Romans 9 Calvin vs freewill

[Bookends]

Even in Isreals rebellion. God promised to keep the seed. through a remnant. Notice here Isreal should have been destroyed because of her rebelion. But God kept them alive through a remnant. His promise did not fail, it still stands.

Very good EG, but you know me...I take issue with this. Yes, God's promise did not fail and still stands, but with not with a physical seed (natural Israel) but with the spiritual seed (all saints saved by faith in Christ, before and after the cross). So while God did destroy Jerusalem and Israel the apostate physical nation in which all the types, anti-types and shadows that pointed to and were fulfilled in Christ upon the cross and in 70 AD, He saved the true Remnant, the continuation of true and faithful Israel, a spiritual Israel namely the Church.

2 Peter 1
7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
“The stone which the builders rejected,
This became the very corner stone,”

8 and,
“A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense”;

for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.


Peter quotes this from Moses, of this very Nation Moses proclaimed of Israel
Exodus 19:6
and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.”


Wow, what a striking resemblance don't you think? God always had one people for Himself.



Anyway, good job...I love yah brother.

 

[tek]

Does the bible say that or that He took away the sins of the WORLD?

the bible says

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

"whoever" means anyone whether predestined or not

 

[eternally-gratefull]

how can a sinner sin unless God predestined his heart?

because it is natural to him.. why else would he sin. Are you serious??

 

[PatientSpirit]

You just misunderstand some key concepts or ignore some verses

Romans 7:16-20 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is , in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do . Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

This is true of EVERY MAN. You say that you sin. This is why.

 

[tek]

because it is natural to him../quote]

Isn't God who made his nature in the first place
So it is God who is responsible for him being a sinner and his sin

 

[tek]

This is true of EVERY MAN. You say that you sin. This is why.

that's right every man has free will

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's that very same text that proves. If I made a coffee machine for the purpose of making coffee, should I then expect that machine to make bread? Of course not! It can only make coffee!

Then explain jer 18 to me. How did the mold become bad in the potters hand?

Why did Jesus tell Isreal he wanted (his will) to gather them in his arms, but they were not willing? Are you compairing yourself to a coffee machine? There is your problem..

Now you say that there was nothing AN ALL POWERFUL God could do to change pharaoh's mind, and yet I'm sure that somewhere in one of your posts you have stated that without God's intervention, you would be as hardened as pharaoh.

God could have forced pharaoh to believe, but what would that make god out to be?

God made pharaoh to make known His power. This was pharaoh's job like the coffee machine. He could ONLY do what he was made to do which again, was to make God's power known.

lol. Yep he did. But in unbelief, Pharoah did not get it. He wanted to be God. and thought he was God, and was more powerfull. He did not change even after his army was destroyed. That is why pride keeps us from believing in God. as Paul said in romans 1

 

[PatientSpirit]

This is true of EVERY MAN. You say that you sin. This is why.

To add to this using an example in discussion yesterday, one knows it's wrong to steal, but by being subjected to the vanity of needing food to live, he may steal to feed himself or his family.

 

[tek]

You say that you sin. This is why.

You just misunderstand some key concepts or ignore some verses

Romans 7:16-20 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is , in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do . Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 

[Bookends]

The bibles speaks of only two groups of people. The people reject Christ and the people who receives Christ. This is how I would interpret the text you provided within the whole context of Scripture.

C.S. Lewis says it well, There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way."

Read more at C. S. Lewis Quotes - BrainyQuote
​

 

[PatientSpirit]

Isn't God who made his nature in the first place
So it is God who is responsible for him being a sinner and his sin

that's right every man has free will

Need I say more?

 

[tek]

Need I say more?

that was like a question to you, r you serios?

 

[tek]

Need I say more?

If God is the one who made sinner's nature
Then God is responsible for him being a sinner and his sin

This makes a contradiction which you just don't see for some reason

 

[PatientSpirit]

You just misunderstand some key concepts or ignore some verses

Romans 7:16-20 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is , in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do . Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Could you please stop making the words so big? Lol, I'm on a tiny phone.


So it's not you or I who does it, but the sin that dwells in the flesh. Is not jack the ripper the same?

 

[tek]

...by being subjected to the vanity.

how can he be subjected to vanity unless God hardens his heart and subject him to it in the first place
So God is responsible for his sin
You make God to be a sinner by your theology
You just don’t see it
I am just speechless

 

[PatientSpirit]

that was like a question to you, r you serios?

I know you asked a question, but how can I answer a man who says that God is responsible for making the nature of a sinner and to then say that the sinner God has made then has the free will not to sin.

 

[tek]

So it's not you or I who does it, but the sin that dwells in the flesh. Is not jack the ripper the same?

now read two parts together

Romans 7:16-20 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is , in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do . Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 

[PatientSpirit]

how can he be subjected to vanity unless God hardens his heart and subject him to it in the first place
So God is responsible for his sin
You make God to be a sinner by your theology
You just don’t see it
I am just speechless

Do you know what vanity is?

 

[PatientSpirit]

now read two parts together

Romans 7:16-20 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is , in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do . Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Instead of using the verse, simply tell me what this means to you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The bibles speaks of only two groups of people. The people reject Christ and the people who receives Christ. This is how I would interpret the text you provided within the whole context of Scripture.

C.S. Lewis says it well, There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way."

Read more at C. S. Lewis Quotes - BrainyQuote
​

I like how John said it. Those who believe in him are not condemned. But those who do not believe are condemned already because they have not believed in Christ.

thus there are two types of people

those who have faith in Christ. and those who do not