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The idea of double predestination itself assumes that people are actively forced by God to make choices though, like little puppets. That's why I don't like to use the term. We both agree that God causes us to turn to him actively, but he doesn't have to actively cause someone to reject him. Slight difference in that and double predestination, but that slight difference makes all the difference 
So, this is sort of like OSAS? It's one of those things non-Calvinists charge us with under a different precept of thought, but I accept it because, in the long run, they're not wrong. They just skip part of the definition of terms?
They tend to try and condemn us with that one, but it's not wrong. Once saved really is always saved, it's just a question of if we were saved in the first place. And destined is assumed as we are all destined to hell, but God, in his justice and mercy, predestined some out of where we set ourselves by our actions.(Granted, I hate the word destined, because it implies an unknown force plays willy-nilly on us.)
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Humm so you want me to send you book with Calvins quotes in them? Not sure I can do that. If you dont trust anything on the internet we're kinda out of luck huh?
Not sure I can do that. If you dont trust anything on the internet we're kinda out of luck huh?
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And that's a place I disagree with. I don't see God is inactive anywhere. Strangely, I get my idea of double-predestination from Romans 8:28. (The Bible verse in my signature.) If all works for the good of those who love the Lord and are called to his purposes, than it infers that all works for the bad of the others.
Pharaoh was an other. God was not inactive on Pharaoh. Pharaoh hardened, but not as much as God actively hardened him too.
I believe in the complete sovereignty of God to the point that the last Super Bowl was part of God's overall plan to have himself a people who will love him and worship him forever. Whereas, we may never know how that worked out for God's good, God fit those pieces in too. Somehow, some way whoever won that game, lost that game, went to that game, worked at that game or watched that game did so for God's divine purpose. (And I can't even remember who played in that game. lol) For some it was part of God's good. For others it was part of God's wrath.
And all of it could have been as minor as creating a fish during creation that would have descendants for eons so one particular fish could just happen to land under a boat during a storm to swallow a reluctant prophet and send him where he did not want to go. And another fish just happen to be caught by someone starving to death. And other fish would swim up a river when Washington and his troops were starving at Valley Forge, and yet it did not dawn on them to eat those fish.
All of it is connected by God. All of it is God's activity -- the good and the bad -- because the bad isn't really always evil. It is to remind us God is sovereign.
[h=1]Genesis 50:20[/h][FONT="]As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.[/FONT]
Pharaoh was an other. God was not inactive on Pharaoh. Pharaoh hardened, but not as much as God actively hardened him too.
I believe in the complete sovereignty of God to the point that the last Super Bowl was part of God's overall plan to have himself a people who will love him and worship him forever. Whereas, we may never know how that worked out for God's good, God fit those pieces in too. Somehow, some way whoever won that game, lost that game, went to that game, worked at that game or watched that game did so for God's divine purpose. (And I can't even remember who played in that game. lol) For some it was part of God's good. For others it was part of God's wrath.
And all of it could have been as minor as creating a fish during creation that would have descendants for eons so one particular fish could just happen to land under a boat during a storm to swallow a reluctant prophet and send him where he did not want to go. And another fish just happen to be caught by someone starving to death. And other fish would swim up a river when Washington and his troops were starving at Valley Forge, and yet it did not dawn on them to eat those fish.
All of it is connected by God. All of it is God's activity -- the good and the bad -- because the bad isn't really always evil. It is to remind us God is sovereign.
[h=1]Genesis 50:20[/h][FONT="]As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.[/FONT]
There are many outright lies concerning Calvin. In fact, on one forum, laden with angry arminians who attack the brothers, there was a thread posted to of course slander Calvin. Here is one of the quotes used against Calvin, and ultimately against Reformed Brothers:
I searched for this Jacques Gruet because he was represented as some guy who got killed for simply leaving a note on Calvin's pulpit. He was presented as a theologian who had "differing views." This is the same excuse used to protect false doctrine, lies and heresy today, they only have "differing views." Beware of those who hold to this excuses, they will compromise the Gospel at every turn, and hold to enough truth to appear "OK" but as they say "the devil is in the details" so it is not so much what they say, watch what heresies they approve and give a bye to.
Well, I researched Jacques Gruet. He was a wanted criminal, had committed many serious crimes, and was a blasphemer, a very serious crime at that point in history.
And he wasn't a theologian.
He was an atheist that hated God and he had threatened Calvin's life at some point.
After presenting documentation that these were lies against Calvin, and after presenting documented truth about Gruet, let's just say there was no longer any way for me to "log on" to that site. Other Reformed brothers were also attacked and banned at the same time.
People need to slay their sacred cows and learn to love the truth, not the propaganda, traditions and lies that bias them toward the true Gospel and Reformed Theology. Many hold to a truncated Gospel, and we know there is only one Gospel, there is not another. God help us to stand on the truth and fight against error, no matter the cost.
I searched for this Jacques Gruet because he was represented as some guy who got killed for simply leaving a note on Calvin's pulpit. He was presented as a theologian who had "differing views." This is the same excuse used to protect false doctrine, lies and heresy today, they only have "differing views." Beware of those who hold to this excuses, they will compromise the Gospel at every turn, and hold to enough truth to appear "OK" but as they say "the devil is in the details" so it is not so much what they say, watch what heresies they approve and give a bye to.
Well, I researched Jacques Gruet. He was a wanted criminal, had committed many serious crimes, and was a blasphemer, a very serious crime at that point in history.
And he wasn't a theologian.
He was an atheist that hated God and he had threatened Calvin's life at some point.
After presenting documentation that these were lies against Calvin, and after presenting documented truth about Gruet, let's just say there was no longer any way for me to "log on" to that site. Other Reformed brothers were also attacked and banned at the same time.
People need to slay their sacred cows and learn to love the truth, not the propaganda, traditions and lies that bias them toward the true Gospel and Reformed Theology. Many hold to a truncated Gospel, and we know there is only one Gospel, there is not another. God help us to stand on the truth and fight against error, no matter the cost.
You can get the Institutes of the Christian Religion here for free in pub format, they also have many other Reformed and Calvinist e-books for free.
A
Perhap,just maybe I was asking what other people believe and not just you?
I got what you said,believe it or not.
However, your beliefs aren't always shared by all who claim the names reformed.
In addition, Kayla was talking about Calvin and his stance on Jews.
Therefore it is logical to ask if it's a common position or a position that can vary.
As some respectfully answered and showed how it is related to eschatological.
Re-read my question and if you want to know my motives,
Look up " the Socratic Method"
6 Preaching Methods Jesus Used That You Should Too - LifeWay Pastors
I got what you said,believe it or not.
However, your beliefs aren't always shared by all who claim the names reformed.
In addition, Kayla was talking about Calvin and his stance on Jews.
Therefore it is logical to ask if it's a common position or a position that can vary.
As some respectfully answered and showed how it is related to eschatological.
Re-read my question and if you want to know my motives,
Look up " the Socratic Method"
6 Preaching Methods Jesus Used That You Should Too - LifeWay Pastors
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To my question:
In response to the comment about we being no different than the RCC or Islam.
In response to Moses killed in defense
In response to "What's Gods?"
(Just took it to the logical conclusion of where you were taking it.)
And that was in response to me answering "What's Gods?"
You really are circling here.
-- You want us to defend Calvin, but don't feel responsible to defend Wesley, (who is, indeed, the beginning of the Pentecostal roots.)
-- You know we're not defending Calvin, but you take off on things Calvin said, (and exact quotes, so unless you have a photographic memory, you do know the sources), and then repeat you don't want to take this discussion off course. You're the one who did that and then kept doing that.
-- You want us to stick by the Jews by outing Calvin, but when we won't, you come back to "What's Gods?" And then when I tell "What's God's?" suddenly there is no reason to defend your belief.
Quite a few circles going on here, but not from Calvinists.
I really have been listening. And now I'm discourage because the only two people on this thread who say they want to learn what Calvinist believe haven't been listening to what Calvinists believe.
We do not agree on most issues anymore than anyone else, but there is a core to Reformed Theology, and that was ignored. Or was it? Do you understand what Calvinism is anymore after 60 pages of this than you did when you first wrote that OP? If so, by now you can tell us what Calvinist do believe.
And if you an Ariel cannot do that, then this really was 60 pages of wasted time!
In response to the comment about we being no different than the RCC or Islam.
In response to Moses killed in defense
In response to "What's Gods?"
(Just took it to the logical conclusion of where you were taking it.)
And that was in response to me answering "What's Gods?"
You really are circling here.
-- You want us to defend Calvin, but don't feel responsible to defend Wesley, (who is, indeed, the beginning of the Pentecostal roots.)
-- You know we're not defending Calvin, but you take off on things Calvin said, (and exact quotes, so unless you have a photographic memory, you do know the sources), and then repeat you don't want to take this discussion off course. You're the one who did that and then kept doing that.
-- You want us to stick by the Jews by outing Calvin, but when we won't, you come back to "What's Gods?" And then when I tell "What's God's?" suddenly there is no reason to defend your belief.
Quite a few circles going on here, but not from Calvinists.
I really have been listening. And now I'm discourage because the only two people on this thread who say they want to learn what Calvinist believe haven't been listening to what Calvinists believe.
We do not agree on most issues anymore than anyone else, but there is a core to Reformed Theology, and that was ignored. Or was it? Do you understand what Calvinism is anymore after 60 pages of this than you did when you first wrote that OP? If so, by now you can tell us what Calvinist do believe.
And if you an Ariel cannot do that, then this really was 60 pages of wasted time!