What is hyper grace........

[Grace777x70]

Yes. I see the distinction you are making and I think it's a valid one, but the verse you posted kinda makes my point. If they began in the Spirit, then they have the Spirit. Paul is telling them that they are foolish for trying to perfect themselves in the flesh, not that they are unsaved.

I agree...I believe that walking after the flesh does not make one "unsaved" as in going to heaven because we are sealed with the Holy Spirit after we believed the message of our salvation which is in Christ alone. Eph. 1:13

There is good flesh and bad flesh. The hypocrisy is that those with the "good flesh" look down on those with the "bad flesh". The good flesh will exhibit malice and slander others in the body of Christ - insult them, demean them..etc.

The list of the good flesh and the bad flesh are in the exact same verses.

Walking after the flesh does produce a consequence in this earth. Take up shooting heroin in your arms ( bad flesh ) and that truth of this fact will be manifested rather quickly. The "good flesh" ( malice, slander, hypocrisy ) will still bring destruction - but it is a different kind of manifestation.

 

[PeterJens]

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4:7

Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.
Titus 1:8

Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:14

But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do
1 Peter 1:15

we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2

 

[HisHolly]

I can be Christ like. But I WILL NEVER be like him..

How does this make sense to anyone? If people actually took time to learn of Him as He instructed, instead of reading the Bible as a book, teaching would be completely different

 

[Depleted]

I agree that it is God who changes us from the very start to the finish - which I have posted dozens of times. As we have received Christ our Lord - we are to walk in Him. Col. 2:6

You obviously have very little understanding of what I in fact do say because I am the one that is always saying we live by the life of Christ in us and as we behold the glory ( goodness) of the Lord as in a mirror - the Holy Spirit transforms us from glory to glory. I have said this about 100x times in threads. I have posted 2 Cor. 3:17-18 over 100x times.

I'm sure the babes in Christ are growing from listening to the Spirit of God within them witnessing to the beauty and the simplicity that is in the Lord. They are learning of the grace and love of their Father towards them. They are learning of the faithfulness of the Lord Jesus Christ towards them.

You are entitled to your opinion but I will never leave the Lord Jesus Christ for religion. It is such a poor substitute for knowing Him.

Thank you for praying for me. I too pray for you as well.

Ephesians 1:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

Have you yet notice? When I do respond to you, (which isn't very often, because you too go on and on with your false teaching and seem to think changing it into bold, multi-colors and flopping in scripture to confirm your personal beliefs is how to converse), I take your opening sentence -- your premise, supposedly the topic sentence -- and prove that is wrong.

If the premise is wrong, why read the rest?

And, like Cee, you spend too much time proving your personal opinion (or, what you copy/paste or videos from hyper grace sites that you agree with -- same thing) and then defending yourself the rest of the time. I have no intention of proving to you this is true, because you can't (or won't) see it.

I said what I meant to say. Yes, you do teach a false gospel (by just one-degree off, but it misses the target intentionally after that), but it does bother me that you are free to keep teaching that, while we are no longer free to say it is a lie!

And your comebacks every time we do show it is a lie? When charged with A, you come back with "When did I ever say B?" Or your other false plea that "Show me one person who believes X, Y, Z" Seems silly, since what you do is bring one-degree-of-separation and then demand to see the 180-degrees-of-separation. I've been showing you the one-degree for the last few days. And look what you've done with that once again.

Believe whatever you want to believe. Just stop teaching the garbage!

 

[PeterJens]

You need to be more clear. How can anyone understand what you believe.

You made an accusation that people (namely HG) believes you can be gods children and not be obedient,

I asked you to name one person if you can.

You have yet to name one person. And here you just admitted, no one can be obedient to all of Gods commands.. So you teach the very thing you condem others of teaching, So which is it?

Let us be constructive here. In discussions in the past people have denied the sermon
on the mount applies to them. The question is now is do these people now hold to this
position or have now moved?

I am not here to say the who, I am pointing out what has happened and asking you,
EG are you in submission to the sermon on the mount. It appears that you are, which
again is progress on our interactions in the past.

I think you as normal miss-understand me. I am only sharing my heart and my perspective.
If you want to make this into something else that is your affair, I am not one to give the
why or how, just to give glory to Christs teaching.

And the reason I do not name call, because it is counter productive. I just want to grow in
grace and submission to His word, Praise the Lord.

 

[PeterJens]

I can be Christ like. But I WILL NEVER be like him..

we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2

John is saying we will be like Jesus.

I think you are suggesting you do not know Jesus, because John is saying all believers
will be like Him.

 

[Willie-T]

we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2

John is saying we will be like Jesus.

I think you are suggesting you do not know Jesus, because John is saying all believers
will be like Him.

While you are still living this life on Earth?

 

[Grace777x70]

Have you yet notice? When I do respond to you, (which isn't very often, because you too go on and on with your false teaching and seem to think changing it into bold, multi-colors and flopping in scripture to confirm your personal beliefs is how to converse), I take your opening sentence -- your premise, supposedly the topic sentence -- and prove that is wrong.

If the premise is wrong, why read the rest?

And, like Cee, you spend too much time proving your personal opinion (or, what you copy/paste or videos from hyper grace sites that you agree with -- same thing) and then defending yourself the rest of the time. I have no intention of proving to you this is true, because you can't (or won't) see it.

I said what I meant to say. Yes, you do teach a false gospel (by just one-degree off, but it misses the target intentionally after that), but it does bother me that you are free to keep teaching that, while we are no longer free to say it is a lie!

And your comebacks every time we do show it is a lie? When charged with A, you come back with "When did I ever say B?" Or your other false plea that "Show me one person who believes X, Y, Z" Seems silly, since what you do is bring one-degree-of-separation and then demand to see the 180-degrees-of-separation. I've been showing you the one-degree for the last few days. And look what you've done with that once again.

Believe whatever you want to believe. Just stop teaching the garbage!

Again Lynn - you are free to have your own opinion. Bless you!

My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.

My hope is built on nothing less
than Jesus' blood and righteousness
I dare not trust the sweetest frame
but wholly trust in Jesus' name


Christ alone, Cornerstone
Weak made strong, in the Savior's love
Through the storm
He is Lord, Lord of All

When darkness seems to hide His face
I rest on His unchanging grace
In every high and stormy gale
My anchor holds within the veil

My anchor holds within the veil .

[video=youtube;nZq9xTfHvgo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZq9xTfHvgo[/video]

 

[PeterJens]

I find this exchange odd, as I follow Jesus and His word, how can it be that I am
made fun of and mocked for believing and following the word.

It makes me believe that maybe I know Gods word and heart better.

Knowing the word is only part of communion, walking in love is most of it all.
When I first came to cc, people were surprised at my emphasis on love.

I wonder how many would still hold to this surprise. Jesus preached love from
beginning to end, and gave us a new command, to love one another as He has
loved us.

Now I understand the experiences people have had and listen to their contributions.
Amen that we all grow in experience and grace. The Lord has been very gracious to me
and I have seen myself go from different theological understandings that probably were
not very helpful. I have seen very blessed people become very convicted about healing
and Gods blessing, only to die from cancer, which they claimed they would be healed of,
which is just a denial of what God did and was saying.

So I want to be cautious, and share on what the word teaches and what my heart convicts.

So Praise the Lord, and may we continue to walk in His ways, everyday of our lives until
we meet face to face.

 

[PeterJens]

While you are still living this life on Earth?

It appears this is what Paul, Peter, John etc are all saying is possible.
The issue is our perception of what this is, is very worldly and not where
the Lords heart is.

To put this in perspective, how Holy do you feel today?
Peter and Paul both call us to be Holy, yet we dismiss this so quickly out of our
language without asking, what do they mean, and how are we failing?

Gods people are Holy, but our recognition of this is often lacking, and our
sensitivity to the worlds ways blinds us to the ways of the Lord.

 

[Stephen63]

Who? A legalist who tries to earn his salvation by works? According to the bible NO. How can they be saved when they REJECT the grace of god and try to REPLACE it by works?

As paul said like they jews, they did not seek it by faith, But by works (it does not matter if it is works of the law or whatever work one does, A work is a work is a work) thus they have not attained the righteousness of God.

how can you be saved if you have not attained Gods righteousness, Which is by FAITH, and not by WORKS if you DO NOT HAVE FAITH?

edit, just to note.

A legalist is no more saved than a licentious person, who turns the grace of God to licentiousness (see Jude)

Both have rejected grace due to pride. One saying he has to earn it, the other failing to repent of his condition.

And there you have it. Those they deem as legalists are NOT saved. His own words.

1. Legalists are strawmen for the hypergrace crowd. They do not exist in the BDF.

Those they CALL legalists are christians that FULLY depend on the grace of God for their salvation, BUT..... as scripture states, must bring forth fruit of righteousness or be cut off.

EVERYBODY I KNOW that's against hypergrace believes like this, or at least the same way concerning grace.

Hypergrace doctrine states EMPHATICALLY that whoever accepts Christ is saved, PERIOD. Yet, EG now says that's not so.

This is how they make their statements saying we're not even saved, EVEN THOUGH we've received Christ the same way they did.

This is what is known as talking outta both sides of their mouth.

Now, some of them will say something like "yeah, they're saved, but they're not enjoying the full grace of God. But they STILL treat us as not saved.

They also justify slamming these "legalists", believing they're serving the Devil.

This is HYPOCRISY, plain & simple.

I have caught them in this lie several times, & they still say the same thing. Shameful.

The just shall LIVE by faith​

 

[PeterJens]

When you walk down a street, or road, do you see Christ walking down that road?

Jesus does, in the work He has done in our hearts. But we so easily condemn ourselves
and dismiss the very work Jesus has done and want only to be seen as the world sees others
rather than the precious love He has planted within us.

 

[Willie-T]

And there you have it. Those they deem as legalists are NOT saved. His own words.

1. Legalists are strawmen for the hypergrace crowd. They do not exist in the BDF.

Those they CALL legalists are christians that FULLY depend on the grace of God for their salvation, BUT..... as scripture states, must bring forth fruit of righteousness or be cut off.

EVERYBODY I KNOW that's against hypergrace believes like this, or at least the same way concerning grace.

Hypergrace doctrine states EMPHATICALLY that whoever accepts Christ is saved, PERIOD. Yet, EG now says that's not so.

This is how they make their statements saying we're not even saved, EVEN THOUGH we've received Christ the same way they did.

This is what is known as talking outta both sides of their mouth.

Now, some of them will say something like "yeah, they're saved, but they're not enjoying the full grace of God. But they STILL treat us as not saved.

They also justify slamming these "legalists", believing they're serving the Devil.

This is HYPOCRISY, plain & simple.

I have caught them in this lie several times, & they still say the same thing. Shameful.

The just shall LIVE by faith​

.... plus a bit of rule-keeping........... just in case Jesus was shucking and jiving us, and faith really isn't enough. LOL

 

[PeterJens]

.... plus a bit of rule-keeping........... just in case Jesus was shucking and jiving us, and faith really isn't enough. LOL

This just makes me weep. When you learn to drive the rules tell you what is safe
and what is not, before you have learnt the why and how limited we all are when
driving a car and how brakes etc work. But after you have learnt the limitations,
the rules merely reflect what you already know, so you obey because you know
now what it means to be safe.

So the idea of mocking righteousness and good behaviour comes when the reasons
and heart are not there. It is why I do not mock any legalist for keeping the rules
just when they break them, because that is their failure. Look at Jesus's criticism of
the pharisees.

Do what they tell you to do, do not do what they do, because they are hypocrites.

 

[Willie-T]

This just makes me weep. When you learn to drive the rules tell you what is safe
and what is not, before you have learnt the why and how limited we all are when
driving a car and how brakes etc work. But after you have learnt the limitations,
the rules merely reflect what you already know, so you obey because you know
now what it means to be safe.

So the idea of mocking righteousness and good behaviour comes when the reasons
and heart are not there. It is why I do not mock any legalist for keeping the rules
just when they break them, because that is their failure. Look at Jesus's criticism of
the pharisees.

Do what they tell you to do, do not do what they do, because they are hypocrites.

I don't mock them for trying to follow rules. We all try to do that.
And we all fail.

I DO mock them for saying that perfectly following rules is a requirement for Salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How does this make sense to anyone? If people actually took time to learn of Him as He instructed, instead of reading the Bible as a book, teaching would be completely different

1. Jesus lived from birth till death and did not go against God 1 time, he always put others above himself. and he never made 1 mistake.

2. No man can make this claim.

3. Yet here we have people saying they can be just like him.

see my problem. How can you claimm YOU KNOW JESUS, then say you ARE JUST LIKE HIM?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let us be constructive here. In discussions in the past people have denied the sermon
on the mount applies to them. The question is now is do these people now hold to this
position or have now moved?

WHO?? YOU HAVE MADE THIS CLAIM MULTIPLE TIMES NOW. WHO HAS MADE THIS CLAIM.

we will not be able to move forward until you answer this question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2

John is saying we will be like Jesus.

I think you are suggesting you do not know Jesus, because John is saying all believers
will be like Him.

When Christ appears, I will be like him, when I see him face to face.

Until then, I will keep marching toward the mark. But never be to proud to think I have made it. I will live under Gods grace until then.

You have not seen Christ yet, If you think you are just like him, You are in serious trouble

 

[eternally-gratefull]

While you are still living this life on Earth?

I guess he already saw Christ face to face..

maybe that answers our questions about him?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And there you have it. Those they deem as legalists are NOT saved. His own words.

Actually Legalists are pharisees, DO yu think a pharisee (modern day or not) is saved?

1. Legalists are strawmen for the hypergrace crowd. They do not exist in the BDF.

lol, Keep thinking this.. You are wrong.

Those they CALL legalists are christians that FULLY depend on the grace of God for their salvation, BUT..... as scripture states, must bring forth fruit of righteousness or be cut off.

See how you just contradicted yourself. You claim you are FULLY dependent on Gods grace, Then you went 180 degrees, and said you must depend on YOURSELF having the ability to bring forth fruit.

So lets see how honest you are.

I believe a child of God will produce fruit, As a result of his salvation. (as apposed to a legalist who says salvation is RESULT of fruit bearing)

A person who has not been saved will not produce fruit.

am I wrong?