When Did The Church Begin

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Dino246 said:
When did the Church begin?

Well, "church" (English) = "ekklesia" (Greek) which, literally translated, means "called-out ones". It's a Greek term, not a Hebrew term, and the equivalent doesn't appear in the Old Testament. It is first used in Matthew 16:18, where Jesus says, "I will build My church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." That is future tense, so I don't think it's reasonable to say it began prior to that point. :)
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But then doesn't that mean that Adam and Eve, Abel, Noah, Abraham, and all "called-out ones" from the OT weren't part of God's building project?
 
Depleted said:
But then doesn't that mean that Adam and Eve, Abel, Noah, Abraham, and all "called-out ones" from the OT weren't part of God's building project?
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It doesn't at all. I'm focusing on the corporate term, not on the individual members thereof. :)
 
Boy how do we see the difference between Israel who sought a kingdom of God on the earth and the church which Christ is building?

Israel is still waiting the coming kingdom and the church is still being added to daily by Christ.

Did Jehovah God ever promise to go and prepare a place for Israel? Jesus did for the church. Ever wonder why Israel has different expectations than the church? I know we are all saved by grace and not by works but we still have a different perspective of eternity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Actually Lynn, you are right and I am wrong. The Church starts with the prophets, and Enoch was a prophet.

And Noah and Abel probably were prophets also.
 
Spurgeoncy said:
The consensus is that the Church started with Adam and Eve.

I don't know. Maybe!

The Bible says the Church is founded on the Apostles + Prophets, and the Cornerstone is Christ.

The first prophet mentioned in the Bible is Abraham, and Jesus and Stephen tell us

(John 8:56, Acts 7:2)

that it was Jesus who sat down to eat with Abraham in Mesopotamia, (Genesis 18).


So that says to me that the foundation of the Church and the Foundation of Israel are one and the same thing.
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agree - but when did the deceased saints enter into it?
 
Were the OT believers born again? The congregation on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2, received holy spirit within - they became partakers of the divine nature - the "church" now is made up of born again believers who are filled with the gift of holy spirit and have "spirit" born within them - the new creation . . . there is NO language regarding the OT believers being born again sons of God. Therefore I believe the church Jesus was talking about building is the church that began on Pentecost and those born of one Spirit into one body. The mystery which was hid for ages and generations but was revealed to Paul.

mho . . . :)
 
zone said:
agree - but when did the deceased saints enter into it?
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Jude 1 14 It was also about these that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “See, the Lord is coming with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all, and to convict everyone of all the deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

However, in the spirit of rightly dividing the word of God, I have decided that Jude is apocryphal, and therefore my theory is the right one.....(joke!!!)
 
peacefulbeliever said:
Were the OT believers born again? The congregation on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2, received holy spirit within - they became partakers of the divine nature - the "church" now is made up of born again believers who are filled with the gift of holy spirit and have "spirit" born within them - the new creation . . . there is NO language regarding the OT believers being born again sons of God. Therefore I believe the church Jesus was talking about building is the church that began on Pentecost and those born of one Spirit into one body. The mystery which was hid for ages and generations but was revealed to Paul.

mho . . . :)
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Agreed. The Old Testament saints were not at their time of death part of the body of Christ. They were not:

1. Washed in the blood of the Lamb
2. Made new creatures in Christ
3. Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise
4. Born again
5. Made sinless
6. Spiritually circumcised from the flesh
7. Absent from the body, present with the Lord

If they were, they would have gone directly into the presence of the Lord upon death. The NT church started at Pentecost. Some were getting baptized by water. Some were getting hands laid upon them. Some simply listened to the preaching of the Apostles. Not until the Lord called out Paul did we get grounded in one way, through believing the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins, no baptism, no laying on of hands, just belief. That is why the book of Acts is shaky ground to be used as a doctrinal book.

Proof text that there were some in Christ before Paul:

Romans 16:7, Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
 
David talks much about the Lord's Spirit - and he was priest of the order of Melchezedek.

The Prophets were spirit-filled. (Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy)
 
Only people saved under Paul's gospel can be part of the body of Christ. That's people saved after Paul up until present day. The Church in Acts 2 is the part of Israels prophecy. The body of Christ doesn't start till Act's 9. All people before the dispensation of Grace and after the rapture will be part of Israel's kingdom on Earth. Our destiny is Heaven, not Earth. We won't rule and reign with Christ on Earth. We be in Heaven.
 
RomansToPhilemon said:
Only people saved under Paul's gospel can be part of the body of Christ. That's people saved after Paul up until present day. The Church in Acts 2 is the part of Israels prophecy. The body of Christ doesn't start till Act's 9. All people before the dispensation of Grace and after the rapture will be part of Israel's kingdom on Earth. Our destiny is Heaven, not Earth. We won't rule and reign with Christ on Earth. We be in Heaven.
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Paul's gospel is no different that Jesus' gospel, for all that Paul taught was God-breathed. The church and the body of Christ are just different names for the same entity. where do you people come from? You're just being foot-soldiers for Satan, distorting God's word. You have no idea what you are talking about. This is just more heresy.
 
Ekklesia simply means called out ones. Someone is calling and other is responding to that calling. Christ did called out his disciples and called them Apostles, that’s the beginning of calling out. He called Peter, James John etc. and the twelve were founded on it. The church then is founded during the early earthly ministry of Christ.

The Acts account is only the empowering of the church that was already existed for it was “added unto them” about 3000 souls so we got 120 + 3,000 more. Certainly it was not founded on the day of Pentecost, if that case, it will be no longer be our Lord Jesus who founded it which will then be attributed to the Holy Ghost.

Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 “…upon this rock I will build my church”. What we are certain is that, the NT church is the Lord’s Jesus church, it’s not somebody’s church. No, it’s not Peter, Paul or James. It is Christ church. It is the Church of Everyday Saints.

1Cor. 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
 
Ahwatukee said:


Paul's gospel is no different that Jesus' gospel, for all that Paul taught was God-breathed. The church and the body of Christ are just different names for the same entity. where do you people come from? You're just being foot-soldiers for Satan, distorting God's word. You have no idea what you are talking about. This is just more heresy.
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Here is the scriptures says

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] and truth.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]So Mark says of the beginning the Gospel of Jesus Christ, did not really start at Paul. It started by Christ.
So with Grace and truth,,,

God bless[/FONT]
 
RomansToPhilemon said:
Only people saved under Paul's gospel can be part of the body of Christ. That's people saved after Paul up until present day. The Church in Acts 2 is the part of Israels prophecy. The body of Christ doesn't start till Act's 9. All people before the dispensation of Grace and after the rapture will be part of Israel's kingdom on Earth. Our destiny is Heaven, not Earth. We won't rule and reign with Christ on Earth. We be in Heaven.
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Hey brother, I agree with you on many things, but I have a discrepancy with what you're saying here. Read through my post #49. Thanks.
 
fredoheaven said:
Here is the scriptures says

Mark 1:1 Thebeginningofthe gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) fullof grace and truth.

So Mark says of the beginning the Gospel of Jesus Christ, did not really start at Paul. It started by Christ.
So with Grace and truth,,,

God bless
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What is the gospel that Paul taught?

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Can you show me in Scripture where that was the same message Jesus and His disciples were going around preaching? In fact, the disciples had no clue about Christ's death until after the fact. The message was not exactly the same. In our ears, we better get the gospel message correct. Eternal life is at stake.
 
Depleted said:
But then doesn't that mean that Adam and Eve, Abel, Noah, Abraham, and all "called-out ones" from the OT weren't part of God's building project?
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The first recorded person that was given the grace of God according to His mercy was Abel. There is no mention of Adam and Eve receiving that grace, being born again.It does not mean they did not just that it is not written.
 
notuptome said:
Boy how do we see the difference between Israel who sought a kingdom of God on the earth and the church which Christ is building?

Israel is still waiting the coming kingdom and the church is still being added to daily by Christ.


For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Flesh Israel sought a kingdom of God on earth but true Israel sojourned (a temporary stay) in the land of promise waiting for the city whose builder and maker is God.
 
fredoheaven said:
Here is the scriptures says

Mark 1:1 Thebeginningofthe gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) fullof grace and truth.

So Mark says of the beginning the Gospel of Jesus Christ, did not really start at Paul. It started by Christ.
So with Grace and truth,,,

God bless
Click to expand...

The gospel was preached throughout the old testament in various ways and manners. I think that beginning was more of beginning of the promises that Christ would come as the Son of man.Like found in Isiah 53. In that way it appears to be what Hebrews is saying and not that the Spirit of Christ was not actively bringing the gospel thorough the Son of God, but not as the Son of man, as the Son of man pertaining to the flesh.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Heb 1:1

Those last days began when the veil was rent. The veil was used to preach the gospel until Christ came in the flesh.


1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


I would think Mark 1 and Hebrew compliment each other in that way.

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
 
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