Why such hatred for the seventh day?

[phil112]

Phil,

Jaume isn't minimizing Paul's teachings or saying that Paul's words aren't Christ's. He's saying that Paul's words have a context to them that is important to consider, especially when there is the appearance of a contradiction between he and Jesus.

Don't be so melodramatic, brother.

Melodramatic? I take umbrage when someone distorts the word. There is no "context". The words mean exactly what they say. To say otherwise is to say the spirit of God didn't do a good job of working thru holy apostles and prophets to get it written down. That is a ludicrous thought.

 

[Karraster]

Hope flows thru suffering...in the water and blood.

 

[Shubee]

Love is only the motive behind what you do. The do must be defined by God and guided by God.

The do has been defined by God yet you ignore it for your ceaseless obsession, which has been dismissed by the Apostle Paul as a mere shadow of what is to come. Why not focus on the gospel of the final scenario instead? It has been fully explained in The Three Angels' Messages Versus The Three Demons' Messages.

 

[Timeline]

AMEN! What many Christians do not understand, is Crucifixion normally took three agonizing days to die on the cross. And Christ was dead in a few hours. Even the Roman Soldiers were amazed that He was already dead, when they came to break the legs to speed up the dieing process.

True, but even more Jesus didn't get onto the cross until it was time.

 

[VCO]

True, but even more Jesus didn't get onto the cross until it was time.

John 2:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] “What has this concern of yours to do with Me, woman?” Jesus asked. “My hour has not yet come.”

John 16:31-32 (NKJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Jesus answered them, "Do you now believe?
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Indeed the hour is coming, yes, has now come, that you will be scattered, each to his own, and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me.

 

[2Thewaters]

The do has been defined by God yet you ignore it for your ceaseless obsession, which has been dismissed by the Apostle Paul as a mere shadow of what is to come. Why not focus on the gospel of the final scenario instead? It has been fully explained in The Three Angels' Messages Versus The Three Demons' Messages.

I think you are ceaselessly obseessed with sexuality,
circumcision is done with
why do you keep bringing up circumcision

Gods law of the universe has nothing to do with circumcision

you are continuously confused.

 

[2Thewaters]

You really expect me to believe that murderers and stealers and liars now can go to heaven?
you think people that folow the pope and reject what God ssays are obedient children going to heaven?
your credibility is pretty low

try using the Bible and quotes instead of self invented doctrines

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." -Revelation 12:17.


"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." -Revelation 14:12.


"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." -Revelation 22:14.

We should listen to what the spirit says to the churches


Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying,
Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins,(commandment breaking)
and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins (commandment breaking) have reached unto heaven,
and God hath remembered her iniquities. (lawlessness)

lok up the words

thats what they mean

Babylon teaches LAWLESSNESS

what do you teach?

 

[StoneThrower]

You really expect me to believe that murderers and stealers and liars now can go to heaven?

Yes, the Bible tells us that, Jesus told the Pharisee’s that repentant sinners and tax collectors would go to heaven and not them.

It also says and such were some of you.
1st Cor. 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [f]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

That’s why a lot of folks won’t be going to heaven because of pride; God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. People seem to dismiss their own sin, or rank sin as if some is worse than others and that’s not true. Sin is sin.

you think people that follow the pope and reject what God says are obedient children going to heaven?

If they truly follow the RCC's teaching fully, the will be like anyone else in a false world religion and will be damned for eternity.

 

[KohenMatt]

It is evident there are many instances where certain theologies and sects will contradict the teachings of Yeshua in favor of teachings from Paul.

It is not that Paul and Yeshua have different teachings, it is that much of what Paul wrote is based on geographical, temporal and circumstantial influences on a given subject.

Many times, reading Paul, one must refer to all of his writings in order to determine exactly what has been taught to a particular congregation.

When one is confused on a topic, and there is confusion from Paul's writings, it is best to go to the words of the Master, providing there are words on the same subject.

There almost always are teachings from the Master on what Paul writes which clarify and satisfy one's needs.

Melodramatic? I take umbrage when someone distorts the word. There is no "context". The words mean exactly what they say. To say otherwise is to say the spirit of God didn't do a good job of working thru holy apostles and prophets to get it written down. That is a ludicrous thought.

Right. Jaume's words say that that Jesus and Paul teach the same thing. What wording in his remarks state exactly that "the spirit of God didn't do a good job of working thru holy apostles and prophets to get it written down."

 

[Shubee]

I think you are ceaselessly obseessed with sexuality,
circumcision is done with
why do you keep bringing up circumcision
Gods law of the universe has nothing to do with circumcision
you are continuously confused.

So deceit is your entire argument? And you expect God to reward you for that?

 

[VCO]

It is evident there are many instances where certain theologies and sects will contradict the teachings of Yeshua in favor of teachings from Paul.

It is not that Paul and Yeshua have different teachings, it is that much of what Paul wrote is based on geographical, temporal and circumstantial influences on a given subject.

Many times, reading Paul, one must refer to all of his writings in order to determine exactly what has been taught to a particular congregation.

When one is confused on a topic, and there is confusion from Paul's writings, it is best to go to the words of the Master, providing there are words on the same subject.

There almost always are teachings from the Master on what Paul writes which clarify and satisfy one's needs.

All of Paul's messages were meant for all of us to learn from. Are you trying to say that some of what Paul wrote is not relevant to today? If so, you certainly would be wrong about that. I have heard that erroneous excuse used to try to justify disobeying what Paul, as God led him to speak, has commanded us to do.

By the way, I have never found Paul's confusing, nor contradictive of anything taught by Christ Himself.

Are you saying you do?

 

[RedTent]

All of Paul's messages were meant for all of us to learn from. Are you trying to say that some of what Paul wrote is not relevant to today? If so, you certainly would be wrong about that. I have heard that erroneous excuse used to try to justify disobeying what Paul, as God led him to speak, has commanded us to do.

By the way, I have never found Paul's confusing, nor contradictive of anything taught by Christ Himself.

Are you saying you do?

Great!! Paul did not contradict Christ, as I have posted so often. Christ did not contradict the Father, Christ said so. So now we can all relax and follow Christ in honoring the Sabbath just as He and the Father created the world to do.

Now, how are we going to get the rest of the world to agree to following Christ? I am afraid it is going to take the return of Christ to clear the world of those who will not follow Hm, who want to change the days like it speaks of in Daniel, with the remnant who want to follow Christ left.

 

[VCO]

Yes, the Bible tells us that, Jesus told the Pharisee’s that repentant sinners and tax collectors would go to heaven and not them.

It also says and such were some of you.
1st Cor. 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [f]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

That’s why a lot of folks won’t be going to heaven because of pride; God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. People seem to dismiss their own sin, or rank sin as if some is worse than others and that’s not true. Sin is sin.




If they truly follow the RCC's teaching fully, the will be like anyone else in a false world religion and will be damned for eternity.

And the biggest reason those Pharisees were not saved, is they had reduced the Laws, Statutes, and Standards of GOD to a level that they COULD KEEP, and thus they missed the mark entirely, while all the time they were thinking they were Holy. That is why the modern theology of "Salvation is faith PLUS KEEPING HIS COMMANDS", is such a dangerous theology. It mirrors the beliefs of the Pharisees. Genuine Salvation is when we realized that the Laws, Statutes, and Standards of GOD were designed to be SO HIGH, that we can NEVER fully live up to them, and stumbling at one point makes us guilty of breaking the WHOLE LAW. The end result is our awareness that we are utterly sinful and cannot save ourselves, driving us to our knees crying out for HIM TO SAVE US. THEREFORE genuine Salvation, is by GRACE alone through Faith, and even that Faith was given to us. Genuine Salvation will then be made evident by the fruit it produces, Love for HIM manifested in our willing submission and obedience to His Lordship. No, obedience is not the means to Salvation, because Salvation is UNEARNED and UNDESERVED, that is what Grace means; but it changes us from the inside out, producing LOVE, SUBMISSION, and OBEDIENCE.

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

what a ridiculous attempt at argumentation...

sexual immorality is condemned in the new testament...this would obviously fall under that category...duh...

Your dismissal of scripture and truth is quite telling, but your rudeness and sarcasm is unnecessary.

I do keep the Sabbath. No one in my house works, not even the dogs. The evening of, we drink wine and break bread. In the morning, we get up and sit back down. We make food the day before, or buy easy to assemble things like sandwiches or cheese and crackers. We stroll among the garden, and sometimes pick a tomato to eat, but we do not pick weeds. If we don't have bread or milk or anything, we do without it until dark. I may walk next door to my dad's or neighbors, and I might walk my dogs to the end of the road for a run. We play video games and fellowship. We watch movies and talk about the word and play cribbage and we rest. Mostly, we rest.

The dishes don't get done, the dogs don't get washed, the laundry doesn't get scrubbed. No one works. In my home, we all feel blessed by the Sabbath. It's a true blessing to get up and have NO WORK the whole day.

I don't understand why you think some of the law is valid but not others. Why do you say you believe the Bible when you've obviously thrown away half of it. What a silly way to view the world.

You will be judged for attacking the obedient, and encouraging others to violate Yahweh's Torah. Not by me, or by anyone here, but by the one who's shoes I'm not fit to tie. When that day comes, this conversation will be mentioned, and I may have to witness against you. I will tell this truth; "They spoke against the most high. They were scornful toward the Sabbath keepers, and dismissed the word as untrue."

Humble yourself in the site of the Lord, and he will lift you up. A stiff-neck and a proud heart are not of Yahweh, but of Satan.

 

[sparkman]

Thank you. Frankly, most of us Sabbath keepers feel like we are explaining or justifying why we keep the Sabbath. I don't intend to condemn a Sunday keeper although I feel condemned by such.

Don't you believe that Sunday observers are unsaved and still in their sins? If they are still in their sins, aren't they condemned? That's what Armstrongism teaches. Or, are you phrasing your words in a deceptive way so you don't betray your true beliefs?

 

[JaumeJ]

I am saying Paul taught nothing that contradicted the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Had he done so, he would be in error. Paul teaches that he teaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ, thus when or if anything he teaches seems to contradict the teaching of our Lord, Jesus Christ, the answer is simple. It is being misunderstood and requires more study.

All of Paul's messages were meant for all of us to learn from. Are you trying to say that some of what Paul wrote is not relevant to today? If so, you certainly would be wrong about that. I have heard that erroneous excuse used to try to justify disobeying what Paul, as God led him to speak, has commanded us to do.

By the way, I have never found Paul's confusing, nor contradictive of anything taught by Christ Himself.

Are you saying you do?

 

[just-me]

The Sabbath or seventh is rest. The reason that church people (who have been taught incorrectly) hate the Sabbath as relevant for today, is because it is a representation of what a Christian should really be. It has everything to do with ceasing from our own works. It is ironic (to the maximum) that those same people adamantly speak against the law and the Sabbath day as self works placing us under the condemnation of the law when they reject ceasing from our own works. Go figure. Talk about turning things upside down.

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding ? (Isaiah 29:16)

 

[sparkman]

The Ten Commandments are a summary of the Old Covenant
Exodus 34:28 “So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the word of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Exodus 31:18 “And he gave to Moses when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 “And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone”.
Deut 9:9 “When I went up the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the Lord made with you.”
Deut 9:11 “And at the end of forty days and forty nights the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.”
The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and Israel, not God and Christians
Ex 31:12-17 And the Lord said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.”
The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for ANYONE
Heb 8:13-9:4 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness. For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table, and the bread of the Presence. It is called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Gal 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterwards, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a guardian
2 Cor 3:4-18 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even much more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
The Sabbath, as part of the Old Covenant, is not in affect for ANYONE
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Rom 14:5-6 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Col 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ
Jesus is our Sabbath or spiritual rest, and we enter into that spiritual rest by placing our faith in Him
Matt 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and lean from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Heb 4:1-8 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest. “ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”. Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today”, saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted. “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had not given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from is works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Christians are under the New Covenant, which has much higher demands and different commandments
Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”
Heb 9:15 Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Jn 15:12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Jn 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
I am a former Sabbathkeeper due to my association as a new believer with Worldwide Church of God (now called Grace Communion International). Worldwide Church of God came to realize in 1995 that Christians are under the New Covenant, and not the Old Covenant, and the Sabbath does not apply to Christians under the New Covenant. It was a sign of the Old Covenant (like baptism and the Lord’s Supper are signs of the New Covenant), and is not a moral absolute like Sabbathkeepers claim. Sabbathkeeping doctrine invariably takes the focus off the true gospel, which is about Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith in Him (Eph 2:8-9). As a Sabbathkeeper, I rarely heard messages about God’s grace and love; the message of such organizations invariably focuses on the Sabbath. Jesus Christ was also placed on the backburner and was not the focus of their teaching. If you would like good sources of information in regards to the Sabbath check out Grace Communion International’s website at https://www.gci.org/law I now attend an Evangelical Free church that focuses on Jesus Christ and salvation through Him, which is the true gospel.

 

[Tintin]

...because of people like you, dear Sparkman. Besides, Jesus is our place of rest, our Sabbath. I love Jesus. He's all we need.

 

[kaylagrl]

Whats with all the Sabbath threads lately? The forum is full of them.