Why is it assumed by many here that Grace Folk live in blatant, unrepentant sin?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
GandalfTheWhite said:
The Bible is clear that everything in the Bible is about Jesus. It was about Him before Moses received the written law.

If we look at everything before Moses received the law we can see a clear picture of Jesus. The law was never the teacher it was a guide to relationship with God. A description of His character. We know God does not change so His character will not change. It is up to us to determine if God's Word is still valid (or not).
Click to expand...

I see, Your calling paul a liar.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.


To say the law is used for anything else is to call paul a liar.


The purpose of the law was to keep us humble until faith came,, Because it shows us our sin. thats is the ONLY reason the law was given.
Amen, the law is only a guideline but Jesus will determine our destination, even if you were born in the OT. You can clearly see that Abraham, Noah, David, Moses etc had a relationship with Him. They knew Him and understood He is the Saviour. This is not New Testament knowledge/revelation.
Click to expand...


Um, God does determine, It has and will always be by faith in God.. Not by law. Not by religion Not by works..

No sir, this is impossible :)
Click to expand...

Have you read pauls letters? The OT? The Gospels?

It not only is possible.. It is ongoing, religion has done it from the begining of time.
 
beta said:
CHILDREN ! God is teaching us to WALK....NOT hop through life on one leg or the other.
It takes 2 legs to walk - Love and Law - plus a combination of movements....so ALL scripture is profitable...!
let us not get 'bogged down and stopped from walking by focusing on 'single points only, let's give way to each other so we can move foreward toward holiness and perfection. That is God's Will !
Click to expand...
Love and Grace are my two legs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PennEd
beta said:
The law as 'contained in works and ordinances was indeed a 'schoolmaster to bring us to Christ and now no longer apply. What makes you include the moral/spiritual/eternal commandments with the secular/temporal ones ? Why are you not putting difference between holy and unholy Lev 10v10 ?
Click to expand...

The law Paul spoke of in Gal 3. What law was that? They were the moral spiritual and eternal commands.

You want to get to God your way, You must in the words of Moses and paul "confirm and obey EVERY word written in this law.. If you fall in one area, you are cursed..

he is not talking about some secular law. He was talking about the holy law.

it does still stand today. You better be perfect. Or you need grace, there is no inbetween, It is just as relevant today as it was the day Moses gave it to the children of Israel with the demand, Obey every jott or tittle or else..
 
eternally-gratefull said:
We will know one day, When we come face to face with Jesus,, how sinful we are will become very clear.. Lets pray we are at the bema judgment, not the great white throne.
Click to expand...

Rest easy, Brother.

Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5.24 :cool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: eternally-gratefull
Adstar said:
Works salvation believers always do their best to portray Grace believers as being corrupt sinners who use the grace of God as a license to sin.. It is their sock standard straw-man argument designed to attack the person with the hope of undermining the standing of the one who holds the belief in Gods Grace, in the hope of undermining the doctrine of Grace by associating it with immoral sinners...

It's a classic debating tactic of trying to undermine the opponents argument by attacking the moral standing of the one holding that belief.. So goes like this.. People who believe in position G are bad immoral people,, therefore the position G is bad and immoral because it is held by bad and immoral people...
Click to expand...
and this is why I do not post a lot of verses, though others do a great job of doing so. it seems to me that some simply do not care about grace salvationism , they only care about pumping themselves up, feeding their self-righteousness , pushing their agendas. they usually ignore or twist any verses that do not back up their works mindset.

so, that is why I try to get the heart of what they are saying, which is " I do not sin " in some form. it takes this mindset to allow them to talk down to others, make stupid lists, say if you do not keep the list, then you are not saved.

a grace-filled humble believer does not think this way, we think in terms of forgiveness, and mercy. but since they think they do no wrong, or not much anyway, they have no use for mercy, or forgiveness.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
I see, Your calling paul a liar.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.


To say the law is used for anything else is to call paul a liar.


The purpose of the law was to keep us humble until faith came, Because it shows us our sin. thats is the ONLY reason the law was given.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with you and understand the point you are making.
 
JGIG said:
Why not just go to the Scriptures to see what God has to say about it?

God is clear: Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness; Law is the power of sin.

'Working hard' to obey is not part of the New Covenanent; obedience is a fruit, not the root of walking in the Spirit.

-JGIG
Click to expand...
No, we need to obey the Lord, and that takes effort.
 
JGIG said:
Why not just go to the Scriptures to see what God has to say about it?

God is clear: Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness; Law is the power of sin.

'Working hard' to obey is not part of the New Covenanent; obedience is a fruit, not the root of walking in the Spirit.

-JGIG
Click to expand...
Obedience is part of the package. If you can obey the Lord’s commandments without any effort, good for you, but you do need to obey the commandments:

[1] Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God, and every one who loves the parent loves the child.
[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3 RSV

I won't be around to debate this any further for a while since I am traveling up to Oregon in a few minutes.
 
If a person teaches grace only, he is in error.
If the same person teaches law only, he is in error.

How are both true........?

If any live in grace they must be conscious of the law. If they are not conscious of the law, there is no need of grace for the power of the law is in the knowledge thereof to a great extent.

Grace only folks ae practicing law without understanding how our Lord, Jesus, teaches us how to obey.

Law only folks are "under the law," a bad place to be.

Our Master, and the Only Authority on teaching the Gospel covers how to understand and apply the law, lawfully, though 95% or more of those who clain to know HIm do not hear this.

If we observe the three points of the law Jesus stresses tot he hypocrites that they are overlooking, we live truly in grace for we apply these same three points to ourselves.

Faith, mercy and justice. This will make no sense at all to any who are legalists tellling others if they obey they are not in grace, yet not even approaching the understanding taught by our Lord and Savior.

To say any child of obedience is under the law by any grace only lawyers is simply blasphemy. Please do not teach others to ignore the law.

It is all quite simple when one learns from God, that is, from our Master and Salvaion.......Jesus Christ.

Stop calling the Lord mistaken on these teachings directly from Him and hear Him.. God bless all who are truly in Jesus Christ for those who really do believe Him will obey His teachings............
 
resurrection33 said:
Obedience is part of the package. If you can obey the Lord’s commandments without any effort, good for you, but you do need to obey the commandments:

[1] Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God, and every one who loves the parent loves the child.
[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3 RSV

I won't be around to debate this any further for a while since I am traveling up to Oregon in a few minutes.
Click to expand...

have a safe and enjoyable trip
 
JGIG said:
Why not just go to the Scriptures to see what God has to say about it?

God is clear: Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness; Law is the power of sin.

'Working hard' to obey is not part of the New Covenanent; obedience is a fruit, not the root of walking in the Spirit.

-JGIG
Click to expand...
Your original question is why people think people "live in blatan, unrepentant sin?" when they subscribe to the doctrine of grace. Well, if you refuse to accept that it takes some effort to please the Lord, some people might wonder what you are up to. I think we all understand the Lord forgives. It's just that some of us believe we need to learn from our mistakes.
 
resurrection33 said:
Your original question is why people think people "live in blatan, unrepentant sin?" when they subscribe to the doctrine of grace. Well, if you refuse to accept that it takes some effort to please the Lord, some people might wonder what you are up to. I think we all understand the Lord forgives. It's just that some of us believe we need to learn from our mistakes.
Click to expand...

"The sin underneath all our sins is the lie of the serpent that we cannot trust the love and grace of Christ and that we must take matters into our own hands.”


- Martin Luther
 
eternally-gratefull said:
We will know one day, When we come face to face with Jesus,, how sinful we are will become very clear.. Lets pray we are at the bema judgment, not the great white throne.
Click to expand...

I KNOW, as I know You KNOW..........we are going to be at the bema seat. Absolutely, positively SURE of it. I know my Lord and Savior.
 
Gr8grace said:
I KNOW, as I know You KNOW..........we are going to be at the bema seat. Absolutely, positively SURE of it. I know my Lord and Savior

.
Click to expand...

Amen!....

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
 
Grace777x70 said:
Amen!....

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Click to expand...

I know it gets tough around here. But at the root of it for me, I just hate to see other brothers and sisters not living in this truth. It is freedom that truly sets one free. It turns into a privilege to serve and glorify The Lord Jesus Christ rather than our "job" or obligation.
 
JaumeJ said:
To say any child of obedience is under the law by any grace only lawyers is simply blasphemy. Please do not teach others to ignore the law.

It is all quite simple when one learns from God, that is, from our Master and Salvaion.......Jesus Christ.

Stop calling the Lord mistaken on these teachings directly from Him and hear Him.. God bless all who are truly in Jesus Christ for those who really do believe Him will obey His teachings............
Click to expand...

The problem is that many people argue manmade doctrines and will not be able to change. I was also a "grace only" Christian for a long time in my life but over the last 2-3 years was guided in love by somebody understanding the law way better than me. You will always have people fighting what they don't understand but the Bible is clear that Jesus is the Word and non-changing. He loves us but there is also another side to the coin if we are not obedient to His word and we don't have faith in Him. We need to understand the balance and get to know our Saviour intimately... and if you are then guided to hate the law I can tell you the spirit guiding you is not God's Holy Spirit because He will never hate His Word.

God's Word is perfect and non-changing. Our duty is to understand Him and test our understanding to the non-changing Word of God that will never be able to contradict itself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back