Eli, Eli, lama Sabachthani?

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Not necessarily.

Who were the spirits that the Lord preached to in 1 Peter 3? If the wages of sin was spiritual death there shouldn't have been anyone to preach to. They would be spiritually dead.

Right?

Spiritually dead is not a dead spirit though, its the nature of the kind of dead in respects to a person (who has a spirit)

Being "spiritually dead" can be a person who can be alive (physically so) because they have their own spirit in their body (alive in that one sense) but might be dead to God (or as one without the Spirit of God) in another.

Since the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God and in Him we are alive from the dead (spiritually speaking) because we were not physically dead (carnally speaking) since we still have our own spirit in us (these bodies) we are able to walk around in (just dead to God) or have not the Spirit of God.

Being as one who is dead (after a carnal truth) would have neither their own spirit (or His Spirit) in them as the body (itself) without their own alone would be physically (or carnally) dead.

Jesus said let "the dead burying the dead". That was in the context of a man wanting to bury his own father before following Christ. In saying what Jesus said that even shows the ability of certain dead (spiritually so) can take it upon themselves to bury the other kind of dead (carnally so).

I just call the one "spiritually" dead (which just adresses the nature of the kind of dead one might be looking at, even in the scripture). The other one is pretty obvious, but might add the word "carnally so" to the word dead just to distinguish from the first. But again, its speaking of the nature of the kind of dead one might be talking about.

Is that person dead (carnally) needing to call a coroner (body without their own spirit) or is the person dead (spiritually) who can walk around in their own body (but has not the Spirit of Christ in them)?

Both are dead regardless (as they are both called dead) even as Jesus words were, "let the dead bury their dead".

Its simply the nature of what kind of dead he could be speaking of (as either one can pertain to any particular person at some point in time).

At least Jesus shows dead men walking (who can use shovels) to bury other dead men who cannot walk anymore .

 

[4enlightment]

Luke 15:24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

This person was at first spiritually dead, not conscious of his actions; but through suffering, he became alive.

 

[coby]

Luke 23:46 KJV - "And when Jesus cried with a loud voice, he said, Father into thy hands I commend my spirit: And having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Christ did not die spiritually!

No they said in my church He died spiritually because on the cross He was seperated from the Father. That they call spiritual death. I don't even know if His Spirit was seperated. He was not spiritually dead, that would mean He sinned. He didn't put our sins on His Spirit. We died with Christ. We were dead spiritually and then our spirit died with Him? Makes absolutely no sense.
Our old man died, the flesh, not the old spirit, that was already dead. The soul that sins must die. The soul of the flesh is in the blood. He took our sins in His body. His soul He gave as an offering for sin.

 

[coby]

Btw way He preached to the spirits in prison in the power of the Spirit, so He was not seperated from the Spirit after He died.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

CHAPTER AND VERSE!

John 19: [SUP]28 [/SUP]After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” [SUP]29 [/SUP]Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. [SUP]30 [/SUP]So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.


Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If Jesus Who knew all things were complete. and who said, "it is finished" Which in the greek literally means "paid in full" (A Judicial term which means a person has paid his or her debt to society)

then how can physical death be the payment.. You have Jesus paying for sin AFTER he said all things were accomplished, and the payment of sin was complete.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Luke 23:46 KJV - "And when Jesus cried with a loud voice, he said, Father into thy hands I commend my spirit: And having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Christ did not die spiritually!

If he did not. Your still dead..As am I.

PERIOD

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He died on the cross (in the flesh)

Although death (in a spiritual sense) doesnt mean you dont have a spirit, its the nature of the death not the death of the spirit.

all it means was their was a barrier between him and the father, that barrier was your and MY SIN.. He paid the price..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not necessarily.

Who were the spirits that the Lord preached to in 1 Peter 3? If the wages of sin was spiritual death there shouldn't have been anyone to preach to. They would be spiritually dead.

Right?

Your not understanding our view of what spiritually dead means.. No. this is not true.. A spirit will always be conscious,, Saying it is dead means it has no spiritual life. It is seperated from God and can not relate to or with God..


I was born physically alive, yet spiritually dead.. I had to be born again to be made alive in Christ.. My Spirit, which was dead, was made alive..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No they said in my church He died spiritually because on the cross He was seperated from the Father. That they call spiritual death. I don't even know if His Spirit was seperated. He was not spiritually dead, that would mean He sinned.

Or it would mean, My Sin was placed on his body, And he suffered my punishment so I could be made alive in him (also called redemption)

He didn't put our sins on His Spirit. We died with Christ. We were dead spiritually and then our spirit died with Him? Makes absolutely no sense.
Our old man died, the flesh, not the old spirit, that was already dead. The soul that sins must die. The soul of the flesh is in the blood. He took our sins in His body. His soul He gave as an offering for sin.

This does not make sense. How did Jesus pay for our sin if he did not suffer the penalty of sin we deserve?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Btw way He preached to the spirits in prison in the power of the Spirit, so He was not seperated from the Spirit after He died.

He was never seperated from the spirit. that is not what spiritual death means, And his spiritual death occured BEFORE his physical death and he went to the spirits in prison.

 

[PeterJens]

If Jesus Who knew all things were complete. and who said, "it is finished" Which in the greek literally means "paid in full" (A Judicial term which means a person has paid his or her debt to society)

"It is finished" is Jesus on the cross saying He has accomplished everything. Now he could not say this after he died, so he said it knowing he was about to die, saying there was nothing left to do other than his own death.

Using this as justification that his physical death was not the significant point is semantics.
Spiritual death is talking about an finite debt of everyones sin being paid by an infinite life. But if the whole point is not an equation like mathematics but a pure demonstration of love and forgiveness, from the judge himself, as the healing balm of the consequences of sin, distrust and rebellion, bitterness and anger.

Now we are called to give our lives for others in the same way as Christ. This is not some superspiritual equation carrying sin etc. it is the ultimate display of love for another, saying you matter more than my own life, because I am secure in Christ. I suspect for you this is not a frame of reference you accept but are wrapped up in religious definitions, rather than brutal empathy and love.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"It is finished" is Jesus on the cross saying He has accomplished everything. Now he could not say this after he died, so he said it knowing he was about to die, saying there was nothing left to do other than his own death.

So Jesus lied. Jesus just got done paying for my sin, then he committed a major sin himself and lied.

If this were true we would not be talking about his resurrection.

These are johns words, Inspired by God..

John 19: [SUP]28 [/SUP]After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” [SUP]29 [/SUP]Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. [SUP]30 [/SUP]So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

The word accomplished means complete. It is also in the perfect tense. Sorry, I do not know who told you this stuff. But it is just not true. Not only do they call Jesus a liar. But the apostle John and Holy Spirit liars also.

Using this as justification that his physical death was not the significant point is semantics.
Spiritual death is talking about an finite debt of everyones sin being paid by an infinite life. But if the whole point is not an equation like mathematics but a pure demonstration of love and forgiveness, from the judge himself, as the healing balm of the consequences of sin, distrust and rebellion, bitterness and anger.

His physical death does not significants.

1. It allowed for the ressurection
2. This proves to all mankind the father accepted his payment in full ("it is finished")
3. He was called the firstfruits, As he lives, so we live also..

Now we are called to give our lives for others in the same way as Christ. This is not some superspiritual equation carrying sin etc. it is the ultimate display of love for another, saying you matter more than my own life, because I am secure in Christ. I suspect for you this is not a frame of reference you accept but are wrapped up in religious definitions, rather than brutal empathy and love.

Yeah i know, you continue to prove you lack knowledge of what I believe.

God said no greater love has anyone than to Give his life.. Jesus giving his spiritual life was the greatest sacrifice this universe has ever, and will ever see.. And his physical death is a close second. Considering who he was!.,

I know you do not trust the cross. Because you do not think "it is finished" because if it was. Salvation (weternal life) would be secure.. And you reject this fact of the gospel

 

[PeterJens]

A small side note - when people want to point out what they are not, it often means that is the very thing they are most scared of, which indicates that is the very thing they are doing but have walled it off from their life and are projecting this "hated" attitude on to others.

I am religious, ie I believe in God, and Jesus. Religion has always been the definition of people who follow a relationship with the super-natural. To say you are not religious means atheist, but again it actually is often a belief in naturalism as the source of existence, which is a kind of buddhism in one philosophical sense.

Righteousness and sin are linked to Jesus and Yaweh, which is why there is law and morality. But again some groups deny they are under any rules, yet admit they fail everyday, which means they actually follow a set of rules often defined by the believer themselves. I call this kind of language a mirage, because it is not honest and open, but just about hatred of a certain view of religious belief and a denial of anything they feel is associated with it, even though it is implicit in any kind of faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A small side note - when people want to point out what they are not, it often means that is the very thing they are most scared of, which indicates that is the very thing they are doing but have walled it off from their life and are projecting this "hated" attitude on to others.

I am religious, ie I believe in God, and Jesus. Religion has always been the definition of people who follow a relationship with the super-natural. To say you are not religious means atheist, but again it actually is often a belief in naturalism as the source of existence, which is a kind of buddhism in one philosophical sense.

Righteousness and sin are linked to Jesus and Yaweh, which is why there is law and morality. But again some groups deny they are under any rules, yet admit they fail everyday, which means they actually follow a set of rules often defined by the believer themselves. I call this kind of language a mirage, because it is not honest and open, but just about hatred of a certain view of religious belief and a denial of anything they feel is associated with it, even though it is implicit in any kind of faith.

Being religious does not make you a righteous person. or saved. The pharisees found this out the hard way, if not in life, then in death when they woke up in Hades.

There is a difference between THINKING you are righteous by the rules religion wants to follow. And KNOWING you are not righteous by the very Law God gave..

Religion says here are the rules. You must follow them or else. But the rules they demand one must follow are far short of what God demands we follow. And God says we must be perfect, he made Moses and the children of Israel make an oath to be perfect or admit they are under a curse (the law) and paul reiterated it in Gal 3.

Religion says God, Look at me..(like the jews did)

Christianity says God look at your son. (have mercy on me, a sinner)

 

[coby]

Or it would mean, My Sin was placed on his body, And he suffered my punishment so I could be made alive in him (also called redemption)


This does not make sense. How did Jesus pay for our sin if he did not suffer the penalty of sin we deserve?

The penalty is the soul that sins must die, it's in Leviticus. The soul. His soul died, His human part, His ego that was tempted by the devil. His Spirit is eternal and holy and God and can't die.
Do you believe He was only seperated at the cross? I think so dunno, don't think the Father and Holy Spirit were in Him but I don't think that's spiritual death, yeah maybe, being seperated.
What Copeland says that He fought the devil in hell makes no sense. He was there in the Holy Spirit and immediately after He gave His Spirit in His hands the dead rose and there was an earth quake.
The seed must fall in the ground and die. The seed doesn't die though, only the outer part.
This way our fleshly sin nature could die with Him.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Luke 23:46 KJV - "And when Jesus cried with a loud voice, he said, Father into thy hands I commend my spirit: And having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Christ did not die spiritually!

Jesus was a real man with a real human spirit as all men have. The problem folks have with this is because we have focused on Jesus divinity almost to the point of denying His humanity.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Not necessarily.

Who were the spirits that the Lord preached to in 1 Peter 3? If the wages of sin was spiritual death there shouldn't have been anyone to preach to. They would be spiritually dead.

Right?

If you don't agree that natural man is spiritually dead as a result of sin, then of course the rest will make no sense to you.

Spiritual death is the absence of the presence of the spiritual life of God in the spirit of man.

 

[Grandpa]

Jesus was a real man with a real human spirit as all men have. The problem folks have with this is because we have focused on Jesus divinity almost to the point of denying His humanity.

I think the term spiritual death that you guys use is mis-leading.

It apparently doesn't mean death, its not permanent, and only applies to whether a person is separated from God or not.


Even then, with this narrow mis-leading definition, I haven't seen any scriptures that show the Lord Jesus Christ was separated from God.

 

[Grandpa]

The term "It is Finished" would probably have just as much controversy and argument as Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani.

 

[Grandpa]

How many times did the Lord appear to say one thing to the carnal mind and something entirely different to Christians?

I'm thinking of His statement to Peter where He calls him petros and on this rock I build my church.

A cursory, carnal understanding of this statement would be Peter is the rock that the Lord Jesus Christ is building His Church.

But Christians come to understand that the Revelation of Christ is the Rock that the Lord is building His Church.


This is exactly what is happening with the statement Eli, Eli, Llama Sabachthani.