as one (“…a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined with his wife. The two shall become one flesh. What God has joined together…”). For those that are married, this is the one area where restoration happens in the marriage. The Bible also says, “…the marriage bed is undefiled.” Not everyone gets it right, and this is under heavy attack with porn and infidelity today, but God has blessed the marriage union between the husband and the wife.

For those who're already married, good for them, but I'm talking about singles who have no wife to join with. The question is this - will you worship marriage and use God to get you a wife - or God, despite the lack of marriage? Once again, the inconvenient fact is that we're all born single, no one is entitled to a partner, God didn't slice open every Adam and make an Eve out of his rib. You don't need to be bothered with these "key words" when there's no wife to join with and no marraige bed to defile.

 

[Burn1986]

For those who're already married, good for them, but I'm talking about singles who have no wife to join with. The question is this - will you worship marriage and use God to get you a wife - or God, despite the lack of marriage? Once again, the inconvenient fact is that we're all born single, no one is entitled to a partner, God didn't slice open every Adam and make an Eve out of his rib. You don't need to be bothered with these "key words" when there's no wife to join with and no marraige bed to defile.

Got it. You don’t have to marry. Paul said it would be “better not to marry…unless a man couldn’t control his urges then he should…”Of course they were going through executions, torture, and punishment, so Paul probably thought it was easier not to drag a family through all that.

 

[Lovette]

Got it. You don’t have to marry. Paul said it would be “better not to marry…unless a man couldn’t control his urges then he should…”Of course they were going through executions, torture, and punishment, so Paul probably thought it was easier not to drag a family through all that.

Right, god won't tempt you with more than what you can handle.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

According to scripture, earthly marriage is a mere shadow of the eternal heavenly marriage with Jesus, idolizing earthly marriage is the real error.

You err in comparing the marriage relationship established by God with the "earthly marriage".


reneweddaybyday said:

Do you believe the tabernacle in the wilderness was unnecessary or unneeded because the tabernacle was only a foreshadow of the heavenly Holy of Holies?​

Do you believe is it still necessary to rebuild the tabernacle and worship god in it despite Jesus’s teaching of worshiping in spirit and truth.

Not an answer to the question, Lovette. Do you believe the tabernacle in the wilderness was unnecessary because the tabernacle was only a foreshadow of the heavenly Holy of Holies?


reneweddaybyday said:

The wife does not "have to seek validation from a husband" nor does the husband "have to seek validation from" a wife in order to have a vibrant, vital relationship with the Lord.​

​

That is one of your erroneous beliefs which is being corrected.​

Why getting married in the first place?

If a couple decides they want to get married, why not get married? It is not sin to be married.

your idolatry of marriage is reproachable.

What is "reproachable" is your continued insistence that the "wordly marriage" is the same was what God established as the marriage relationship.


reneweddaybyday said:

When the Lord Jesus Christ told the pharisees that Moses allowed for divorce, He specifically pointed out divorce was "because of the hardness of your hearts".​

​

When both husband and wife have been given a new heart when born again, it is totally possible for both husband and wife to live together without the "hardness of heart".​

Equally possible of false advertising for two people who shouldn’t be married in the first place.

reneweddaybyday said:

I hope and pray you will learn the difference between your "worldly institution" view of marriage and the marriage relationship ordained by God.​

Don’t call it godly Union when it’s made in a worldly way.

Continuing in prayer for God to open your eyes/heart concerning marriage. And I'm not advocating that you should get married ... I'm advocating that you should not insist that your "worldly institution" view of marriage is the same as God's view of marriage.


reneweddaybyday said:

When the laws established by the government do not conflict with God's Word, yes, one does "have it both ways".​

Except the government’s law does conflict with God’s word. Since when did God sanctify same sex marriage?

Again reiterating Acts 5:29 "We ought to obey God rather than men."

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

there’s no marriage in resurrection when we’re in eternal Union with him.

That is a future reality and until then marriage is a covenant relationship between husband and wife allowed by God.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Lovette said:

“A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ 18 But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’​

reneweddaybyday said:

Yeah, that sounds like more of your "worldly institution" view of marriages.
For all the times you have said you're talking about the "worldly institution" of marriage, I have responded that I am not speaking of your "worldly institution" of marriage.​

Whatever you claim to be “spiritual” is a delusion to make the worldly institution more palatable. You have no valid argument, you’ve just resorted to ad hominem and the emperor’s new clothes.

You keep comparing the "worldly institution" with what God has established and thereby you reveal yourself to be clothed as the emperor to which you refer.


reneweddaybyday said:

Both husband and wife can be bound to Christ, and be married, and serve the Lord without distraction.​

​

Do you really expect me to believe that there are married couples sitting in your church and not one of them is committed to the Lord Jesus Christ???​

I expect you to accept that married stay married, singles stay single. Do not promote earthly marriage in the house of God.

I believe what Jesus taught concerning marriage.

I also believe that if singles want to be married, that should not be barred. My only caution would be that believers should not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. But if a believe is married to an unbeliever, the believer should remain married and if the unbeliever wants to depart, let them depart.


reneweddaybyday said:

The word "trouble" in 1 Corinthians 7:28 is translated from the Greek word thlipsis which means pressure.​

​

Do you know, Lovette, that we serve a God Who promises that nothing shall separate us from the love of Christ and that includes "tribulation" (Greek = thlipsis) (Romans 8:35-39)? ... and that God comforts us in all our tribulations (Greek = thlipsis) so that we may be able to comfort others who are in any trouble (Greek = thlipsis) (2 Corinthians 1:4)?​

Yeah, nothing except a false idol like romantic worldly marriage, which was a 20th century phenomenon.

As long as you compare what God has established concerning marriage with your "worldly marriage", you will never understand marriage as God intended.


1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

nope ... I know from personal experience because my husband and I were already in relationship when his cousin witnessed to us and brought us to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Are you born again, Lovette? If so, then you know the change that occurs in a person's life.​

And I know from the word of God that marriage is for all mankind, not Christians only. Your personal story is purely anectodal.

Nope.

Maybe you're not born again so you do not know about the change that occurs within natural man when he or she is born again.

That is fact ... not anecdotal but, again, maybe you do not know of the change God brings about at the time one is born again.


reneweddaybyday said:

What are you going on about? In our day and time, kids live with their parents after they reach adulthood and you call that "medieval"? Our daughter lived at home until she was married. Our oldest son lived at home until he was married. That is not a "medieval" practice, Lovette.​

You said it was referring a father's disposal of his daughter, don't ask me.

nope ... I clarified your misinterpretation of what is written in 1 Corinthians 7:36-38:

Lovette said:​

The only tragedy is your obsession with marriage, despite your denial.​

​

reneweddaybyday said:​

Speaking the truth of God's Word concerning marriage is not an "obsession with marriage" ... it is an "obsession with" the truth of God's Word ... "despite your denial".​

​

Lovette said:​

The truth of God's Word is that celibacy is a gift, "he who does not give in marriage does BETTER," 1 Cor. 7:38.​

​

reneweddaybyday said:​

1 Corinthians 7:37-38 refer to a father who has a daughter ...​

​

Lovette said:​

Yeah, so a woman just a piece of property to be traded at her father's will? Which century are you living in, medieval?​

​

reneweddaybyday said:​

What are you going on about? In our day and time, kids live with their parents after they reach adulthood and you call that "medieval"? Our daughter lived at home until she was married. Our oldest son lived at home until he was married. That is not a "medieval" practice, Lovette.​

I said if a father gives his daughter in marriage, he does not sin and if he keeps his daughter with him, he does well.

You're so hellbent on your "worldly institution" of marriage that you cannot receive the truth of God's Word.


reneweddaybyday said:

sigh … we're speaking of marriage, Lovette. If there is a marriage, there are two spouses. I guess you haven't ferreted that out yet have you, Sherlock?​

No, we're speaking of the IDOLATRY of marriage. Your "if" is just a baseless assumption.

... would you ever refer to a single man as a "husband"? ... or a single woman as a "wife"?

And your "IDOLATRY" is wholly on your part as you're the one who keeps equating the "worldly institution" of marriage with what God established.

That's your busines which I asked nothing about.

Here's the discussion, Lovette:

Lovette said:​

I ask you again, if you never had the opportunity to meet anybody, while everybody else around you seem to have their luck, would you still worship God?​

​

reneweddaybyday said:​

yes.​

​

Lovette said:​

Liar.​

​

reneweddaybyday said:​

I am not married now and I worship God. My husband worshipped God while he was alive. I worshipped God while he was alive. We also gasp worshipped God together.​

​

Lovette said:​

That's your busines which I asked nothing about.​

Just clarifying who is the one who is the “liar”.

From a godly standpoint, God himself never married

Oh, really? You might want to reconsider your error.


reneweddaybyday said:

You don't believe now, even though you have been shown from God's Word ... you hold the world in higher esteem than God's Word.​

​

Trying to explain to you the marriage relationship established by God is like trying to explain to an unbeliever that peace with God is not the same as cessation of conflict in the world. The believer is afforded peace through the Lord Jesus Christ in the midst of conflict.​

And the believer is also smart enough to avoid such conflict in the first place.

Well, we do have an adversary who walks about seeking whom he may devour and the believer is empowered to endure.


reneweddaybyday said:

We weren't talking about the sadducees. We were talking about the Olivet Discourse. You keep bringing the sadducees into the Olivet Discourse, but the sadduccees were not there. Jesus was answering questions asked of him by His disciples (Matthew 24:3 “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately,saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

The disciples came to Jesus privately ... there were no sadducees, pharisees, chief priests, scribes, elders involved in the discussion.

And, I again clarify ... I do not worship marriage, I worship God Who established the marriage relationship.​

Then why are you so vehemently arguing for your earthly attachment when you should've been watching out for the signs of his coming, speaking of the Olivet Discourse?

Do you now agree that the sadducees were not present during the Olivet Discourse?


reneweddaybyday said:

Nope. The mention of "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage" refers to the every day goings on in life. Jesus would have used terms such as gluttony and drunkenness if He had meant "excessive eating and drinking".​

Yes, it is referring to gluttony and drunkenness at the fateful time where you should've been watching out for the signs of his coming. It's about the attitude of gross negligence.

You and I are not in agreement on this point ... best you let it go.

The model for marriage established by God is arranged marriage, God made Eve for Adam and joined them together.

The joining of Adam and Eve was a one-time event ... just as what happened to Paul on the road to Damascus. Do you insist that if a born again believer did not have the same experience Paul had on the road to Damascus they are not born again?

If you or anybody married on your own initiative, don't call that godly, that'd be taking the Lord's name in vain, and the error is all yours.

The marriage covenant entered into between husband and wife does not mean they are "taking the Lord's name in vain". That error is all yours.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It is a folly to have blinded followed the life script the world prescribed to you and put a Christian label on it.

It is folly for you to equate the "world prescribed" marriage with the marriage relationship God established.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You're lying by omission.

Correcting your misinterpretation of Scripture is not "lying".

In all these verses, it states a man should be joined to his WIFE - not girlfriend, companion or fiancee, at that point they were already married. But how did she become his wife in the first place?

Already explained to you ...

we live in a sinful and broken world, currently with a hostility and a distrust between men and women. Dating is all about your own feelings, anything godly is just your sanctimony. If you date that leads to marriage, it's not godly; if a marriage's godly, it can't be the result of dating.

Says the one who holds to the "worldly institution" of marriage. Good luck with that.

.

 

[Lovette]

You err in comparing the marriage relationship established by God with the "earthly marriage".

Was your marriage arranged as Adam's? Or Isaac's? If not, it's earthly.

reneweddaybyday said:

Do you believe the tabernacle in the wilderness was unnecessary or unneeded because the tabernacle was only a foreshadow of the heavenly Holy of Holies?​

Not an answer to the question, Lovette. Do you believe the tabernacle in the wilderness was unnecessary because the tabernacle was only a foreshadow of the heavenly Holy of Holies?

Do you believe is it still necessary to rebuild the tabernacle and worship god in it despite Jesus’s teaching of worshiping in spirit and truth?

reneweddaybyday said:

The wife does not "have to seek validation from a husband" nor does the husband "have to seek validation from" a wife in order to have a vibrant, vital relationship with the Lord.​

​

That is one of your erroneous beliefs which is being corrected.​

If a couple decides they want to get married, why not get married? It is not sin to be married.

No, but they'll have trouble in the flesh. And don't call it godly when it's themselves not God that joins them together.

What is "reproachable" is your continued insistence that the "wordly marriage" is the same was what God established as the marriage relationship.

Was your marriage arranged as Adam's? Or Isaac's? If not, it's earthly.

reneweddaybyday said:

When the Lord Jesus Christ told the pharisees that Moses allowed for divorce, He specifically pointed out divorce was "because of the hardness of your hearts".​

​

When both husband and wife have been given a new heart when born again, it is totally possible for both husband and wife to live together without the "hardness of heart".​

View attachment 296865


reneweddaybyday said:

I hope and pray you will learn the difference between your "worldly institution" view of marriage and the marriage relationship ordained by God.​

Continuing in prayer for God to open your eyes/heart concerning marriage. And I'm not advocating that you should get married ... I'm advocating that you should not insist that your "worldly institution" view of marriage is the same as God's view of marriage.

As long as it requires a certificate from a worldly government and involves countless world services, it's a worldly institution.

reneweddaybyday said:

When the laws established by the government do not conflict with God's Word, yes, one does "have it both ways".​

Again reiterating Acts 5:29 "We ought to obey God rather than men."

.

Then marriage is a worldly institution as long as it requires a certificate from a worldly government .

 

[Lovette]

That is a future reality and until then marriage is a covenant relationship between husband and wife allowed by God.

.

Allowed by God, yes. Foreshadowing of the union with Christ, no.

 

[Burn1986]

Was your marriage arranged as Adam's? Or Isaac's? If not, it's earthly.


Do you believe is it still necessary to rebuild the tabernacle and worship god in it despite Jesus’s teaching of worshiping in spirit and truth?

No, but they'll have trouble in the flesh. And don't call it godly when it's themselves not God that joins them together.

Was your marriage arranged as Adam's? Or Isaac's? If not, it's earthly.

As long as it requires a certificate from a worldly government and involves countless world services, it's a worldly institution.

Then marriage is a worldly institution as long as it requires a certificate from a worldly government .

Nothing wrong with marriage. Again, not everyone has to marry. Lovette, why are you so angry? You’re kind of raging a little over this.