GOD'S DISCIPLINE ISN'T PUNISHEMENT FOR PAST SINS...

[JGIG]

7seas . . . please learn how to use the quote tags properly. Your post (to the outside reader, not to me) is confusing and unclear about who is saying what. It's time consuming to reply to a mish-mash of who said what and to correct the quote tags after the fact.

Thanks in advance,
-JGIG

what a childish response to my post

you know the blue type is my response to what you falsely posted

this makes you look even less credible than you already were

I don't know how people can be so dishonest as what you just revealed yourself to be

you are NOT open to an actual discussion but instead you will snipe from behind passive aggressiveness

very typical type of response when an actual bluff is called

you really disappointed me. I did think you had just misunderstood but that may not be the case

Just a simple request, 7seas, not a personal attack.

And I did respond. You'll see it.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

I'm just going to copy/paste from another site which I am sure no one here will object to since that is the method preferred by the person who created the op

I don't want to give the impression that the only information I have on the man comes from dissenters. His website is a great resource for hearing what he believes, in his own words and own style of reflecting on what we 'all have been taught', although after listening to him use this expression before he gives you his revelation, gets old.

I have learned, from Farley himself, that in fact we all have NOT been taught when he thinks we all have been taught

Yet you didn't quote from Dr. Andrew Farley's About Page (https://andrewfarley.org/about/), you quoted from Dr. Paul M. Elliott's page, and Elliott's page classifies Farley's teaching as heresy.

perhaps his former teaching at a Catholic University is what he is referring to, but I do not have the impression from other members who disagree with his teaching that they are Catholic and have never been taught right because they have never heard Farley straighten everyone out

Andrew Farley was formerly a professor of linguistics at the Roman Catholic University of Notre Dame. He is the "lead pastor" of Ecclesia, a purportedly Evangelical church in Lubbock, Texas that is also known as the "Church Without Religion".
Farley also hosts a call-in program called "Andrew Farley Live" that airs six days a week on Sirius XM Radio. He is also a tenured professor at Texas Tech University, where he teaches linguistics and a course called "The Early Church and Contemporary Christianity in Conflict."Farley is the author of the books The Naked Gospel: The Truth You May Never Hear in Church; God Without Religion: Can It Really Be This Simple? and several others. Zondervan's media buildup for Farley's Naked Gospel said this:Jesus plus nothing. 100% natural. No additives. It's the truth you may never hear in church.

The Naked Gospel is a chapter-by-chapter assault on the churchy jargon and double talk of our day. It puts forth a message that is simple but life-changing. With a fresh take on Scripture and unapologetic style, The Naked Gospel will challenge you to re-examine everything you thought you already knew.

​

SOURCE[/FONT][/COLOR]

This is from AndrewFarley.org:

My Biography

I grew up in Warrenton, Virginia on a horse farm called Summerfield Farm. My father Guy Farley was an attorney and later worked in the hotel business. My mother Leslie Farley was a schoolteacher and later a Christian counselor. She still lives in Virginia where my brother Will and my sister Amanda also reside.

I attended high school at Emmanuel Christian School in Manassas, VA. I earned my bachelor’s degree at Furman University, my master’s degree at University of Georgia, and my doctorate at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

Over the last two decades, I have served as a professor of linguistics at University of Notre Dame and at Texas Tech University. I also serve as lead pastor of Church Without Religion here in west Texas.

My Family

I have been married to my wife, Katharine, for sixteen years. We have one son, Gavin, and we live in west Texas. In our free time, we all enjoy snow sports, watersports, and travel together.
​

Andrew Farley was never a Catholic, but was brought up in Evangelicism.

But you would know that, if you had really listened to his stuff.

Here's Andrew Farley's website, again: Andrew Farley Ministries



-JGIG

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I have learned, from Farley himself, that in fact we all have NOT been taught when he thinks we all have been taught.

perhaps his former teaching at a Catholic University is what he is referring to, but I do not have the impression from other members who disagree with his teaching that they are Catholic and have never been taught right because they have never heard Farley straighten everyone out

There do seem to be a number of ex-catholics who follow Farley-type doctrine. And from my experience they like to project their experiences onto others who didn't have those experiences.

 

[BenFTW]

There do seem to be a number of ex-catholics who follow Farley-type doctrine. And from my experience they like to project their experiences onto others who didn't have those experiences.

Oh thank the Lord! You are fine! lol

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

let me just put one more in here from his list of questions, again same source. interesting reading and sounds quite similar to what I have read from some posters in this forum

"Christians struggle with sin because of their old self within." Wrong again, says Farley. On page 104 he says, "The moment we enter into Christ at salvation, our old self is obliterated." He severely twists Paul's discussion of the conflict between the old and new natures in Romans 6 and 7.

I know I have read posts in this forum wherein the poster seems to think 'presto' no more old self. never going to have to deal with that again.

this is absolutely false

if it were true, you would never sin again.

There used to be a fellow here who over many posts revealed how the flesh is "obliterated". This is what I gathered. I really should go back through his posts and insert links to where all of this is found.

The flesh and the body are considered to be separate and distinct. In other words, mental separation is made between the flesh and the body, which allows for the belief that the body is sinless. The sinful flesh, then, simply becomes an idea that is compartmentalized in the mind and discarded (ignored, denied) because it is the old man that was crucified and no longer exists. This process of denying the existence of sinful flesh and identifying only with the incorruptible spirit and sinless body is what they call the renewing of the mind.

The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament has a good description of this mental dissociation process in which a person only identifies with what they want to be (their identity as the righteousness of GOD), and blots out any consciousness or idea contrary to it (their sin nature).

f. Gnosticism offers a radical solution to the conflict of conscience. It is true that instances are very sparse. But the basic dualistic solution involves a full separation between the two egos. The true I of the Gnostic is identical with the divine world of light, while the other I belongs to the chaotic world and is thus to be abandoned. In the final analysis, then, there is no bad conscience for the Gnostic. Naturally this opens the door not merely to asceticism but also to libertinism.​

Paul talks about the two 'I's (egos) mentioned above in Romans 7-8, in which victory is found, not through denial of the sinful flesh's existence, but through not obeying it in grace through faith.

 

[JGIG]

Note to the reader:

I'm not here as a huckster for Andrew Farley. He's one of many good resources out there that teach the Word of God well.

Andrew Farley has one particular teaching that applies very well to the OP, and that teaching is what I linked to early on in this thread. Here is is again:

• Hebrews: Part 13 – By His Stripes Or Ours

A really good teaching on the discipline of God and the 'scourging' language used in Hebrews 12.​

It's a very good, encouraging teaching, diving into the language and the character of God as our Father, and agrees with the statement in the OP that God's discipline is training for our future, not punishment for our past.

Instead of either listening to or ignoring the teaching (which is too bad, because it's a really wonderful teaching), folks who disagree with Andrew Farley painted him out to be a heretic using a resource that tells them that Andrew Farley is a heretic.

They brought nothing that Andrew Farley himself teaches to the table to examine, just engaged in second hand heresy hearsay.

I hate that so much time has been spent defending the unsubstantiated attacks on this honorable teacher of the Word. Is Andrew Farley's teaching perfect? No, no one is perfect. Does he teach heresy? No, he does not.

I'm content to keep pointing folks to Jesus and to teachers who point folks to Jesus and let them make up their own minds about what's what.

Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

There used to be a fellow here who over many posts revealed how the flesh is "obliterated". This is what I gathered. I really should go back through his posts and insert links to where all of this is found.

The flesh and the body are considered to be separate and distinct. In other words, mental separation is made between the flesh and the body, which allows for the belief that the body is sinless. The sinful flesh, then, simply becomes an idea that is compartmentalized in the mind and discarded (ignored, denied) because it is the old man that was crucified and no longer exists. This process of denying the existence of sinful flesh and identifying only with the incorruptible spirit and sinless body is what they call the renewing of the mind.

The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament has a good description of this mental dissociation process in which a person only identifies with what they want to be (their identity as the righteousness of GOD), and blots out any consciousness or idea contrary to it (their sin nature).

f. Gnosticism offers a radical solution to the conflict of conscience. It is true that instances are very sparse. But the basic dualistic solution involves a full separation between the two egos. The true I of the Gnostic is identical with the divine world of light, while the other I belongs to the chaotic world and is thus to be abandoned. In the final analysis, then, there is no bad conscience for the Gnostic. Naturally this opens the door not merely to asceticism but also to libertinism.​

Paul talks about the two 'I's (egos) mentioned above in Romans 7-8, in which victory is found, not through denial of the sinful flesh's existence, but through not obeying it in grace through faith.

What on earth does any of that have to do with the OP about the discipline of God?

You're just running around from thread to thread setting up straw men to knock over.

I can't for the life of me figure out why you put so much energy into telling everyone what you think they believe instead of just pointing folks to Christ and letting Him sort it out.

When the Apostles came across false teaching, they didn't go 'round expounding on the ins and outs of the false teachings, they kept speaking Truth in love and pointing people to Jesus, Who He is, What He actually accomplished, and who those who believe in Him are in Him because of what He accomplished.

-JGIG

 

[Lewiz]

This is simply a justification of Farley's heresy. The teaching that some of Christ's words can be ignored is an abomination.

I agree. Farley is a hyper-grace teacher.

 

[Lewiz]

I do not support CHRISTIAN CENSORSHIP. No ONE Christian teacher or preacher is going to teach or preach everything we already know. And not all Christians agree on every single topic from A-Z

But what we all do believe are the foundational truths of the Christian faith and I think that needs to be posted again especially for those who want to censor anyone and everyone who is not like them.

WE BELIEVE

• In one God, who exists in three Persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is loving, holy and just.
• That the Bible is God’s Word. It is inspired and accurate. It is our perfect guide in all matters of life.
• That sin has separated us all from God, and that only through Jesus Christ can we be reconciled to God.
• That Jesus Christ is both God and Man. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He led a sinless life, took all our sins upon Himself, died and rose again. Today, He is seated at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and Mediator.
• That salvation is God’s gift to us. It is available to anyone who confesses the Lord Jesus with their mouth and believes that God has raised Him from death to life.
• That water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of God and a testimony of our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
• That the Holy Spirit is our Comforter. He guides us in all areas of our lives. He also blesses us with spiritual gifts and empowers us to yield the fruit of the Spirit.
• That the Holy Communion is a celebration of Jesus’ death and our remembrance of Him.
• That God wants to transform, heal, and provide for us, so that we can live blessed and victorious lives that will impact and help others.
• That we are called to preach the gospel to all nations.
• That our Lord Jesus Christ is coming back again just as He promised.

If someone is saying the opposite of these truths that our Christian faith is founded on then the word "heresy" applies. Otherwise, it's one man's beliefs over another. And we are here to discuss the Bible not hit people over the head with it.

SDA's believe this too. So does UPC's, except for the first one.

You can believe all this & not even be saved.

It looks good, yet doesn't have much doctrine in it.

The Free gracers, easy believists, hyper-gracers, OSAS'ers, and yes, even the legalists believe this as well.

This post is nothing without true doctrine in it.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

Jesus' discipline isn't a punishment for past sins, but His treatment, in order to prepare our mind, feeling, body and spirit so that we can have conditions to receive the best of Him for us. It is truth that we gather all that we sow (Gal 6.7-9). However, what it will do difference is how we work the reap: we can regret the fails or seek the comfort in Jesus and learn with Him (2Cor 1.3-5) in order that we can help others.

 

[Lewiz]

Every time I read Nehemiah6 unfounded attacks on known Christians. 2 Pet 2:16 (B) comes to mind...

Nehemiah6 HATES much:

Some common misconceptions about God; #58

Nehemiah6 said, Even if his credentials were acceptable, he is a false teacher and that is the bottom line. There are all kinds of theologians, scholars, evangelists, pastors, and teachers who are completely off base and attack the Word of God at every opportunity. When it comes to spiritual matters, academic or other qualifications mean nothing. The apostles were "unlearned men" and we should never forget that.

FlyingDove's comment: Nehemiah6 HATES much! Theologians, scholars, evangelists, pastors. To include: Joseph Prince, Paul Ellis, Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Pat Robertson, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagain. We can now ad Andrew Farley and Jeremy White to his list. I could list as many CC christian posters as well.

Put my name in that list of CC posters, cause I don't value these rich & influential heretics at all.

 

[Lewiz]

Again with that sense of humor of yours!

And I don't believe that you've actually gone to the source and actually listened to anything that Farley teaches, because if you had, I'd expect to see proof of where he preaches a 'Third Covenant'.

You cannot post such a reference because it does not exist.

You've either made that accusation up or are repeating what someone else says about what Farley teaches.

As for your claim that I've tried to degrade you personally, no, that's not the case. I've not called you ignorant, or stupid, or whatever - not one time.

I have, however, called your bluff.

You've engaged in slander against someone you think you disagree with. I'm challenging you to go to the source.

Unfortunately, I'm guessing you've invested too much into torpedoing Farley now that you won't go to the source for fear of being proven to be in error.

It's too bad. Lots of good, orthodox, edifying teaching there.

-JGIG



That's Andrew Farley. He has really, really good series on Romans, Hebrews, and a bunch of other epistles =).

Some particularly good selections:

• Is That Really in the Bible?
• It's Not About You
• Romans - The Gift of Righteousness
• Hebrews
• 1 John
  
• Hot Spots

• Series Page

Enjoy!

-JGIG

As for your claim that I've tried to degrade you personally, no, that's not the case. I've not called you ignorant, or stupid, or whatever - not one time.

Aaand in saying that, she went on to accuse 7seas of slander without any evidence whatsoever while trying to make her look ridiculous.

Nice..... real nice.

All I've read is you saying Farley is great, he preaches good, & teaches true doctrine....... which, BTW, you never proved that either.

Basically, we're supposed to believe you at face value.

I don't do that with anybody.

You must think mighty highly of yourself since all you've said in the whole thread is, "He's great because I said so."

Unfortunately, we who know better don't think so highly of you, because we've seen the way you operate.

 

[Lewiz]

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Let me hear of your unfailing love each morning, for I am trusting you. Show me where to walk, for I give myself to you. Psalm 143:8​

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[TD="class: yiv7111263287x_mobile-hidden, align: center"]Let me hear of your unfailing love each morning, for I am trusting you. Show me where to walk, for I give myself to you. Psalm 143:8

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God’s discipline isn’t PUNISHMENT for past sins!​

The truth about “The chastening of the Lord” is probably the most confusing subject in the church world today. It has kept many believers in fear of something that is intended to bring peace to their lives. We should never be afraid of the Lord’s chastening. Rather, we should invite it into our lives and open our hearts to it. Why? It will help us experience the peace of God.


This short teaching is intended to clear up any misunderstanding or confusion you may have about what “chastening” really is.


God’s discipline isn’t punishment for past sins. It is godly instruction, insight, and wisdom for the future. You see, if God punishes you for past sins, He would have to apologize to Jesus who took our punishment for all sins. Besides, how can God punish you for past sins when He gave you His word, “He would never remember your sins again"? (Hebrews 12:8).


“For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth” (Hebrews 12:6).


If you study the origins of the word “chasten,” you will understand that the Greek word from which it is derived simply means “to train up as a child.” However, over time, translators and some early church fathers reinterpreted the meaning of the word to imply punishment.


Since Jesus showed us the character of His Father, we can easily see that Jesus “chastened” His disciples, but He didn’t punish them. For example, when they passed through Samaria, the Samaritans wouldn’t let Jesus and His disciples spend the night. The disciples were angry about this and asked Jesus if they should call fire down from heaven upon the Samaritans for their egregious insult to them. Jesus responded by correcting – aka chastening them – with truth. He said, “You don’t know what spirit you are of. I didn’t come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”


Let’s read the following verses that describe chastening and show its effects and results.


“If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons” (Hebrews 12:7-8).


God corrects us because He is our Father, and we are His children. A loving father has a responsibility to train and correct His children. Needless to say, this correction isn’t always pleasant. In fact, at times it can create inner turmoil as we make the necessary adjustments to our thoughts and belief systems.


This is what the word “scourging” in verse 6 refers to. No doubt, reevaluating what you once believed or thought to be true can be traumatic. And so, I am sure the disciples were conflicted when Jesus rebuked them for wanting to call fire down to destroy the Samaritans. He pointed out their hearts weren’t seeing things as they should. Jesus also explained to them His purpose wasn’t to destroy people’s lives; it was to save them.


The disciples’ views and beliefs did not align with Jesus’. They believed it was OK to call down judgment if people didn’t do what was expected of them. But Jesus chastened/corrected them for believing what they did. Why? Jesus knew that in the future, a different type of fire would sweep across Samaria saving and delivering the entire city (Acts 8:14-17).
If Jesus didn’t correct the disciples about their wrong views and beliefs, they couldn’t have been used mightily in Samaria.


Let’s keep following this insight into chastening, which the author of Hebrews is helping believers understand.


Furthermore, we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless, afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby (Hebrews 12:9-11).


A comparison is made in the preceding verses between our natural fathers whom we honor and our heavenly Father whose corrections lead us to profitable, fruitful lives where we experience God’s holiness and His peace.


Clearly, the discipline of God isn’t punishment but godly instruction and wisdom for your future. Jesus’ disciples experienced His chastening for their wrong views. They had to realize that their beliefs and purpose were out of sync with what Jesus believed and His purpose. Later, we see the fruit of peace fills the hearts of His disciples as they joyfully went to the same Samaritans they previously wanted to destroy.


We should all crave God’s discipline and never be afraid of it. It will always keep our hearts in peace and produce the fruits of righteousness.


​Devotional by Ed and Laurie Elliot
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Farley in his teachings says "scourge" doesn't mean what it says because of a mixup converting Hebrew to Greek in the book of Hebrews.

This is an absolute lie.

If such were so, many of the newer Bible translators would have caught the error, since "scourge" is such a powerful word to use.

New Living Translation
For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child."

English Standard Version
For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”

Berean Literal Bible
For the Lord disciplines whom He loves, and He scourges every son whom He receives.

New American Standard Bible
FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES."

What all the free gracers don't know is the OT teaches corporal punishment in the Law.

Strong's Concordance

mastigoó: to scourge​

Original Word: μαστιγόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: mastigoó
Phonetic Spelling: (mas-tig-o'-o)
Short Definition: I flog, scourge
Definition: I flog, scourge, the victim being strapped to a pole or frame; met: I chastise.HELPS Word-studies
3146 mastigóō – properly, to whip (scourge) with a mastigos (see 3148/mástiks, a "whip"); to "flog (scourge) a victim, strapped to a pole or frame" (Souter); (figuratively) God sending severe pain in the best eternal interestsof the believer (see Heb 12:6)
Reflection: As in the Lord's dealing with Job, God's purifying love is all-wisewhen we experience temporal suffering. Hence, it always works for our greater eternal gain as we live in faith (Ro 8:18-25,38). For example, God authorized an incredible amount of earthly pain (bringing heavenly gain) in the lives of Jeremiah and John the Baptist.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from mastix
Definition
to scourge
NASB Translation
scourge (4), scourged (2), scourges (1).Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3146: μαστιγόω

μαστιγόω, μαστίγω, 3 person singular μαστιγοῖ; future μαστιγώσω; 1 aorist ἐμαστιγωσα; (μάστιξ); from Herodotus down; the Sept. chiefly for הִכָּה; to scourge; properly: τινα, Matthew 10:17; Matthew 20:19; Matthew 23:34; Mark 10:34; Luke 18:33; John 19:1; (cf. B. D. under the word ; Farrar, St. Paul, vol. i. excurs. xi.). metaphorically, of God as a father chastising and training men as children by afflictions: Hebrews 12:6; cf. Jeremiah 5:3; Proverbs 3:12; Judith 8:27.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
scourge.From mastix; to flog (literally or figuratively) -- scourge.
see GREEK mastix
Forms and Transliterations
εμαστιγώθησαν εμαστίγωσας εμαστίγωσε εμαστιγωσεν ἐμαστίγωσεν μαστιγοι μαστιγοί μαστιγοῖ μαστιγοίς μαστιγουμένου μαστιγωθείς μαστιγωθήσονται μαστιγωσαι μαστιγώσαι μαστιγῶσαι μαστιγωσαντες μαστιγώσαντες μαστιγωσετε μαστιγώσετε μαστιγωσουσιν μαστιγώσουσιν μεμαστιγωμένος μεμαστίγωνται μεμαστίγωσαι emastigosen emastigōsen emastígosen emastígōsen mastigoi mastigoî mastigosai mastigôsai mastigōsai mastigō̂sai mastigosantes mastigōsantes mastigṓsantes mastigosete mastigōsete mastigṓsete mastigosousin mastigōsousin mastigṓsousin

Everywhere in the NT where scourge is used, it is the same Greek word.

Scourging is punishment, is chastisement, is discipline.

 

[JGIG]

Aaand in saying that, she went on to accuse 7seas of slander without any evidence whatsoever while trying to make her look ridiculous.

Nice..... real nice.

7seas did slander Farley, while claiming that she went to Farley's site and had listened to some of Farley's teachings, yet she posted her proof from Paul M. Elliott's site. Go back and see.

All I've read is you saying Farley is great, he preaches good, & teaches true doctrine....... which, BTW, you never proved that either.

Basically, we're supposed to believe you at face value.

That's why I posted links to Farley's site and some of what I consider to be representative of his teachings so that folks can make up their own minds.

I don't do that with anybody.

I wouldn't expect you or anyone else to do that. That's why I posted the links .

You must think mighty highly of yourself since all you've said in the whole thread is, "He's great because I said so."

I didn't say he was great because I said so. I posted links to a few of his teachings so that folks could check him out for themselves. SEVERAL TIMES.

Unfortunately, we who know better don't think so highly of you, because we've seen the way you operate.

If you're offended by me providing proof for my assertions and links so that folks can evaluate and check out what Farley actually says, well, I can live with that.

Here are the links again for anyone who's interested. Thanks for the opportunity to post them again!

That's Andrew Farley. He has really, really good series on Romans, Hebrews, and a bunch of other epistles =).

Some particularly good selections:

• Is That Really in the Bible?
• It's Not About Yout
• Romans - The Gift of Righteousness
• Hebrews
• 1 John
• Hot Spots

• Series Page

Oh, and here's the teaching that has to do with the OP. It's a very encouraging and edifying look at the language regarding the discipline of God as taught in Hebrews 12:

• Hebrews: Part 13 – By His Stripes Or Ours

Enjoy!

-JGIG

 

[joaniemarie]

Agreed, PennEd, there is value in the Lord's Prayer.

Every element that you speak of is also not only touched on, but expanded in the Epistles.

The Apostles put what Jesus said into a New Covenant context - Be content and thankful in all circumstances because His grace is sufficient, and imparting to us that God is able to do more than we could ask or imagine, and yes - that we forgive others BUT not to receive forgiveness, but BECAUSE we are forgiven.

There is a distinct difference pre and post Cross, and goes to a core essential doctrine of the Christian faith, and that is salvation by faith in Christ and not salvation by works:

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (from Mt. 6)


32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. (from Eph. 4)


12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. (from Col. 3)​

Again, it comes down to rightly dividing the Word and grasping what was accomplished at the Cross.

Jesus clearly taught - before the Cross - preaching Law to those under Law - that in order to be forgiven, you HAD TO forgive. If you didn't, neither would the Father forgive you.

After the Cross, the Apostles clearly say that because you are forgiven - because in Christ, God FORGAVE you - forgive others AS the Lord forgave you. It's a complete paradigm shift without contradicting what Jesus taught before the Cross.

What Christ did at the Cross MATTERED. It ACCOMPLISHED things. The Resurrection. The Ascension. Christ's High Priesthood. They ALL MATTER!

If what Christ did didn't matter, why then the Cross? Why not simply continue on the same way?


In my opinion, the following flows out of the spirit of the Lord's Prayer, but expands on what Christ accomplished by His Works of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His Perfect High Priesthood:

14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen. (from Eph. 3)​

\o/ \o/ \o/
​

-JGIG

This is a beautiful post and I want to re post it to spread the blessing!!

 

[joaniemarie]

This thread is not about any preachers or teachers., it's about discussing the discipline of the Lord and what it's about and what it's not about. The preachers and teachers used are many and varied.

I welcome anyone posting what they think about this topic but remember this is not about arguing regarding the preachers and teachers individual posters use and why and how anyone should disregard their opinions on the subject. That is totally -- off topic.

And Ben.... your sense of humor is TOTALLY APPRECIATED and may your numbers increase here on cc.

 

[joaniemarie]

That would indeed be a tragedy.

Sad thing is that some, pushed to the extreme, have actually done such to themselves (and worse) to try to 'get right' or 'stay right' with God.







-JGIG

That is so true JGIG people actually believe that it pleases God to put injury onto ourselves to prove to Him how sincere we are!

They don't realize... and I hope by us other Christians who have been through some of this can share with them; the LOVE of God in Christ and the POWER of the blood of Jesus is what God looks at. And what we have to look at as our only way to please God.

The Bible and the Holy Spirit always point us to Jesus. It's not our sacrafice but HIS. It's not our goodness but HIS. It is because of Jesus that we live and move and have our being. Gal.2:20

[SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yet you didn't quote from Dr. Andrew Farley's About Page (https://andrewfarley.org/about/), you quoted from Dr. Paul M. Elliott's page, and Elliott's page classifies Farley's teaching as heresy.





This is from AndrewFarley.org:

My Biography

I grew up in Warrenton, Virginia on a horse farm called Summerfield Farm. My father Guy Farley was an attorney and later worked in the hotel business. My mother Leslie Farley was a schoolteacher and later a Christian counselor. She still lives in Virginia where my brother Will and my sister Amanda also reside.

I attended high school at Emmanuel Christian School in Manassas, VA. I earned my bachelor’s degree at Furman University, my master’s degree at University of Georgia, and my doctorate at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

Over the last two decades, I have served as a professor of linguistics at University of Notre Dame and at Texas Tech University. I also serve as lead pastor of Church Without Religion here in west Texas.

My Family

I have been married to my wife, Katharine, for sixteen years. We have one son, Gavin, and we live in west Texas. In our free time, we all enjoy snow sports, watersports, and travel together.
​

Andrew Farley was never a Catholic, but was brought up in Evangelicism.

But you would know that, if you had really listened to his stuff.

Here's Andrew Farley's website, again: Andrew Farley Ministries



-JGIG

for the record, I agree that Farley teaches heresy.

so I don't need any correction on that. Farley does teach heresy as can be viewed from the quotes fro one of his books

people can read, JGIG, so they know what I posted as do you

what we have here, is a disagreement about your recommendations of him as a teacher

you choose to give your approval to someone I consider a heretic

you have tried to convince us all that he is not a heretic, but as I already said, we can all read what he teaches

you have been diligent in attemtping to convince people otherwise, but you only succeed with those who already agree with you so actually no convincing of anyone

as a number of us have already stated, he falls into the category of a topic we are not supposed to discuss, you know full well what this is, but in case you don't, I will refer to it here:

Good morning ,

it has been a long - suffering and very patient with many in here pertaining to the topic of "hyper-grace" and those who seem to bring this topic up in every post no matter what the thread maybe . Moderators have addressed the issues with some in Bible discussion forum pertaining to this Subject " hyper-grace". We have received more submissions of infractions due to this topic. And the same names keep coming up. Moderators have asked what is hyper grace and where do you stand on the subject? those who were asked have provided their understanding. Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.
Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue . And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it. remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.

God bless,

very respectfully,

CS1

I'm really not sure why you dispute what I posted since it is common knowledge. I never said Farley was Catholic so I am also not sure why you waste everyone's time indicated that, again, since we all can read and anyone can read what I posted so everyone knows I never said that. but whatever

we can also read the excerpts from his book The Naked Gospel

I'll just repost that in the next post because this one is getting long. Long long posts are pretty much not going to be read here

including your lengthy post with your preferred personal statements

 

[7seasrekeyed]

here are direct quotes from Farley's book, The Naked Gospel

now some here get upset when your reference these things because they are not going to reference these things because they know full well many do not agree with Farley's personal interpretations of Jesus teachings and for that matter pretty much the gospels as a whole

from Farley's so called questionnaire...in his own words so people saying I have not actually quoted him are not correct

Farley's True/False Quiz
Farley's "challenge" takes the form of a true/false "gospel quiz" near the beginning of The Naked Gospel. He says that if you answer "true" to any of these statements about sin and salvation, you are wrong. You suffer from what he calls "obsessive-Christianity disorder."

• "Christians should ask God to forgive and cleanse them when they sin."

​

• ​False, says Farley. On pages 149 and following, he claims that 1 John 1:9 is a salvation verse, and does not apply to believers. On page 160 he claims that no Christian need ever pray, "forgive us our trespasses," because Jesus' model prayer is "an Old Covenant prayer taught to Jews before once-for-all forgiveness was accomplished." Farley ignores the fact that First John chapter one is addressed to believers in Christ, not unbelievers, and he frequently confuses the covenants.
  
  

 

[7seasrekeyed]

and another

"Christians struggle with sin because of their old self within." Wrong again, says Farley. On page 104 he says, "The moment we enter into Christ at salvation, our old self is obliterated." He severely twists Paul's discussion of the conflict between the old and new natures in Romans 6 and 7.

we do not automatically change

Farley leaves out sanctification and inserts his own false teachings. he is very good at it


I hope the childish accusation of slander against Farley are not repeated.

what this is, is one person thinking Farley is a good teacher, and another, myself, who believes he is heretical in his approach to the Gospel

hyperbole with regards to slander etc etc is just nonsense

this thread is just another representation of how far in another direction from the Bible certain teachers are going

anyone can choose to believe Farley and anyone can choose to indicate otherwise