Was the Sabbath (7th day) abolished?

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Someone started this thread with a question that wasn't really a question.

Someone started this thread with an axe to grind.

Someone reeeeaaaaaally likes to debate.

>.>

<.<
 
Yes the written form of the Mosaic laws, including that of the 10 Commandments were the ministry of death because the written ordinances that came along with many of those laws was to be put to death. Including working on the Sabbath, however the Lord made clear that those ordinances of laws no longer apply to us who are in Him.
He also made a point that the moral laws of God that are contained within the 10 commandments still do apply to us, as well did Paul confirm this in Romans 13:9. Both Jesus and Paul made a point that by walking in love, His moral laws will be written in our hearts as a natural way of life and not a set of ordinances. For in love you will not want to do any of the wrong mentioned in the law.

We however are not bound to the 613 Mosaic laws under the new covenant as Acts 15 makes clear. This being said though just because we being in Christ are not under the law, does not give a free reign to sin or that sin no longer applies to us. Repentance and confession still have to be made to be cleansed of our unrighteousness, and to end up being spotless before God.

when did cornelius repent and confess his sin. acts 10 (would you need to know the law, so who told him the law.)

"You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.Acts 10

read the rest of acts 10 to see what was said to get the holy spirit


who told a gentile the law or 10 commands .

what law should we give a gentile.
acts 15
19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.Acts 15

again they could have said the 10 commands
these point were also brought up at this meeting.
1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."2

5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."


again v 19- 20
 
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sir, have you sinned since being saved?
did the holy spirit depart from you? if so, you were forsaken.
did you need to get saved again?

are you sealed then unsealed then sealed then unsealed each time you receive the truth of Christ's work by faith - then sin?

Yes the Holy Spirit does depart when I sin, any who think the Holy Spirit stays with them during thir sin I would think has never tasted of the Holy Spirit of YHWH.

this modern doctrine of I accepted Jesus now nothing I do is sin and I dont have to ask for mercy is:

1 Timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaks very plainly, that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared as with a hot iron."

For this is sound doctrine;

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

people do not lost their Salvation back and forth, because none have yet received Salvation, we have become a new man/woman, but none have entered in yet;

Hebrews 3:14 ESV
"For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end."

Revelation 2:10 ESV
"Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Romans 13:11-14 ESV
Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

Matthew 10:22 ESV
"And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

1 Corinthians 10:13 ESV
"No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it."

Revelation 2:17 ESV
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers (overcomes) I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it."

Revelation 2:7 ESV
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers (overcomes) I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."

James 1:12 ESV
"Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him."

confirmed in the mouth of more than 3 witnesses...

Messiah has received eternal redemption, unless there are people eating from the tree of life and the kingdom has already arrived..... Messiah does 2 works, 1st coming and 2nd coming,
 
Whatever is not of faith is sin. The law is not of faith.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Galatians 3:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

We are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

How does that happen? By Faith!!

yet Paul says he followed the Law and the Messiah said to do and teach it..... this is pointless, the heart will choose its way.
 
yet Paul says he followed the Law and the Messiah said to do and teach it..... this is pointless, the heart will choose its way.
gentiles was not jewish, so were never tied to the temple of stone. jewish were, and this was what paul told them, save a gift not law but throught jesus christ.
act 15,


5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."

paul was not alive at 70 ad.


no body was alive when the bible went to print. yet you clear drag back 70 ad.
 
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gentiles was not jewish, so was never tied to the temple of stone.
act 15,


5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."

paul was not alive at 70 ad.


no body was alive when the bible went to print. yet you clear drag back 70 ad.

Acts 15 was about enter a place of worship, ohh and didnt the letter to the Gentiles say no meat with blood in it? Is that another thing to ignore too?

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

There is only one way, and that is through the Messiah, Hebrew or grafted in Gentile, there is and always has been only one set of Instructions...

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Romans 2:15, "Since they show that the requirements of the Law are written in their hearts, their conscience also bears witness, and their thoughts now accuse or else try to excuse them."

626 - apologeomai
apologeomai: to give an account of oneself, hence to defend oneself
Original Word: ἀπολογέομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apologeomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-og-eh'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I give a defense, defend myself
Definition: I give a defense, defend myself (especially in a law court): it can take an object of what is said in defense.
 
Acts 15 was about enter a place of worship, ohh and didnt the letter to the Gentiles say no meat with blood in it? Is that another thing to ignore too?

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

There is only one way, and that is through the Messiah, Hebrew or grafted in Gentile, there is and always has been only one set of Instructions...

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Romans 2:15, "Since they show that the requirements of the Law are written in their hearts, their conscience also bears witness, and their thoughts now accuse or else try to excuse them."

626 - apologeomai
apologeomai: to give an account of oneself, hence to defend oneself
Original Word: ἀπολογέομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apologeomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-og-eh'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I give a defense, defend myself
Definition: I give a defense, defend myself (especially in a law court): it can take an object of what is said in defense.
70 ad

all jewish at pentecost. so already were tied to the requirements of law. what do you think paul was telling peter in Galatians wrote about 60 ad.

12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?"

if it was the same law , he would have said read your bible because i wrote it in that.

acts 10 send for peter. see the difference.
 
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In OT people must make animal sacrifice and not in NT.

Is that mean we not obey the commandment?

OT is figurative from NT. The real Sabbath is Jesus Christ, the real sacrifice is Jesus.
 
70 ad

all jewish at pentecost. so already were tied to the requirements of law. what do you think paul was telling peter in Galatians wrote about 60 ad.

12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?"

if it was the same law , he would have said read your bible because i wrote it in that.

acts 10 send for peter. see the difference.

lol what does 70 ad have to do with anything? ????

Messiah said:

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

if it was the same law , he would have said read your bible because i wrote it in that.

acts 10 send for peter. see the difference.

and what is you point about Acts 10? Acts 10 is about Jews not being discriminatory against gentiles:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. [SUP]18 [/SUP]They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision

He did not yet understand the meaning how could you or I know the meaning by verse 17?, the holy Spirit did not yet reveal it:


[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision

[SUP]19 [/SUP]While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men are looking for you.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.
The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the believers from Joppa went along. [SUP]
24 [/SUP]The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. [SUP]
25 [/SUP]As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”

"the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men"

Remember?


[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision
[SUP]19 [/SUP]While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men are looking for you.


19 Now while Kepha was thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him; Behold, three men seek you.
If he did not yet know the meaning how could we?

20 Arise therefore, and go below and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them.


Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

The Spirit spoke:

[SUP]19 [/SUP]While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three men are looking for you.

and the same Spirit that spoke there also spoke here:

Leviticus 19:34, "The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh."
 
The confusion on this comes by how the Sabbath is now observed in the NT, as the same standards does not apply from the OT. Plus the other thing people need to look at when it comes to study by looking into the scriptures. One will see that the Apostles used Saturday to bring in new converts, and used Sunday as the day they gathered together for worship.

Friend, as i have read in the book of Acts, of the Apostles and Christians, it is written that they met/gathered everyday.

Please refresh me with Scripture quote, that what you testify is of Truth, about the Apostle's Saturdays on new converts and Sundays in worship.

This would be a help to all of us, thank you.
 
Someone started this thread with a question that wasn't really a question.

Someone started this thread with an axe to grind.

Someone reeeeaaaaaally likes to debate.

>.>

<.<

And if you don't, there are literally thousands of forums you can go to beside this one.
 
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Romans 2:15, "Since they show that the requirements of the Law are written in their hearts, their conscience also bears witness, and their thoughts now accuse or else try to excuse them."

626 - apologeomai
apologeomai: to give an account of oneself, hence to defend oneself
Original Word: ἀπολογέομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apologeomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-og-eh'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I give a defense, defend myself
Definition: I give a defense, defend myself (especially in a law court): it can take an object of what is said in defense.

You are confused on what is written on our hearts and how and why we are Gods People. Its not the letter of the law that is written on our hearts. Its love. Love is Gods Law that is written on our hearts. This is what is written on our hearts;

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Those are the attributes in our hearts, and inward parts, that cause us to be Gods People. Those are the attributes that establish the law by our faith. Because it is only by faith in the Lord Jesus that these attributes are given and cultivated. It is only by faith and these fruit of the spirit that cause us to be under grace and not law.

Because working at the law does not grow the fruit of the spirit. Working at the law grows more working at the law which points out sin (iniquity).

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Its not because the Lord took away the condemnation of the law but left the letter. Its because the Lord Jesus fulfills the law in us, by the Holy Spirit. That is our rest. Our rest from our work.

That is why the Lord Jesus Christ is our Sabbath. You think by not being under the law and not "keeping" the sabbath that we despise it. Its not true. We establish it, by faith.
 
You are confused on what is written on our hearts and how and why we are Gods People. Its not the letter of the law that is written on our hearts. Its love. Love is Gods Law that is written on our hearts. This is what is written on our hearts;

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Those are the attributes in our hearts, and inward parts, that cause us to be Gods People. Those are the attributes that establish the law by our faith. Because it is only by faith in the Lord Jesus that these attributes are given and cultivated. It is only by faith and these fruit of the spirit that cause us to be under grace and not law.

Because working at the law does not grow the fruit of the spirit. Working at the law grows more working at the law which points out sin (iniquity).

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Its not because the Lord took away the condemnation of the law but left the letter. Its because the Lord Jesus fulfills the law in us, by the Holy Spirit. That is our rest. Our rest from our work.

That is why the Lord Jesus Christ is our Sabbath. You think by not being under the law and not "keeping" the sabbath that we despise it. Its not true. We establish it, by faith.

Let's do a little fact checking here Grandpa...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I

Law:

H8451

תֹּרָה תּוֹרָה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Total KJV occurrences: 219

Well, would you look at that? Hiz had it correct after all.
 
and, any honest christian will say and confess that they know, love and desire God's moral law, because the law is good....for learning and knowing his will and character.

the bible is crystal clear that no one is saved by the law. it can not save.
and as someone has already noted, just as we can make idols of anything, people can revise the 4th commandment (leaving out the requirements laid out in exodus and leviticus), placing it above the greatest commandment.


3"Little children, I am with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, now I also say to you, 'Where I am going, you cannot come.' 34"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

he said our love for each other would demonstrate that we are his disciples.
this would have been a very good time for Jesus to say something about sabbath - yet he never did, and the Holy Spirit did not bring to the apostle's remeberence anything he had commanded christians (gentiles for certain) about keeping sabbath per mosaic law. if he had, it would be taught in the new testament, and it is not.

liberty, however, is:)
 
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

if God's law in our hearts according to the new covenant includes the entire old covenant (torah) with all the ceremonial law, why aren't were bringing animal sacrifices to the temple?

he means that we keep the whole of his word in our hearts, as it is the story of Jesus and God's plan and character. if we know his character and holiness, we know what is right and wrong. if we are unsure, we refer to the new covenant, which Jesus entrusted to his apostles.

no temple, no animals, no mosaic sabbath taught.

i have seen the argument that christians who believe the sabbath was a shadow of Jesus Christ and the rest he brings to hopeless sinners think the sabbath was changed.

this may be true for the catholic church, i am not an expert on their dogmatics.

but it's not what protestants believe, to the best of my knowledge.
 
We need to bear in mind that there is a distinction between what was called the "Law of Moses", and the "Law of God".
One was placed in the Ark of the Covenant, and the one by side of the Ark of the Covenant. One was nailed to the cross, the other was said of "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass than for one tittle of the Law to FAIL"
 
In scripture, we are told to Remember two things, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy"
& the [The Lord's Table] "This do in Remembrance of Me"
When we ask someone to remember something, we have the fear that they will forget.
Many today say that they believe in the 7th day as the true Sabbath, but keeping it Holy is another thing, of which I am guilty myself.
Breaking one Commandment is to be guilty of them all.
Its like a man being held by up a chain of 10 links.
Breaking any one, down you will come.
The "Law of Moses", also known as the "Ceremonial Law" was nailed to the cross, but the "Law of God", also known as the "Royal Law" by which we shall be judged, NOT UNTO CONDEMNATION [For that was done in the body of Christ on the cross], but for our works to receive reward, that Law of God is engrafted on the tables of the heart by the Spirit of God.
 
lol what does 70 ad have to do with anything? ????

Messiah said:

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."



and what is you point about Acts 10? Acts 10 is about Jews not being discriminatory against gentiles:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. [SUP]18 [/SUP]They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision

He did not yet understand the meaning how could you or I know the meaning by verse 17?, the holy Spirit did not yet reveal it:


[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision

[SUP]19 [/SUP]While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men are looking for you.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.
The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the believers from Joppa went along. [SUP]
24 [/SUP]The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. [SUP]
25 [/SUP]As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”

"the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men"

Remember?


[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision
[SUP]19 [/SUP]While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men are looking for you.


19 Now while Kepha was thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him; Behold, three men seek you.
If he did not yet know the meaning how could we?

20 Arise therefore, and go below and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them.


Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

The Spirit spoke:

[SUP]19 [/SUP]While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three men are looking for you.

and the same Spirit that spoke there also spoke here:

Leviticus 19:34, "The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh."

"If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?




( 70 ad) it means everything you just said is pointless. if the jewish can t follow the full law given to them.

why are you using law as a guide , you need a temple of stone to follow this law fully.

21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

it never passed away, thats why it wrote via history. and came to us all after 1500ad as what we call the christian bible, believer in jesus christ.

are you using your minds eye to understand things that are in the bible. then why do you edit out 70 ad.

for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
 
the bible is crystal clear that no one is saved by the law. it can not save.
and as someone has already noted, just as we can make idols of anything, people can revise the 4th commandment (leaving out the requirements laid out in exodus and leviticus), placing it above the greatest commandment.

No amount of Law keeping or obedience can save anyone...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Eternal life is an unearned (yet very costly) gift...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The gift of God is eternal life. Yet, notice the first half of the verse? Eternal life is not given to one who lives in willful sin...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

What God really wants from us is for us to build holy, righteous character. He wants us to choose right and do right. This is where Satan failed...

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Satan could no longer be trusted to carry out God's will. He wants us to develop character so that 50,000 years from now (or 5 million or 20 bazillion, time is irrelevant to eternity) we will continue to carry out God's will and not end in ruin as Satan did.

Character is not a gift, character is built in trials. This is why we are told this...

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

James enlightens us here...

Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
 
What then is the purpose of the Law? The law simply defines right and wrong...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Paul affirms this...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So, we learn that transgressing the Law is wrong, it is sin. Then what is right and good?

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Obedience to the Law is right and good.

Again, Paul affirms this...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

What the Law does for us is show us right from wrong. Obedience does not save us, it builds the character in us that will make us useful and valuable in the Kingdom.

I have never said that Law keeping saves and never will. Christ's resurrection, His life saves us through grace.